State Of The Team

[Krangodnzr]

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No matter what...Solar just sticks with the "Cardinals suck" party line even if it isn't true.

That 2015 line was decent, but didn't have a single player as good as Humphries OR Hudson. Maybe Iupati, but that dude was always getting hurt and was making Pro Bowls at that point based purely on reputation.

 

[Krangodnzr]

For whatever losses the Rams had there though, they've become enormously better at the most important position on the field, QB. And they have a very strong running game, plus enough elite or really good defenders to get by. If you'd rather be in our position than theirs (this year at least), I'm not sure why.


Yep. I'd challenge anyone extolling how many close games we had to go back and look at the Steve Wilks year and see just how close we were to being .500 with a few points here or there.

And they (the Rams) lost their starting center who was a competent center, which isn't really an easy position to replace. And Andrew Whitworth is THIRTY NINE...AND Stafford really isnt worth what they threw at him....he's the older Jared Goff.

John Johnson was probably their third best defender. You don't get better by constantly letting good players get away.

No granted, they do have Jordan Fuller on the roster and he looked good at times, but Johnson is a Pro Bowl caliber player.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

on defensive ranking/ performance: absolute performance also has high variance year to year. Of the top five teams in defense in a given year, at least three of them wont be top 5 the next. Nearly all of them will give up more yards in the next year, a healthy majority will also give up more points. I feel its a certainty that the 2021 Rams defense wont be as good as the 2020 version.



not withstanding Golliday: the Lions put good people around Stafford on offense. so while their defense was putrid, that also suggests ample opportunity for fourth quarters vs soft zone defenses that inflate passing stats. Stafford finished 15th in QBR. There is evidence that he is a middle of the pack Qb. An at 32 years old, will get worse each year going forward not better.

(and context: i am making the bearish case)

Stafford did not have quality surrounding him. Marvin jones was his beat wr last year and the rbs were as pedestrian as they can be.

 

[Cheesebeef]

No matter what...Solar just sticks with the "Cardinals suck" party line even if it isn't true.

That 2015 line was decent, but didn't have a single player as good as Humphries OR Hudson. Maybe Iupati, but that dude was always getting hurt and was making Pro Bowls at that point based purely on reputation.

decent? nah. You don't have the #2 offense in points and #1 offense in yards with just a decent line. Individually, no one may have been at the level of Humphries or Hudson, but as a UNIT they were among the best in the league. They were #6th in the league in sacks given up, giving Palmer enough time for a high powered passing attack and somehow made Chris Johnson's quickly rotting corpse lead the league in rushing before his body broke down on him and then didn't skip a beat but actually got better with DJ after.

I think people forget how much of a juggernaut that offense was before in the running regular season MVP Palmer went choke-artist Playoff Palmer.

This year's line has 3/5s of the line set with good to very good players, but mediocrity at best at RT and a big goose-egg on G. Remains to be seen if the right side of the line can hold up it's end of the bargain to make the unit as good as 2015.

Bottom line this for me... do you think we're going to have the best or second best offense in the league in both yards and points this year? Because that's the comparison with the 2015 offense.

 

[oaken1]

Pretty sure we ain’t gonna go .500

the team is a little better if guys stay healthy
But the schedule is much tougher

I don’t think it’s a net loss but it isn’t much of a gain

that being said.... if Kyler and KK take the next step.... just the addition of the new kicker should get us a couple more wins

I can see them pulling off 10-7
But a couple injuries and seeing 5-12 is just as easy

hell who knows.... the organization needs fundamental changes and we haven’t seen any of that so they will stay the same
Bottom 25% team with an occasional bounce that gets them into the playoffs
Pretty sure this year will be the bounce..... why?

because it’s the Cardinals way

with a big bounce everything will look bright and rosey.... so they will sign Kyler to a mahomes-esque 50 mil+ contract which will hamper the team from adding new players once our outlying over achievers plummet back to earth....

then we’ll spend the next ten plus years watching the Kyler Murray show as his high flying antics propel us to season after season of 9-8 and just missing the wild card

 

[BritCard]

Lot of fake news on this post.

We had David Johnson and Chis Johnson at RB in 2015. I'd obviously rather have those guys.

We had Fitz, John Brown (65 rec./1003 yds/7 TDs) and Michael Floyd (52/849/6) as the receivers. We'd be lucky to have Green and Kirk achieve those numbers this year.

You prefer our current group of OLBSs of Chandler Jones, old Markus Golden and ???? over Dwight Freeney, young Markus Golden, and Alex Okafor (who is still playing in the NFL)? C'mon.

You're confusing ability with output. As proven by the careers of most of those guys after that season (or before and after in Freeney's case). A guy who had 4 sacks combined the 2 previous years and 6 combined the 2 years after. Compared to the 8 he had in 11 games for that team.

Do I prefer 31 year old Chandler Jones to 36 year old ghost of Freeney? Sure I do. Golden had 4 sacks that year as a rookie. Even last year he had 4.5, and 10 the year before. Alex Okafor had 2 sacks in 2015. Gardeck had 7 in 90 snaps last year. So yeah, I prefer the current bunch. You're just looking at that team with rose tinted glasses on.

2015 Golden and Okafor were nothing special. Floyd washed out of the league after that year. John Brown has had one 1000 yard season since then, and has averaged about 40 yards a game played.

Put Kirk in that 2015 team and he gets 1000 yards.

My whole point is that we aren't lacking talent. We just don't use it very well.

 

[BritCard]

Our divisional opponents(Rams/Niners) now are also much better than what they were then. Seahawks are about the same.

This is true.

 

[BritCard]

Comparing this offense to the 2015 offense is really a joke.

QB:
2015 had an MVP level Carson Palmer at QB.

2021 has Kyler who's got all the potential in the world, but fell off a cliff the second half of last season. Whether that was because of injury or teams catching up to us remains to be seen.

WR:
2015 Had one of the best WR groups in the league. A healthy HOFer at the end of his prime, a healthy burner who could rip the roof off a Defense and a big possession WR, again, all whom were healthy, dependable and in their prime. Also had Nelson as a 4th WR who could occassionally take a team deep.

This offense has a HOF WR... and nothing else dependable.

The idea that it's a push here is laughable.

OL:

2015 - they consistently opened up holes no matter what running back was in there. And they consistently gave Palmer time to throw. They were solid across the line. No gaping holes like we still have at G or mediocre at best at T. Veldheer was very good that season. Massie was solid.

2021: Humphries is at Veldheer level, Hudson is better than the C in 2015, Pugh is fine and then there's a gaping hole at the other G and a mediocre RT.

Until 2021 shows they can open up massive holes the way 2015's did for guys like Chris Johnson on his last legs.

RB:

2015: We had great depth at RB with Chris Johnson, Ellington and a killer DJ who exploded at the end of the season.

2021: Do I even need to make an argument here?

TE:

2015 and 2021 both stink.

That was a GREAT offense with incredible balance. Last year's offense was Kyler carrying the weight of the world on his shoulders... and when one shoulder couldn't take it, the offense crumbled off it.

That said, the defense this year could be better. 2015's secondary squashes 2021's, but the LBers and pass rush that year were pathetic. Always thought our defensive ranking in 2015 was a mirage.

Again, this is confusing output with individual talent. That 2015 team had great output because it was well managed. Sure, it had talent, but the coaching, game plays, play calling and leadership from both players and coaches was much better.

This roster has as much talent on it as the 2015 team, this year it does anyway. But will it have all those things I just mentioned that means it has the output it should?

 

[BritCard]

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One season does not make a player

 

[daves]

For whatever losses the Rams had there though, they've become enormously better at the most important position on the field, QB

Really? I mean, obviously the Rams thought so to give up so much to get Stafford, but... Stafford has a career 89.9 passer rating (96.3 last year), while Goff has a career 91.5 rating (90.0 last year). McVay obviously thinks Stafford is a better fit for his system, and i've always liked Stafford, but he's never been a winner in big games or prime time games. I'm in the "wait and see" camp regarding whether he'll be "enormously" or just marginally better.

...dave

 

[oaken1]

Really? I mean, obviously the Rams thought so to give up so much to get Stafford, but... Stafford has a career 89.9 passer rating (96.3 last year), while Goff has a career 91.5 rating (90.0 last year). McVay obviously thinks Stafford is a better fit for his system, and i've always liked Stafford, but he's never been a winner in big games or prime time games. I'm in the "wait and see" camp regarding whether he'll be "enormously" or just marginally better.

...dave

Yup

stafford is a gun slinger so they add that element to their offense but it won’t necessarily tilt the meter on the win-loss column in their favor

 

[BullheadCardFan]

I think people forget how much of a juggernaut that offense was before in the running regular season MVP Palmer went choke-artist Playoff Palmer.

Vivid memories of Playoff Palmer, ugh

 

[Garthshort]

This is true.

I'd say that is true IF Trey Lance is VG. And any objective appraisal would conclude is that we just don't know.

 

[Garthshort]

Most would say we still need:
1. A #2 CB
2. A #3 RB
3. A #1/2 TE
And I expect SK to get all three before the season starts.

 

[Gandhi]

Gandhi, JMO, but at RG (Murray/Winters) and at RT (Beachum/Jones) should be okay. They weren't bad last year and the addition of Winters, plus the extra year's experience for Jones should make them better. And most posters on this board seem to think highly of the OL coach.

I certainly understand your thinking. I have no concerns at all about the left side, and I thought Kelvin Beachum was very solid last season. I would not worry if Justin Murray had to play left guard, but only because he was a third-round pick, I hope Josh Jones would develop enough to take the spot. I think the coaches has more than indicated that Jones could end up as a guard instead of a tackle, and it is my guess that Winters is not brought in to start. And yes, I also agree with you that improved play from that unit is a huge help for the run game.

 

[BritCard]

I'd say that is true IF Trey Lance is VG. And any objective appraisal would conclude is that we just don't know.

He means they have got better since 2015. Which is categorically true.

 

[football karma]

my last bearish argument for why the Rams wont be as good next year as 2020:

they were #2 in the NFL (in a good way for them) in terms of injuries (the Bucs were #1). BTW: SEA was 20, Cards were 23, and to no surprise, SF was 32).

any regression to the mean suggests the Rams will deal with more injuries this year -- its the inverse of what we all accept as truth with SF- they will be better than their record because all those players come back.


and there is some serious battered Cardinal fan syndrome here: we are allowed to have good players from time to time

 

[Krangodnzr]

decent? nah. You don't have the #2 offense in points and #1 offense in yards with just a decent line. Individually, no one may have been at the level of Humphries or Hudson, but as a UNIT they were among the best in the league. They were #6th in the league in sacks given up, giving Palmer enough time for a high powered passing attack and somehow made Chris Johnson's quickly rotting corpse lead the league in rushing before his body broke down on him and then didn't skip a beat but actually got better with DJ after.

I think people forget how much of a juggernaut that offense was before in the running regular season MVP Palmer went choke-artist Playoff Palmer.

This year's line has 3/5s of the line set with good to very good players, but mediocrity at best at RT and a big goose-egg on G. Remains to be seen if the right side of the line can hold up it's end of the bargain to make the unit as good as 2015.

Bottom line this for me... do you think we're going to have the best or second best offense in the league in both yards and points this year? Because that's the comparison with the 2015 offense.

Nah B. That line wasn't great. Center, RG, and RT were all average players to fringe players

The difference is talent at QB, WR, and RB, nothing more. Palmer was in an offense that suited his strengths and he was playing in that offense for multiple years. You had three receivers hovering around 1000 yards.

Ted Larson was around Justin Murrays level.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Really? I mean, obviously the Rams thought so to give up so much to get Stafford, but... Stafford has a career 89.9 passer rating (96.3 last year), while Goff has a career 91.5 rating (90.0 last year). McVay obviously thinks Stafford is a better fit for his system, and i've always liked Stafford, but he's never been a winner in big games or prime time games. I'm in the "wait and see" camp regarding whether he'll be "enormously" or just marginally better.

...dave

Yeah statistically it's a hard argument to make that Stafford is better.

It's not like I havent seen Stafford have quite a few Goffian games himself. The Rams are gambling more than most are letting on. This concept that 1st round picks aren't worth much is going to blow up in their faces.

As good as Jamal Adams was for the Seahawks last year against the run and rushing the passer, he was a massive liability in coverage, one of the worst DBs in the league in coverage. The Seahawks traded a treasure trove of picks and gave him a stupid big contract. Not worth it.

As much as Cardinals fans are knocking guys like Watt for injury concerns and giving the Niners players a pass...it's insane. Like I said before, the Niners are HEAVILY counting on Boss and Samuel to get healthy, a proposition that hasn't been true for either of the in the NFL AND in college.

I think the Cardinals had a good offseason, one of their better offseasons in years. The JJ Watt signing might be a signing we look back on in a few years as a major turn around point. He can still plays at a fairly high level and he is the type of player who makes others around him better. I wanted to keep Reddick, but he won't have the same impact Watt will have for the entire front seven.

 

[QuebecCard]

Lol. I could've looked up his name but I was lazy. My point is, he can give us at least as much as Kennard so why not just cut him loose?

Why?

Because we have no idea how much he can contribute at this point.

 

[Chopper0080]

He's costing us 6 million & basically gives us nothing. The Duke player can give us that much & won't cost 6 million lol.

What is the point of saving 6 mil when you don't need it?

 

[Dr. Jones]

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Wow....

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[juza76]

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Wow....

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How many losses with just one score?

 

[Ronin]

at least we are not last.

 

[BritCard]

decent? nah. You don't have the #2 offense in points and #1 offense in yards with just a decent line. Individually, no one may have been at the level of Humphries or Hudson, but as a UNIT they were among the best in the league. They were #6th in the league in sacks given up, giving Palmer enough time for a high powered passing attack and somehow made Chris Johnson's quickly rotting corpse lead the league in rushing before his body broke down on him and then didn't skip a beat but actually got better with DJ after.

I think people forget how much of a juggernaut that offense was before in the running regular season MVP Palmer went choke-artist Playoff Palmer.

This year's line has 3/5s of the line set with good to very good players, but mediocrity at best at RT and a big goose-egg on G. Remains to be seen if the right side of the line can hold up it's end of the bargain to make the unit as good as 2015.

Bottom line this for me... do you think we're going to have the best or second best offense in the league in both yards and points this year? Because that's the comparison with the 2015 offense.

I'm going to to have to invoke PFF here considering we are comparing like for like and they are graded in the exact same way.

The 2015 Cardinals O line was ranked 28th in pass blocking and 4th in run blocking for 17th overall.

Even last years line with Cole and Sweezy ranked 12th overall. They no longer split it by PB and RB sadly.

Sure some of that will be down to scheme. Kyler is mobile and we make a lot of quick passes that saves the O line sometimes. That 2015 team took a lot of intermediate shots so it's hard to directly compare.

But even being generous you would have to say they were pretty similar right?