Steve Wilks lawsuit against NFL

[kerouac9]

So everyone says much worse things about Keim solely based on merit but anything said about Wilks is racist in intent lol?

No one said this. Be interested in what those "much worse things about Keim" are.

 

[Russ Smith]

But that’s his point. It was Keim’s fault and bc he’s white he got a pass and all the blame went on the easy target, the black coach. Not saying I agree with him, but that’s the reason for that information being included.

I didn't get the Josh Allen stuff because we didn't pick Rosen over Allen, Josh had already been drafted? Unless Wilks' is claiming he wanted us to trade up for Josh and we declined to because we thought Rosen was better, which COULD have been true but it's not clear to me that's what Wilks is claiming. I read that as he's saying the guy who chose Rosen still has his job, the guy wanted to choose Allen got fired. And then a year later the white coach got Murray and he's still employed because he got a QB.

All of which makes massive assumptions that we could have had Josh if we wanted, and that we tanked with Wilks to get Murray when at the time he was hired, Murray wasn't even a projected first rounder.

 

[cardsfanmd]

No one said this. Be interested in what those "much worse things about Keim" are.

Lololol. Are you being serious???

 

[kerouac9]

Lololol. Are you being serious???

Sure. Please be specific.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Whenever I hear people talk about Wilks being "clueless" or "stupid" or whatever even on this board it feels like it has a racial valance to me. There are lots of ways that prejudice and antagonism are expressed, overt and subtle.

Isn't almost racist to have this view?

Wilks was clueless...he said as much when the media asked him how to turn things around! I would stop short of calling him "stupid". I don't think he is. I think he has the capacity to be a head coach.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I didn't get the Josh Allen stuff because we didn't pick Rosen over Allen, Josh had already been drafted? Unless Wilks' is claiming he wanted us to trade up for Josh and we declined to because we thought Rosen was better, which COULD have been true but it's not clear to me that's what Wilks is claiming. I read that as he's saying the guy who chose Rosen still has his job, the guy wanted to choose Allen got fired. And then a year later the white coach got Murray and he's still employed because he got a QB.

All of which makes massive assumptions that we could have had Josh if we wanted, and that we tanked with Wilks to get Murray when at the time he was hired, Murray wasn't even a projected first rounder.

As bad as Rosen was under Wilks, I fear Allen would have been ruined. That guy was super raw as a rookie.

 

[cardsfanmd]

Sure. Please be specific.

Virtually any of Stout’s posts from the last five years. The fact that you’d even be this blatantly dense just proves my point. Since it’s inception, whether deserved or not, outside of Bill B and Rod Graves, no one has come remotely close to catching the grief on this board that Keim has. I’ve read on here about his drinking, eating, marital status and parenting efforts when people got bored attacking his resume. Troll elsewhere, I spit the bait back out on this one.

 

[cardsfanmd]

It’s really pathetic that society has gotten to the point where nothing negative can be factually stated about an individual that happens to be a minority without it instantly being labeled as racism, sexism, bigotry, etc. Sorry, I’m not sorry. This is ridiculous. As a member of any race, if you think race is the underlying factor in every decision made, especialky ones you have zero firsthand knowledge of, you are in fact the racist. Mike B has had plenty of shortcomings as an owner. Discrimination of any kind is not one of them.

 

[Krangodnzr]

It’s really pathetic that society has gotten to the point where nothing negative can be factually stated about an individual that happens to be a minority without it instantly being labeled as racism, sexism, bigotry, etc. Sorry, I’m not sorry. This is ridiculous. As a member of any race, if you think race is the underlying factor in every decision made, especialky ones you have zero firsthand knowledge of, you are in fact the racist. Mike B has had plenty of shortcomings as an owner. Discrimination of any kind is not one of them.

I'm a pretty liberal guy on most issues, and I vehemently disagree with pretty much every post where you mention anything political.

But I do agree with you here to an extent. Not a darn bit of Wilks being fired had anything to do with the color of his skin, and it's a bull dunk proposition to state otherwise. As an Arizona sports fan, I've probably never had less faith in a coach than with Wilks.

I watch a few quarters of the preseason game and the Cardinals were so thoroughly out coached it was insane.

Wilks argument that it was based on racism should get a visceral reaction because it's an insult to real racism...which is ugly and vile and still exists in our culture. When we see fake crap like this we should get angry because it undermines the real fight against racism.

Wilks was wholly incompetent. He was similar to Dave McGinnis. Bad coach and there was no chance he deserved another season.

Flores was scapegoatted. I fully believe that. And he was screwed around by the Giants, who wer dumb enough to interview a legit minority candidate instead of an under qualified one.

 

[AZCB34]

I am guessing of Keim was black he would not have lasted this long

 

[gimpy]

Well, as you said, that is only a guess.

 

[JeffGollin]

My impression was that KM graded out as a top gun athletically, but whose build and offensive background were potential handicaps.

 

[JeffGollin]

Typo.

 

[JeffGollin]

Good coach or bad coach - at least give me hope.

Wilks gave us meh.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

It’s really pathetic that society has gotten to the point where nothing negative can be factually stated about an individual that happens to be a minority without it instantly being labeled as racism, sexism, bigotry, etc. Sorry, I’m not sorry. This is ridiculous. As a member of any race, if you think race is the underlying factor in every decision made, especialky ones you have zero firsthand knowledge of, you are in fact the racist. Mike B has had plenty of shortcomings as an owner. Discrimination of any kind is not one of them.

When it comes to protected classes, the intent matters less than the outcome.

Do I think Michael is racist? Not at all. Do I think he holds Keim to a different standard than the rest of the organization? That's apparent

 

[Cheesebeef]

I am guessing of Keim was black he would not have lasted this long

I gotta agree.

Then again, I think about how atrocious Rod Graves was from 2003-2006, burned through McGinnis and Dennis Green and was still calling the shots for his 3rd coach. And at that point had enough success the first three years to buy him two more terrible ones after that. And Keim at least started with a base of success.

Jesus. I just realized we’ve had Rod Graves and Steve Keim calling the shots for 20 years. Good lord.

And before anyone jumps down my throat with the “last 20 years have been so much better than the previous 20 years!” argument… I don’t measure success against previous patheticness. I measure success against other successful franchises.

 

[Shane]

I am guessing of Keim was black he would not have lasted this long

Explain Rod Graves then please

 

[BritCard]

As bad as Rosen was under Wilks, I fear Allen would have been ruined. That guy was super raw as a rookie.

If we drafted Josh Allen he would have been as bad as Rosen and so surely traded for Kyler the year after just as Rosen was right?

 

[BritCard]

I am guessing of Keim was black he would not have lasted this long

Dude Rod Graves was GM for 10 years. Rod Graves...

 

[BritCard]

When it comes to protected classes, the intent matters less than the outcome.

Do I think Michael is racist? Not at all. Do I think he holds Keim to a different standard than the rest of the organization? That's apparent

I think this is true to an extent. They are obviously buddies and he let's things slide others probably wouldn't get away with.

However I don't think that was the case re Wilks. At this time Keim's record was top tier. At the time of his DUI he was 50-30-1. The Wilks season was his first below .469. He'd won two executive of the year awards.

It's quite clear why Keim wasn't fired and Wilks was. Keim had a winning track record and multiple awards. Wilks had a pile of bricks, a hurdle and a 3-13 record.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I think this is true to an extent. They are obviously buddies and he let's things slide others probably wouldn't get away with.

However I don't think that was the case re Wilks. At this time Keim's record was top tier. At the time of his DUI he was 50-30-1. The Wilks season was his first below .469. He'd won two executive of the year awards.

It's quite clear why Keim wasn't fired and Wilks was. Keim had a winning track record and multiple awards. Wilks had a pile of bricks, a hurdle and a 3-13 record.

As much as I wanted to move on from Keim, some of the animosity towards him is over-the-top. He has a winning record overall. How many Cardinals GMs can say that?

If you read the comments on this board, you'd think Keim sucks at everything...he doesn't.

This is a team that hung on to Rod Graves for way too long. He was awful at everything. And he was black, so the idea that race has anything to do with Keim is just....insulting and idiotic.

 

[BritCard]

As much as I wanted to move on from Keim, some of the animosity towards him is over-the-top. He has a winning record overall. How many Cardinals GMs can say that?

If you read the comments on this board, you'd think Keim sucks at everything...he doesn't.

This is a team that hung on to Rod Graves for way too long. He was awful at everything. And he was black, so the idea that race has anything to do with Keim is just....insulting and idiotic.

He still have something like the 12th best record in the NFL of all current GM's with more than a year in the job.

I think Keim has hit his peak and I'd like to see him replaced, but sadly it's more likely we get someone worse than better.

 

[kerouac9]

Explain Rod Graves then please

We’ll, I mean Rod Graves drafted multiple hall of famers (Fitz and Peterson), several more RoH candidates (Campbell, Dockett, Wilson, Dansby), and shepherded the Cards to the super bowl. Three years after that, he was in the garbage can.

 

[Shane]

We’ll, I mean Rod Graves drafted multiple hall of famers (Fitz and Peterson), several more RoH candidates (Campbell, Dockett, Wilson, Dansby), and shepherded the Cards to the super bowl. Three years after that, he was in the garbage can.

What was his record as a GM? Who was the number one target on this board as public enemy number 1 that needed to be fired almost every single year? Had a nickname as the snail? And yet was black and maintained his position as GM for a decade.

Anyone even hinting that had Keim been black he would be fired by now? Clearly truly believes the Cardinals organization is racist at its core. They are part of the problem not the Cards. An organization that has clearly shown they are one of the better if not the best organization at giving minorities opportunities at pretty much every level.

It’s literal Horse manure at the highest level.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Curious, was Michael running the team during the graves years? Yes the Apple doesn’t always fall far from the tree but we’ve seen the cardinals are run differently under Billy than under Mikey. Each is his own man and should be judged by his own actions. The cardinals are a thing, not a person (despite what our tax code says). Thus the cardinals don’t do anything. Only the people running the cardinals can make decisions. Counting what bill did as credit (or demerit) towards Michael is kinda inappropriate.

This is not making a comment that I believe Mikey to be more or less racist (or even racist at all) than his father, but rather to point out that each should be looked at for their own merits. I don’t believe Michael hired graves or Dennis green so they shouldn’t be discussed as relevant to the current leadership.