Steve Nash trade thread

[Cheesebeef]

I think the point that Sunsfan88 is trying to make is that if Nash had a couple go-to scorers, he would be much more effective as a scorer and so would the Suns as a team. The loss of Amare and Jrich gave up two of Nash"s favorite options. Now teams can just lock up Nash and pretty much shut down the Suns offense.

that's great and all but... last year he had both of those guys and his stats plummeted in the second half as well.

also, there's pretty much NO WAY to get those type of guys on this team at this point so who cares?

 

[Mainstreet]

that's great and all but... last year he had both of those guys and his stats plummeted in the second half as well.

also, there's pretty much NO WAY to get those type of guys on this team at this point so who cares?

I guess you are locked into Nash's second half stats last season which I'm giving you because they must be terrible...



but you might want to consider the Suns made it to the WCFs last season.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I guess you are locked into Nash's second half stats last season which I'm giving you because they must be terrible...

i'm locked into them because they represent a trend in the last couple years.
and they weren't terrible. they just went down a good couple notches in the second half of the season... and there were reports that he was playing with problems again... and we all commented on it throughout the second half of last season.

and this year... well... he fell off a freaking cliff... and it wasn't like he had a great supply of talent around him when the season started.

this is what happens with great players when they get into their LATE 30's. not to mention players in their late 30's who have had chronic problems for years.

but you might want to consider the Suns made it to the WCFs last season.

what's your point? Amare became the MVP of the team in the second half of the season last year and it was him and J Rich and the bench were destroying people in the playoffs. Nash was certainly a part of that, but even then, he was still hurting and not playing up to the way he did early in the season.

i think you're trying to make it out to seem like I think Nash is garbage... when that's not at all what I'm saying. I just think (like most 37 year old guys) he's past his prime and his value to this team, especially as currently constructed, isn't all that high... and unfortunately, there's no way to make this team better to the point where Nash could make a real difference for a long playoff run... which is why it's better to admit the era's over, trade him somewhere we can watch him go attack one more time and hopefully get whatever we can for him before he leaves us in a year anyway... unless we were planning on signing him again when he was 39 and then we'd just be the dumbest team in the history of the league.

 

[Mainstreet]

i think you're trying to make it out to seem like I think Nash is garbage... when that's not at all what I'm saying. I just think (like most 37 year old guys) he's past his prime and his value to this team, especially as currently constructed, isn't all that high... and unfortunately, there's no way to make this team better to the point where Nash could make a real difference for a long playoff run... which is why it's better to admit the era's over, trade him somewhere we can watch him go attack one more time and hopefully get whatever we can for him before he leaves us in a year anyway... unless we were planning on signing him again when he was 39 and then we'd just be the dumbest team in the history of the league.

The Suns are old, bad and without much talent. We do agree that what is best for Nash and the Suns is to part ways. Too bad the Suns could not see it at the trading deadline. I wish the best for Nash and hope he ends up on a contender.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I do believe Nash will be traded this summer, and I am becoming convinced he will be traded in a package that includes Robin Lopez. Now, I am one of those who would like to keep Lopez around. He is so young and he has such potential. But here are my reasones.

1. The package of those two players will be way more attractive to other teams. They get help now and something for the future.
2. Lopez is huge. His size alone and his ability to move will be attractive to other teams.
3. Brook Lopez helps Robin's value. Teams look at Brook and see potential for Robin. It might not make sense, but they do.
4. Never underestimate the arrogance of NBA execs to think that they can develop Lopez. There is enough film of Lopez doing some good things to make them take the bait.

THAT is the package that will bring something decent back in return. I would not be surprised if the basics of a trade are already being discussed.

 

[BC867]

'Glad to see that Siler got a look today vs. Dallas, playing 12:0 minutes to Lopez' 4:57.

EJ said that Siler has already lost enough weight. He seems pretty hight on him. 'Glad to hear that, as well.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I think the Trailblazers, Hawks, Knicks, Heat, Jazz, Rockets, Grizzlies, or the Clippers would give their left nut for Steve Nash.

 

[SirStefan32]

I think the Trailblazers, Hawks, Knicks, Heat, Jazz, Rockets, Grizzlies, or the Clippers would give their left nut for Steve Nash.

Unfortunately, we don't need their left nut. We need good PF, SG, and draft picks.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I think the Trailblazers, Hawks, Knicks, Heat, Jazz, Rockets, Grizzlies, or the Clippers would give their left nut for Steve Nash.

Nash and Lopez plus a pick (maybe even a second rounder) might net Josh Smith from the Hawks. We could probably even throw in Warrick instead of the pick. Add Josh Smith and then pick up a young pg in the draft and maybe pick up a 2-3 in free agency and you are started again with a younger nucleus.

 

[Mainstreet]

Nash and Lopez plus a pick (maybe even a second rounder) might net Josh Smith from the Hawks. We could probably even throw in Warrick instead of the pick. Add Josh Smith and then pick up a young pg in the draft and maybe pick up a 2-3 in free agency and you are started again with a younger nucleus.

Only if the Suns can do it with a second round pick.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Only if the Suns can do it with a second round pick.

I'd throw Warrick into that trade instead of a pick in a flash. Smith would take Warrick's minutes anyway.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'd throw Warrick into that trade instead of a pick in a flash. Smith would take Warrick's minutes anyway.

I do not disagree about Warrick. I just do not want the Suns to throw in a first round pick in your trade scenario.

 

[BC867]

With a couple of exceptions, Steve didn't even try to score in our next-to-last game of the season. Was it about him winning the Assists title?

Or is he hurting that much? And, if so, what will make it any different when he is still another year older a year from now?

We love you Steve. But forget about the APS commercials. It's time to go!

 

[sunsfan88]

Yea Nash will set the record for being the oldest player ever to win the assists title.

 

[slinslin]

Nash and Lopez plus a pick (maybe even a second rounder) might net Josh Smith from the Hawks. We could probably even throw in Warrick instead of the pick. Add Josh Smith and then pick up a young pg in the draft and maybe pick up a 2-3 in free agency and you are started again with a younger nucleus.

If you are going to rebuild why in the world would you want to start with a flawed lineup from the beginning.

Josh Smith is a gimmick PF. It's like playing Shawn Marion at PF all over again. Smith is stronger than Marion was but he has no post-up game, he is undersized, he gets by with his athleticism defensively.

And without Nash I don't even want to think how horrible we would be on offense with Gortat and Smith in the frontcourt, 2 guys who have no post-moves and can't facilitate the offense.

Trading Nash and even just our low lottery pick for Josh Smith is beyond stupid.

 

[Covert Rain]

i'm locked into them because they represent a trend in the last couple years.
and they weren't terrible. they just went down a good couple notches in the second half of the season... and there were reports that he was playing with problems again... and we all commented on it throughout the second half of last season.

and this year... well... he fell off a freaking cliff... and it wasn't like he had a great supply of talent around him when the season started.

this is what happens with great players when they get into their LATE 30's. not to mention players in their late 30's who have had chronic problems for years.


i think you're trying to make it out to seem like I think Nash is garbage... when that's not at all what I'm saying. I just think (like most 37 year old guys) he's past his prime and his value to this team, especially as currently constructed, isn't all that high... and unfortunately, there's no way to make this team better to the point where Nash could make a real difference for a long playoff run... which is why it's better to admit the era's over, trade him somewhere we can watch him go attack one more time and hopefully get whatever we can for him before he leaves us in a year anyway... unless we were planning on signing him again when he was 39 and then we'd just be the dumbest team in the history of the league.

I agree. I said it after it became public knowledge he was hurt. Nash has probably hit the "physical" wall. Not saying that Nash is still not one of the best PG's but what is happening to Nash happens to all players his age.

Aside from getting another Super star.....not just a good player, the Suns can't win a title with him. It's time. Holding on to Nash buys you nothing. I keep hearing people say "can you imagine how bad this team would be without Nash". We can't win a title with Nash the way this team is built which is the entire point.

Why not try and get something for him? We have to eventually move on without Nash in the next season or two anyway. Why not do it now while you can get something?

I could see holding on to Nash if you could get another superstar to play along side him. What other Star is out there that the Suns can get their hands on? I don't see any realistic scenarios right now.

I would love if the Suns could pull off a surprising trade to bring in a star but IMO.....it's over.

 

[slinslin]

If we are going to rebuild and trade Nash we have to look at young pieces, 24 years or younger. Not guys who are 27-28 and are likely past their prime when we are finished with the rebuild cycle.

Also no compromises. You build from scratch take players who have a well-defined position and don't start moving around tweeners or put players out of position.

Why does Atlanta want to trade Smith? Because he is no real PF. They wish they had a center so they could move Horford to the 4.

DeRozan would have been a player to look at last year or before the trade deadline when people were still down on him. We might have had a chance to get him now that is a pipe dream since he put up like 26/5/2 the last few weeks, very good defender too. Even Bayless has put up like 20/6 in the backcourt with him.

 

[Covert Rain]

If we are going to rebuild and trade Nash we have to look at young pieces, 24 years or younger. Not guys who are 27-28 and are likely past their prime when we are finished with the rebuild cycle.

Since when is 27-28 past your prime?!?!?!!?

Also, when is the last time the Suns built through the draft over a period of time or built around young guys? You keep saying trade for young guys but the Suns never do that. They make trades until they have a good mix of players to compete in the playoffs.

If the Suns do what they always do and try and build a win now team over the next few seasons, you take the best player you can get. You simply don't trade for project young player or nothing but potential young guys. You build the best team possible through a combination of vets and some young talent.

 

[slinslin]

Because these players will be 30-32 when we are finished rebuilding and past their prime.

Steve Nash does not represent the typical career for a NBA player. Especially not someone like Josh Smith who is tied to his athletic ability.

And the Suns recently never really rebuild because they hit the jackpot immediately with Amare Stoudemire and acquiring a young star like Jason Kidd post-Barkley.
However that is not going to happen now because we have no assets to get such a player.

 

[Covert Rain]

Because these players will be 30-32 when we are finished rebuilding and past their prime.

When have the Suns taken that long to rebuild? Even prior to Amare, the Suns always made moves to build for the "now". This organization does not build through the draft. I disagree that for instance that keeping Gortat is pointless because the team will be building through young players. It's not going to happen. This organization is not going to build through the draft for the next 5 years.

P.S. Even when Gortat is 32...that is is not old. Not nowadays. Gortat at 32 will still be better than a young project player at center that won't amount to much......oh...like Lopez.

Steve Nash does not represent the typical career for a NBA player. Especially not someone like Josh Smith who is tied to his athletic ability.

And the Suns recently never really rebuild because they hit the jackpot immediately with Amare Stoudemire and acquiring a young star like Jason Kidd post-Barkley.

However that is not going to happen now because we have no assets to get such a player.

There is nothing in the Suns recent history to suggest they will stand pat and build for the next 5 years in the draft. The Suns only need one good draft pick or a free agent player to fall through the cracks or involve themselves in a trade with a team desperate to shed salary. These are all very feasible scenarios the Suns seem to always be in the middle of.

 

[carey]

All great points here lately. Once they decided to keep Nash and let Amare walk it was no longer about winning a championship but about winning games. Sarver and co. really bought into the whole idea that you can plug in anyone with Nash and he would maximize their potential allowing them to compete. I think they still believe that. The team struggles mightily to win without him and because of that I think Nash will be a Sun until they start struggling to win games with him. It is debatable whether or not that point is now. One thing we can agree on though, is if it isn't now, Nash will have no trade value by the time the Suns feel it is.

 

[slinslin]

When have the Suns taken that long to rebuild? Even prior to Amare, the Suns always made moves to build for the "now". This organization does not build through the draft. I disagree that for instance that keeping Gortat is pointless because the team will be building through young players. It's not going to happen. This organization is not going to build through the draft for the next 5 years.

P.S. Even when Gortat is 32...that is is not old. Not nowadays. Gortat at 32 will still be better than a young project player at center that won't amount to much......oh...like Lopez.



There is nothing in the Suns recent history to suggest they will stand pat and build for the next 5 years in the draft. The Suns only need one good draft pick or a free agent player to fall through the cracks or involve themselves in a trade with a team desperate to shed salary. These are all very feasible scenarios the Suns seem to always be in the middle of.

You are comparing Colangelo past with Sarver present. It does not make sense.

And the past doesn't matter anyway.

What did Celtics fans say 20 years ago after Bird? Oh don't worry we win it all every 2-3 years anyway look at our past?

 

[Covert Rain]

You are comparing Colangelo past with Sarver present. It does not make sense.

And the past doesn't matter anyway.

What did Celtics fans say 20 years ago after Bird? Oh don't worry we win it all every 2-3 years anyway look at our past?

All Sarver has done is retool since he got here. He never indicated he would build the Suns through the draft. So, again, what indications are their that the Suns would take that approach?

Nobody is saying the Suns will be successful at rebuilding through their normal process.

I will bet you money right now...the Suns don't rebuild this team through 5 years of drafting in the lottery or near it. You seriously think this town would put up with that? One of Sarvers main revenue sources are TV and filling up the arena. That won't happen should this team take 5 years to rebuild through the draft.

Sarver wants money now. He isn't going to put up with 5 years worth of lottery picks before he fills that stadium.

 

[Cheesebeef]

All Sarver has done is retool since he got here. He never indicated he would build the Suns through the draft. So, again, what indications are their that the Suns would take that approach?

Nobody is saying the Suns will be successful at rebuilding through their normal process.

I will bet you money right now...the Suns don't rebuild this team through 5 years of drafting in the lottery or near it. You seriously think this town would put up with that? One of Sarvers main revenue sources are TV and filling up the arena. That won't happen should this team take 5 years to rebuild through the draft.

Sarver wants money now. He isn't going to put up with 5 years worth of lottery picks before he fills that stadium.

he's gonna find 5 years worth of empty stadiums regardless of which way he goes at it. people don't like him, don't believe he has any clue what to do and the second Nash is gone, the fans who haven't already left (and attendance has been dropping for a couple years WITH HIM) will be gonzo also.

 

[Covert Rain]

he's gonna find 5 years worth of empty stadiums regardless of which way he goes at it. people don't like him, don't believe he has any clue what to do and the second Nash is gone, the fans who haven't already left (and attendance has been dropping for a couple years WITH HIM) will be gonzo also.

That's why I said in my post, nobody is saying he will be successful. However, I do believe it won't be for lack of trying versus standing pat and depending on the draft for 5 years.