Steve Nash trade thread

[JCSunsfan]

Hopefully we can keep all the rumors, suggestions, and news in one thread. I am curious to see what you all think we could get in return for Nash.

Doug and Wolf this morning were saying that the Suns need to do what is best for the team, NOT what is best for Steve Nash. Wolfley was the one most adamant about it and he is the former pro player. The Suns HAVE to get value for Nash or they have no future. They cannot trade him just to please Nash.

I agree

 

[Cheesebeef]

no one man is bigger than the team.

get as much value as you can for him... if you can send him to a contender, even better, but for the love of god, admit the run is over and start rebuilding.

 

[elindholm]

I predict that this thread will be quickly overrun by posts that drastically overrate Nash's trade value, particularly to a non-contending team.

 

[jagu]

I'll start:

We definitely can get 2 first rounders and a big players and a big player for Nash from a lottery team!!

 

[AzStevenCal]

I predict that this thread will be quickly overrun by posts that drastically overrate Nash's trade value, particularly to a non-contending team.

And that's why I say keep him. As long as he can still get out of his walker and onto the court, we should play him and pay him. A band-aid here and a lick of paint there and we'll be right back in the running for a playoff spot next season. j/k

I have no idea what we can get from him. I advocated moving him once Amare left for NY but another year of wear and tear has probably reduced his value quite a bit. I think it's possible that we could still get a decent to marginal player and a middle of the road draft pick but not much more. Regardless, I think we have to move him otherwise the F.O. gang will never start the rebuild.

Steve

 

[JCSunsfan]

I predict that this thread will be quickly overrun by posts that drastically overrate Nash's trade value, particularly to a non-contending team.

I think, generally speaking, we underrate his trade value on this board. There are some that overrate his value. Columnists have said that "a young player and a pick" is about his market value. I assume that is a fairly promising young player and a mid-first. If is was the Knicks, I think their first and Landry Fields might be a stretch, but the pick and Chauncy Billups is not quite enough.

There is no point in trading Nash unless we can get something useful for rebuilding. We do not trade him just to trade him.

 

[Bufalay]

Ryen Russillo, whose opinion is as valuable as that of a person on the comments section of a lil' wayne youtube video, suggested that Toronto should trade Bargnani for Nash and Gortat, but added that Toronto probably wouldn't want to do it.

 

[Bufalay]

I think, generally speaking, we underrate his trade value on this board. There are some that overrate his value. Columnists have said that "a young player and a pick" is about his market value. I assume that is a fairly promising young player and a mid-first. If is was the Knicks, I think their first and Landry Fields might be a stretch, but the pick and Chauncy Billups is not quite enough.

Fields kind of sucks.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Ryen Russillo, whose opinion is as valuable as that of a person on the comments section of a lil' wayne youtube video, suggested that Toronto should trade Bargnani for Nash and Gortat, but added that Toronto probably wouldn't want to do it.

Everybody wants Gortat as a throw in. He is probably our most valuable player in trade right now, he is not going to be a throw in.

 

[Griffin]

If I remember correctly, there were some rumors prior to this season that Blazers wanted to trade for Nash and were offering several young players in return. That sounded great since the Blazers were full of young talented prospects until it was revealed that those players Blazers offered were Travis Outlaw and Steve Blake. The point is, the Suns probably won't get much more in return for Nash. NY might have been able to give us the most, but not after Anthony's trade. And teams that might want Nash won't have high draft picks, except for Toronto.

 

[JCSunsfan]

If I remember correctly, there were some rumors prior to this season that Blazers wanted to trade for Nash and were offering several young players in return. That sounded great since the Blazers were full of young talented prospects until it was revealed that those players Blazers offered were Travis Outlaw and Steve Blake. The point is, the Suns probably won't get much more in return for Nash. NY might have been able to give us the most, but not after Anthony's trade. And teams that might want Nash won't have high draft picks, except for Toronto.

Mid 1st round picks. NY will pick 16 or 17 or so.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Bargnani for Nash and Gortat, but added that Toronto probably wouldn't want to do it.

At this point, I wouldn't trade Gortat for Bargnani straight up. Gortat is so far superior in terms of defense and rebounding it isn't even funny, and Bargnani, while a good scorer, can't do anything else.

 

[AzStevenCal]

If I remember correctly, there were some rumors prior to this season that Blazers wanted to trade for Nash and were offering several young players in return. That sounded great since the Blazers were full of young talented prospects until it was revealed that those players Blazers offered were Travis Outlaw and Steve Blake. The point is, the Suns probably won't get much more in return for Nash. NY might have been able to give us the most, but not after Anthony's trade. And teams that might want Nash won't have high draft picks, except for Toronto.

I have no problem with future draft picks especially if we can get them unprotected. I think you can trade picks up to 7 years in the future IIRC. A pick 4 or 5 years down the road might have some real value if you're talking about a team whose window is now.

Steve

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I have no problem with future draft picks especially if we can get them unprotected. I think you can trade picks up to 7 years in the future IIRC. A pick 4 or 5 years down the road might have some real value if you're talking about a team whose window is now.

Steve

True, but that's so hard to predict, and when have you ever seen a pick traded more than 3 years in the future, let alone 3? I just don't think it happens very often.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I have no problem with future draft picks especially if we can get them unprotected. I think you can trade picks up to 7 years in the future IIRC. A pick 4 or 5 years down the road might have some real value if you're talking about a team whose window is now.

Steve

EXACTLY.

 

[Cheesebeef]

There is no point in trading Nash unless we can get something useful for rebuilding. We do not trade him just to trade him.

you trade him so you can start rebuilding and get whatever you can for him. as Nash has gotten considerably older, we've seen him breaking down in consecutive 2nd halves of seasons, his scoring plummeting and shooting percentages going down. Him breaking down and that happening WILL continue. You can't beat father time.

letting him play out his last year and losing him for nothing next year, after a year which will be a complete waste of time and end up with us most likely out of the playoffs but with the 12th pick in the draft makes no sense to me versus getting whatever you can for him, bottoming out and maybe getting a top 3 pick.

 

[AzStevenCal]

True, but that's so hard to predict, and when have you ever seen a pick traded more than 3 years in the future, let alone 3? I just don't think it happens very often.

Well, sure, it's not done often because the Stepien rule makes trading unwieldy once you've sent away a future pick. Also, teams that are looking for picks are rarely desirous of such a future reward. We're in a pretty dismal situation though and it's one that's not likely to be resolved by an extra non-lottery pick in the immediate future. We pretty much have to take some gambles IMO. And if you trade for a pick 5 years down the road, you're really only sitting on it for 2 or 3 years before you could easily package it if your needs become more immediate.

Steve

 

[JCSunsfan]

Well, sure, it's not done often because the Stepien rule makes trading unwieldy once you've sent away a future pick. Also, teams that are looking for picks are rarely desirous of such a future reward. We're in a pretty dismal situation though and it's one that's not likely to be resolved by an extra non-lottery pick in the immediate future. We pretty much have to take some gambles IMO. And if you trade for a pick 5 years down the road, you're really only sitting on it for 2 or 3 years before you could easily package it if your needs become more immediate.

Steve

Utah went into a nice rebuilding mode with one move. They got a decent young pg in return and now they are going to have two high lottery picks in this draft. It is not out of the realm to see Utah come out of this draft with something like Derrick Williams and Fredette.

 

[SirStefan32]

Utah went into a nice rebuilding mode with one move. They got a decent young pg in return and now they are going to have two high lottery picks in this draft. It is not out of the realm to see Utah come out of this draft with something like Derrick Williams and Fredette.

There is nobody out there who will give you lottery picks for Nash.

I am all for trading Nash if we can get something in return, but I can not envision a situation in which we get anything of real value for Nash.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Utah went into a nice rebuilding mode with one move. They got a decent young pg in return and now they are going to have two high lottery picks in this draft. It is not out of the realm to see Utah come out of this draft with something like Derrick Williams and Fredette.

yeah, but that's because they TRADED HIGH. They didn't wait until they had zero leverage with Williams or until he was too old to get anything back. the Nash thing is a totally different scenario. he's older than dirt, he's been breaking down in the last two seasons in the second half.

the only similarities are the fact that utah realized it was done and did something about it. we've been sitting on our hands all season thinking we could do more with Nash and fooling ourselves... and my fear is we'll continue to this off-season.

 

[JCSunsfan]

There is nobody out there who will give you lottery picks for Nash.

I am all for trading Nash if we can get something in return, but I can not envision a situation in which we get anything of real value for Nash.

I am sorry. I did not intend to insinuate we could get that type of deal for Nash. I was just noticing how fast Utah was able to get down the road to rebuilding. That kind of trade is what we needed to pull off for Amare.

 

[tobiazz]

I am sorry. I did not intend to insinuate we could get that type of deal for Nash. I was just noticing how fast Utah was able to get down the road to rebuilding. That kind of trade is what we needed to pull off for Amare.

(First, there was already a Nash trade thread, but whatever.)

Didn't the Jazz send two future 1sts to get Jefferson? I don't know what their net number of picks is so I don't know how good their rebuilding looks.

 

[tobiazz]

I predict that this thread will be quickly overrun by posts that drastically overrate Nash's trade value, particularly to a non-contending team.

What would be a drastic overrating? While I don't expect the Suns to make the right sort of phone calls to detect it, there could be a scenario in which the Suns could garner decent value for Nash.

Maybe one of the bad teams with a good pick, who should not want Nash, will make a push to become good fast. The Celtics gave up a #5 pick for a 32 year old Ray Allen, a scary age for a shooting guard. Allen was scoring a lot up to that point, but don't forget that Nash is leading the league in assists having the highest average he's had in about four years while having the worst finishers he ever has.

If a team has good weapons to whom Nash can pass, and they don't want to wait for another draft pick to develop or flounder, they would be better served by trading for Nash. Say the Kings end up with about the 6th pick. Rather than take yet another rookie like Brandon Knight, why not trade the #6 pick for Nash so that the new Anaheim crowd can see some competent basketball and get into the team. Then in 2-3 years Nash expires and they have that money to sign a 2nd tier free agent. I believe that would come before they need to pay out big deals for Evans and Cousins so that could work out for them.

I think the least sexy, but best long-term, type of deal would be to:

* Trade Nash to a contender.
* Take back a one or two year longer contract of a player that team doesn't want.
* Take back a future pick or two as far in the future as possible with favorable protection and/or a good prospect.

If you admit your team will not compete for a few years, taking the bad contract player does not hurt that much. This is pretty much what CLE did, getting the Clippers high *unprotected* pick by taking Baron Davis's contract and giving up a crappy Mo Williams. OKC almost made out like bandits getting the far future unprotected pick from the Suns, who had a great record back then. So, maybe you could send Nash (and Hill) to Miami to split time with Bibby, take back Mike Miller if Miami wants to free up that salary, and get two far future, unprotected picks and pray for the best.

 

[chickenhead]

I honestly think Nash is more valuable to the Suns than he is to another team in a trade...UNLESS they are getting his replacement. But that clearly will not happen in a head-to-head trade, even for a pick. In a three-way-trade maybe, but then they'd have to be giving up someone else, too. Probably Gortat. So likely a no-go.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I honestly think Nash is more valuable to the Suns than he is to another team in a trade...UNLESS they are getting his replacement. But that clearly will not happen in a head-to-head trade, even for a pick. In a three-way-trade maybe, but then they'd have to be giving up someone else, too. Probably Gortat. So likely a no-go.

I miss the logic here. Why would a 3 way trade need to bring Gortat into the picture? Gortat is our most valuable asset, by far, IMO. If we trade him I certainly don't think it will be as a throw-in.

Steve