Still like the Marbury trade?

[elindholm]

So, let's take stock. In exchange for their best player and team leader, the Suns received:

1. Financial flexibility, which the Suns can use to pursue free agents who won't have the impact Marbury would have.

2. Improved draft position (and number of picks), which the Suns can use to draft one or more players who won't have the impact Marbury would have.

3. A journeyman point guard no one likes, with a bad contract the Suns won't be able to get out of.

4. An unskilled "project" big man, who, like most project big men, has size as his primary attribute and shows little else in the way of developed basketball skill.

5. A Euro guard, who, like most Euro guards, is reputed to be a deadeye shooter, a wizard with the ball, and an all-around terrific player -- but who, like most Euro guards, is almost surely doomed not to come close to living up to his hype.

6. A change of status, from a maybe-playoff team that opponents at least had to respect to one of the jokes of the league.

I have to say I don't love it, but maybe I'm missing the true beauty of the Suns' situation.

 

[Ryanwb]

The Suns will come up with a beautiful story this summer when they don't sign any marquee free agents. They will say they are going to wait until next year, they are building through the draft...etc. Kobe Bryant will not be a Sun BTW.

The Marbury trade was a desperation move to help along this floundering franchise that is riddled with debt. All I can say is that I hope Amare suddenly learns to start shooting the ball like most PFs in this league or this team won't see the playoffs this decade.

 

[slinslin]

If we get

1. Howard or Okafor
2. Iguodala or Telfair or any other nice player in the mid first
3. Kobe best case in sign and trade so we can still go shopping
4. Camby

I will definately like it.

If we end up with FAs like Brent Barry and Mehmet Okur and 2 soft euro kids like Podkolzine and such, I won't like it.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by elindholm
So, let's take stock. In exchange for their best player and team leader, the Suns received:

1. Financial flexibility, which the Suns can use to pursue free agents who won't have the impact Marbury would have.

2. Improved draft position (and number of picks), which the Suns can use to draft one or more players who won't have the impact Marbury would have.

3. A journeyman point guard no one likes, with a bad contract the Suns won't be able to get out of.

4. An unskilled "project" big man, who, like most project big men, has size as his primary attribute and shows little else in the way of developed basketball skill.

5. A Euro guard, who, like most Euro guards, is reputed to be a deadeye shooter, a wizard with the ball, and an all-around terrific player -- but who, like most Euro guards, is almost surely doomed not to come close to living up to his hype.

6. A change of status, from a maybe-playoff team that opponents at least had to respect to one of the jokes of the league.

I have to say I don't love it, but maybe I'm missing the true beauty of the Suns' situation.

Gee, is it a coincidence that you posted this during a particularly horrible game? I think not.

 

[elindholm]

Gee, is it a coincidence that you posted this during a particularly horrible game? I think not.

No, of course it's not a coincidence. But everything on that list is applicable whether the Suns lose by 3 or 43, except maybe the "joke of the league" part.

 

[sly fly]

I'll wait until the off-season treasure hunt is finished until I make my decision on the Marbs trade outcome.

I do trust that the C's will make the right decison. Or, at least they'll try and make a splash. My guess, is that there just as pissed as we are.

But, what can you do??? They have a business to run, too.

Elind, "unskilled" seems a little harsh for someone who we've barely seen play. Unless you have a collection of DVD's we don't know about.

 

[elindholm]

If we get

1. Howard or Okafor
2. Iguodala or Telfair or any other nice player in the mid first
3. Kobe best case in sign and trade so we can still go shopping
4. Camby

Surely you can't mean all four of those. That is pure fantasy. The Suns would be very lucky to get two of those four.

 

[BMF]

You could throw in the development of JJ.

I didn't like the trade when it happened. I am impartial now. JJ is promising. I don't care for any of the other players we got. Steph, although I liked him, he was buggin me with his dominating of the ball- which I could take if we would win.

Draft picks could be interesting, but I am sick of reading the same stale scouting reports of projects. Okafor, Felton, Deng and Bogut are the best college players. I love Okafor, but he will not work while we have Amare ( if you asked me to pick...it would be Okafor). The others wont be in the draft.

 

[elindholm]

Elind, "unskilled" seems a little harsh for someone who we've barely seen play.

Don't you think he'd be getting time by now if he were anywhere near ready? Even Tsakalidis got more time than this when he first joined the team, and that was when (a) the Suns were pretty good, and (b) Tsakalidis had been playing basketball for only a few years.

Unless you have a collection of DVD's we don't know about.

I'll double-check my collection, but I usually don't spend too much time looking at the guys.

 

[slinslin]

My personal "to-do" list. If it worked out well for me.


- Dump White for expiring contracts before the deadline
- Pray for lottery luck, top 2 pick and Cavs to make the playoffs
- Draft Dwight Howard or Emeka, I go with Dwight because of size and youth for now
- Probaby draft Warrick or Telfair with the Knicks pick
- Draft the BPA with the Cavs pick if we have it
- Work out a sign and trade for Kobe instead of just signing him
- Ship Marion for Kobe
- Still got plenty of caproom left so sign Camby

Camby/Voshkul
Amare/Howard/Lampe
JJ/Zarko/Warrick
Kobe/Jacobsen
Barbosa/Vujanic
+Cavs draft pick (Iguodala or Luke Jackson) if not throw in Jacobsen in the sign and trade for Kobe.
IR: Eisley

Or maybe dump Eisley on the Bobcats with future picks and sign and trade Joe Johnson/Casey Jacobsen for Kobe.

Camby/Voshkul
Amare/Howard/Lampe
Marion/Zarko
Kobe/Iguodala
Barbosa/Vujanic
+ a cheaper FA like McDyess maybe.

Anyway that would be a great offseason and definately what Colangelo should be working on.
It is a lot of work but if Kobe wants to come to Phoenix it is possible and can all be pulled off unless we have bad luck in the draft.

Also even if we can't get Kobe. If you look at this team on paper we should still be much better.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Originally posted by elindholm
So, let's take stock. In exchange for their best player and team leader, the Suns received:

1. Financial flexibility, which the Suns can use to pursue free agents who won't have the impact Marbury would have.

2. Improved draft position (and number of picks), which the Suns can use to draft one or more players who won't have the impact Marbury would have.

3. A journeyman point guard no one likes, with a bad contract the Suns won't be able to get out of.

4. An unskilled "project" big man, who, like most project big men, has size as his primary attribute and shows little else in the way of developed basketball skill.

5. A Euro guard, who, like most Euro guards, is reputed to be a deadeye shooter, a wizard with the ball, and an all-around terrific player -- but who, like most Euro guards, is almost surely doomed not to come close to living up to his hype.

6. A change of status, from a maybe-playoff team that opponents at least had to respect to one of the jokes of the league.

I have to say I don't love it, but maybe I'm missing the true beauty of the Suns' situation.

It's rather funny following the Suns, for what seemed to be a decade, we had a very low draft pick, and at least the illusion of winning a championship most of the time. Now we have lots of money, in an extrordinarily weak free agency class, and high picks in a draft that seems extremely weak. I miss Marbury and his energy. I am also sick of not being a serious contender for a long time.

Sure, all the young guys may turn into stars, but they are as likely not to. I will always support the team, but sometimes doing nothing is as good as making changes. This was a team that many thought was capable of contending in the west in a few years. A few bad months, a team crippled by injury, and the entire plan is blown up. Patience is key here, but I am not pleased at this point.

 

[Ryanwb]

Originally posted by slinslin
My personal "to-do" list. If it worked out well for me.


- Dump White for expiring contracts before the deadline
- Pray for lottery luck, top 2 pick and Cavs to make the playoffs
- Draft Dwight Howard or Emeka, I go with Dwight because of size and youth for now
- Probaby draft Warrick or Telfair with the Knicks pick
- Draft the BPA with the Cavs pick if we have it
- Work out a sign and trade for Kobe instead of just signing him
- Ship Marion for Kobe
- Still got plenty of caproom left so sign Camby

Dude, you are living in fantasy world

 

[elindholm]

- Dump White for expiring contracts before the deadline

To whom? No one is going to take White for expiring contracts. The best chance for getting rid of White is to the Bobcats, but that would probably require a draft pick.

- Ship Marion for Kobe ... if not throw in Jacobsen in the sign and trade for Kobe.

It's doubtful that the Lakers want Marion, and they certainly don't want Jacobsen. Give me a break.

- Still got plenty of caproom left so sign Camby

Someone will offer Camby more than the MLE.

It is a lot of work but if Kobe wants to come to Phoenix

Which he doesn't. This franchise is the worst in the conference.

unless we have bad luck in the draft.

What's your definition of "bad luck"? Even if the Suns end up with the absolute worst record in the league, the chance of getting the first or second pick is less than 50%.

 

[Chaz]

Originally posted by elindholm
Still like the Marbury trade?

Yes, I did not like the Suns offense with Marbury. I don't think we were going anywhere with the most dominant player a point guard.
I like the makeup of the team better with JJ and Amare to build around. The season is still frustrating but that is not any different than it was with Steph.

 

[slinslin]

Someone will offer Camby more than the MLE.

Yes the Suns...

It's doubtful that the Lakers want Marion, and they certainly don't want Jacobsen. Give me a break.

If Kobe was about to leave and sign with the Suns I think the Lakers would gladly take Marion in return rather than just losing Kobe.

Which he doesn't. This franchise is the worst in the conference.

Kobe isn't stupid. This team has a bright future as all analysts say.
Kobe also wants to go to a good organization and team where he can prove himself more than anything I think.

To whom? No one is going to take White for expiring contracts. The best chance for getting rid of White is to the Bobcats, but that would probably require a draft pick.

The Raptors are looking for size. They can put together a package of players that they don't use and have expiring contracts.
Jahidi White doesn't have to be packaged with picks. He is not that bad and only one year on his contract after this. The Suns couldn't include 3M$ cash and it would pay more than half of his salary already.

Jahidi can be traded for expiring contracts, he already was this season.

 

[elindholm]

Yes the Suns...

Ah, right, because Bryant comes over in a sign-and-trade. My mistake, sorry.

If Kobe was about to leave and sign with the Suns I think the Lakers would gladly take Marion in return rather than just losing Kobe.

I'm not so sure. Instead of Marion, they could have any free agent this summer and any free agent next summer, both for the MLE. The Lakers are still the most pretigious organization in the league and I think most players would be willing to take pay cuts in order to play with them.

Kobe isn't stupid.

That's debatable...

This team has a bright future as all analysts say.

The same analysts who predicted that the Suns would be awful last season and good this season? Something tells me Bryant would trust his own instincts instead.

The Suns (could) include 3M$ cash and it would pay more than half of his salary already.

Okay, fair enough, I'll give you that one. White could be traded for expiring contracts if the right partner were identified. Or, he could be traded for a player that Charlotte would be a lot happier to take in the expansion draft.

 

[slinslin]

The Lakers minus Kobe are not under the cap and have to resign Malone and Payton to more respectable deals probably.

So why would they not take Marion?

In 2006 Marion would be their only played under contract when Shaq retires.

 

[schutd]

06?? Have I missed an announcement?

The Suns suck, D'Antoni is a great soundbyte guy. Thats about it to this point.

I cant remember being more apatheitc about this team. And Ive been a fan since 76.

I never watched sports with my dad as a kid. I always wondered why he wasnt into it like I was. Im starting to figure it out. Theres a lot more interesting things in life than letting something stupid like a bunch of overpaid primadonnas ruin your night, cause they all have their eyes on a 5 day weekend.

SO lame.

 

[elindholm]

So why would they not take Marion?

In 2006 Marion would be their only played under contract when Shaq retires.

That's one good reason right there. When it comes time for the Lakers to rebuild, why would they want to start off hampered by an overpaid complementary player who is signed through 2009?

 

[sly fly]

Originally posted by schutd
I never watched sports with my dad as a kid. I always wondered why he wasnt into it like I was. Im starting to figure it out. Theres a lot more interesting things in life than letting something stupid like a bunch of overpaid primadonnas ruin your night, cause they all have their eyes on a 5 day weekend.

SO lame.

Ouch. But, sorta true. What's wrong with us?

 

[slinslin]

Originally posted by elindholm
So why would they not take Marion?

In 2006 Marion would be their only played under contract when Shaq retires.

That's one good reason right there. When it comes time for the Lakers to rebuild, why would they want to start off hampered by an overpaid complementary player who is signed through 2009?

They would still have like 20M$ caproom or more that offseason to rebuild with Marion.

 

[creed]

So many things can happen in the offseaon that its WAY unfair to judge the trade now. I mean of course NY is looking like they got the better end of it... thats only because they dont have to wait on anything. The have Marbury right now and are getting allstar production.

The beauty on our end lies in the diversification of what we got and the flexibility it offers. Not one thing by itself has to equal Marbury to make this a great deal for us.

Getting a top three draft pick...getting Vujanic over here...getting a mid/high level free agent...getting/using NY draft picks...any or all of these things will have significant impact on the value of the trade.

Will everything go our way? Probably not. Does it all have to go our way? NO. We got enough goods in this trade to not feel ripped off IMO.

 

[binkar]

An unskilled big man??? How do you figure he is an unskilled big man? You have watched him all of about 5 minutes and he looked very skilled to me. Also hes 18 years old!

Second, I was a HUGE Marbury fan. But he wasnt gonna lead us to the title, plain and simple. And isnt that the point of everything to win it all.

Third, who are you to say that Vujanic will be no good. You have never watched him play one second.

Fourth, you cant look at this trade right now and judge it. We have no idea who we are drafting and how good that player will be, we have no idea how good Lampe will be, and we have no idea how good Vujanic will be.

Fifth, yes we got an extremely overpaid gaurd in return, but then what do you call Penny?

Just a few things to think about...

 

[George O'Brien]

I hate losing as much as the next guy. But the Suns were losing with Stephon and had little hope of getting any better. Let's remember what the Suns traded for:

1. A pospect center projected to go in the mid lottery before issues came up about his European contract.

2. The best guard in Europe.

3. One 2004 first round draft pick

4. A future first round draft pick

5. Enough cap room to sign free agents above the mid cap range in 2004

Even assuming that Eisley and Dice are dead weight loss, this is a lot. The Knicks now have a payroll of $91 million and will grow above $94 million next season. They will not get out of money trouble for a very long time.

Early in the season there was an extended debate over whether Marbury is overpaid. Next season he will make the same abount that Kobe is scheduled to make and more than T-Mac. In 2008-09 he will be making $21.9 million. That is a lot of money for a guy with a career shooting percentage of 43.2% and a career 3 point shooting of 31.9%.

At the time of the trade, I predicted that Marbury would do well in New York. He has. They have a team with several catch and shoot players, so his style works well for them.

But Marbury has a very physical style of play and has had some injuries. After initially defending Marbury and the contract, I have to admit I began to wonder if this contract was a mistake.

I have also come to the conclusion that Marbury's style was inconsistent with the talents of the other players on the team. The fact that Stephon would look for his own shot first and dominate the ball may have held JJ back more than his fragile psyche. Stephon did not like to push the ball on the break inspite of having some very athletic teammates. Stephon was extremely predictable and teams found ways to negate him. All too often he would keep shooting three's and kill the Suns offense.

Another issue is that I don't think Marbury is an espcially good defender. He's not horrible, but he's no Speedy Claxton either.

Don't get me wrong, Stephon is an exceptional player. But he is overpaid and the burder would have become very high in a few years. The Knicks apparently have an unlimited amount of money so it isn't a problem with them. But the Colangelos cannot afford a$94 million payroll for a team that is not even in the top five of a weak conference.

Maybe this trade will prove to be a big mistake, but at least the Suns have some hope things will get better. I'm not convinced we had much hope before.

 

[scotsman13]

personally the worst part of the trade has been reading all the bad nagitive stuff people have placed on this board night after night this season. with marbury we were lottery bound, without marbury we are still lottery bound but now we have some hope that we will get a better pick. you know just a couple years ago i would hear people blasting the suns because they were never going to get far with out building up a young core and staying with it, now all of you cry as we build a young core. dang the glass is haft full now give it time and it will fill up the rest of the way.

personally while i dont like watching the team loose i have seen a lot better basketball out of the team in team effort since the trade.