Steve Nash trade thread

[JCSunsfan]

Don't we have a huge TE available also from the NY signing of Amare. Did we not do a sign and trade with them?

In looking around, it seems to me that the teams where Nash would have the most impact would be the Knicks and Clippers (and maybe Atlanta). But the Clips and Atlanta don't even have 1st round picks. I would love to get Josh Smith from Atlanta but it would take more than Nash to pry him away--maybe Lopez would do it, but we would probably have to give up a pick too.

The Clippers have some young players that would be attractive, and then maybe we could get a future pick. But I would want that pick to be at least a 2013 pick (after Nash's contract is up). The odds of the Clips sinking back to futility are pretty good based upon management track record alone.

 

[TBaslim]

Only trade Nash if a team is going to give up a lot for him, or he wants out. An average young talent and a mid-first round draft pick in a bad draft (2011) are not worth it on value alone.

Now, a couple of good young players or a really good young player and a good draft pick in a good draft (2012)? Maybe then.

Suns need a Nance-like trade if they move Nash this summer, not a Barkley-like trade. The importance he has to the team is too large (both on and off the court). Otherwise, just keep him and limit his minutes next year.

Poor contracts like the Hak/Childress ones are doing more damage to our future than having Nash play out his sunset years for the team. (And I like Hak and Childress, just think they are overpaid)

People forget that Nash still makes others better. That increases his value, cause you can fill out parts of the team with lesser talent. For as bad as this year has been, the Suns were pretty good for awhile once things settled after the Orlando trade. With Nash next year, they need some pro-level but not all-star help at PF and SG, and are playoff team in the west. Without Nash? Suddenly a bunch of the other parts look worse and they miss the playoffs, probably by a lot.

 

[chickenhead]

I miss the logic here. Why would a 3 way trade need to bring Gortat into the picture? Gortat is our most valuable asset, by far, IMO. If we trade him I certainly don't think it will be as a throw-in.

Steve

You're right--needlessly confusing. I think I was trying to say that in order to get real value in a Nash trade, Nash would not actually be the valuable piece. In a 3-way trade it would be something like trading Nash and then moving the returning player with an asset like Gortat for an all-star. But clearly I could have made the same point by saying you'd have to trade Gortat and Nash in the same package.

Just ignore me for the rest of the night! It's bed time.

 

[AzStevenCal]

You're right--needlessly confusing. I think I was trying to say that in order to get real value in a Nash trade, Nash would not actually be the valuable piece. In a 3-way trade it would be something like trading Nash and then moving the returning player with an asset like Gortat for an all-star. But clearly I could have made the same point by saying you'd have to trade Gortat and Nash in the same package.

Just ignore me for the rest of the night! It's bed time.

Sleep well.

Steve

 

[mojorizen7]

I predict that this thread will be quickly overrun by posts that drastically overrate Nash's trade value, particularly to a non-contending team.

+1
As opposed to 2 years ago when the value was there for Nash.....and when a thread like this had cause to run wild with legit options to help the team.

Snooze.

 

[mojorizen7]

People forget that Nash still makes others better.

Nash makes others players better at playing Nashball.

Now that Nash is older & breaking down it makes zero sense to continue to hang on to Nash till he's 40 yrs old,unless the plan is to continue to play Nashball after he retires.........

 

[Cheesebeef]

Only trade Nash if a team is going to give up a lot for him, or he wants out.

what team are you guys watching? No one is going to give up a lot for a 38 year old, breaking down PG... nor is he worth that much even to us at this point considering that even with him, the team is a lottery team.

 

[sunsfan88]

How is he breaking down when he still leads the league in assists? Do the other PGs just suck or something?

Nash can get better value than you think.

 

[Chaplin]

Utah went into a nice rebuilding mode with one move. They got a decent young pg in return and now they are going to have two high lottery picks in this draft. It is not out of the realm to see Utah come out of this draft with something like Derrick Williams and Fredette.

They also had a player that has FAR MORE value than anyone on the Suns to bargain with.

 

[Cheesebeef]

How is he breaking down when he still leads the league in assists? Do the other PGs just suck or something?

are you kidding me?

just look at his stats pre and post all-star game the last two years:

his numbers sharply declined in 2009:

PRE: 52% FG, 44% 3 FG, 11 asst. 18.3 ppg
POST: 48% FG, 39% 3 FG, 11 asst. 13 ppg

and PLUMMETED this year:

2010:

PRE ALL-STAR: 52% FG, 41% 3 FG, 11.6 asst. 17 ppg
POST ALL- STAR: 40% FG, 35% 3FG, 11.6, 10.4 ppg

he's shot and scored at a much worse clip int he second half of the season the last two years and it's because he's been constantly hurting in the second half of the last two seasons. none of that can even be debated. he's said as much and the numbers back it up.

 

[Chaplin]

are you kidding me?

just look at his stats pre and post all-star game the last two years:

his numbers sharply declined in 2009:

PRE: 52% FG, 44% 3 FG, 11 asst. 18.3 ppg
POST: 48% FG, 39% 3 FG, 11 asst. 13 ppg

and PLUMMETED this year:

2010:

PRE ALL-STAR: 52% FG, 41% 3 FG, 11.6 asst. 17 ppg
POST ALL- STAR: 40% FG, 35% 3FG, 11.6, 10.4 ppg

he's shot and scored at a much worse clip int he second half of the season the last two years and it's because he's been constantly hurting in the second half of the last two seasons. none of that can even be debated. he's said as much and the numbers back it up.

I think his health has been worse than everyone has made it out to be. But you treat him like he has no value whatsoever, to anyone, in any situation. And most will totally disagree with that.

 

[sunsfan88]

Its cause the Suns have no scorers. In the seasons before we could have just dumped it off to Amare and watched him go to work.

In the 2nd part of 09, his scoring decreased mainly because Amare came out and just started tearing it up. No one except for him saw their stats increase. He provided basically all the scoring for us so no one else had to do anything.

In 1st half of this season we could have just gave to J-Rich.

Now with opposing defenses actually trapping Gortat on the pick & roll, we have no offense which results in Nash trying to create his own shot which is probably his only weakness on offense.

Nash is definitely not as good as a scorer as he used to be but put Nash next to a guy that can score even if he is not spoon-fed by Steve on every play and Nash's numbers will go back up.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I think his health has been worse than everyone has made it out to be. But you treat him like he has no value whatsoever, to anyone, in any situation.

seriously, are you trying to start a flame war? i've said nash has value, but it's not very high. Bottom line is he IS older and breaking down and thus his value would only be to someone looking to get over the top and those teams really don't have all that much to give up. Thus, his value to a team like that is very high, but there's very little we can from them. But his value to an old team with little upside is pretty low (which is us at this point).

And most will totally disagree with that.

of course they would, which is why i've never said such a thing.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Its cause the Suns have no scorers. In the seasons before we could have just dumped it off to Amare and watched him go to work. In 1st half of this season we could have just gave to J-Rich.

the suns had scorers last year and his numbers went down in the second half.

Now with opposing defenses actually trapping Gortat on the pick & roll, we have no offense which results in Nash trying to create his own shot which is probably his only weakness on offense.

Put Nash next to a guy that can score even if he is not spoon-fed by Steve on every play and Nash's numbers will go back up

and how is this team supposed to get a guy who can score even if he is not spoon-fed by Nash on every play?

uh, his numbers went down last year in the second half with Amare as well.

 

[sunsfan88]

Oh let me assure, I'm on the "Trade Nash"'bandwagon as well but I just think he has more trade value than you think he does.

 

[ninous26]

The suns will do a straight trade this off season; Nash for Kevin Durant.. I got this from a reliable source via text message.

 

[chickenhead]

I don't think Nash has no value, but I am cynical about what he would actually bring in a trade. He's a rental, and the Suns are run by Sarver. That does not in any way project a position of strength in my opinion.

 

[Mainstreet]

Its cause the Suns have no scorers. In the seasons before we could have just dumped it off to Amare and watched him go to work.

In the 2nd part of 09, his scoring decreased mainly because Amare came out and just started tearing it up. No one except for him saw their stats increase. He provided basically all the scoring for us so no one else had to do anything.

In 1st half of this season we could have just gave to J-Rich.

Now with opposing defenses actually trapping Gortat on the pick & roll, we have no offense which results in Nash trying to create his own shot which is probably his only weakness on offense.

Nash is definitely not as good as a scorer as he used to be but put Nash next to a guy that can score even if he is not spoon-fed by Steve on every play and Nash's numbers will go back up.

I just had to say this is a good post. The Suns less Amare and JRich is mostly scrambled eggs with Nash trying to make an omelet.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think his health has been worse than everyone has made it out to be. But you treat him like he has no value whatsoever, to anyone, in any situation. And most will totally disagree with that.

he's got value, but it's only to a limited amount of teams and only for a limited return. the interested teams likely have to be contenders or playoff teams that think they just need that extra push. the return will be something like late 1st round or similar type player value. lotto pick? for a player who likely isn't at his best when you need him at his best (playoffs)? no way. wish it was otherwise, but it won't be.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

the suns had scorers last year and his numbers went down in the second half.



and how is this team supposed to get a guy who can score even if he is not spoon-fed by Nash on every play?

uh, his numbers went down last year in the second half with Amare as well.

no no, you're missing his point. he was saying if he's playing with players who can score his numbers will go down. and if he's playing with players who can score his numbers will go up. yeah, he's contradicting himself.

 

[sunsfan88]

If Nash can play with someone that can create his own shot which means Nash doesn't have to shoot all the time, it will improve Nash's scoring. Why? Because he doesn't have to waste time and energy trying to create his own shot which is a huge weakness for him.

I'm not sayin to put him next to a ball hog. Believe it or not Amare and J-rich were not very good at finding open team mates.

I completely understand if you don't get what I am saying because I admit it is very confusing.

 

[JCSunsfan]

If Nash can play with someone that can create his own shot which means Nash doesn't have to shoot all the time, it will improve Nash's scoring. Why? Because he doesn't have to waste time and energy trying to create his own shot which is a huge weakness for him.

I'm not sayin to put him next to a ball hog. Believe it or not Amare and J-rich were not very good at finding open team mates.

I completely understand if you don't get what I am saying because I admit it is very confusing.

I think I disagree. Maybe Nash's scoring would increase, but I doubt it. Nash is MOST effective with the ball in his hands. I do not think he would be as effective with someone else trying to create for him, even if it did conserve energy for him.

He is most effective when he creates for someone else. Nash's own scoring opportunities come from his ability to create for others. He gets quality open looks because opponents are so afraid of his passing ability.

The fact that he is one of the deadliest shooters in league history is a bonus.

 

[Cheesebeef]

If Nash can play with someone that can create his own shot which means Nash doesn't have to shoot all the time, it will improve Nash's scoring. Why? Because he doesn't have to waste time and energy trying to create his own shot which is a huge weakness for him.

I'm not sayin to put him next to a ball hog. Believe it or not Amare and J-rich were not very good at finding open team mates.

I completely understand if you don't get what I am saying because I admit it is very confusing.

it's not confusing... it's just MUCH easier said than done finding that guy... and still doesn't make me think any differently about the fact that Nash PHYSICALLY looked worse in the second half of the last two seasons and his stats went along with it.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Just a little perspective looking back, with all the talk about trading Nash, the draft and all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IP7pt-1cbo

 

[Mainstreet]

I think the point that Sunsfan88 is trying to make is that if Nash had a couple go-to scorers, he would be much more effective as a scorer and so would the Suns as a team. The loss of Amare and Jrich gave up two of Nash"s favorite options. Now teams can just lock up Nash and pretty much shut down the Suns offense.