Stopping the Suns Break and Point Center

George O'Brien

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In another thread I outlined how the roles played on the Suns fast break define what kinds of players fit into the Suns style. http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=75969 In the discussion, it struck me that no one addressed the issue of how opponents try to offset the Suns break - and what the Suns can do to counter.

In brief, the Suns break has five roles: two wing players who go to either corner, a trigger man (think Nash) who pushes the ball up, a hammer who goes inside and finishes (think Stoudemire or even Hunter), and a trailer who comes up late and gets the ball as a kick out or pass from one of the wings and shoots a jumper.

How do you stop the Suns break? To understand how teams try to stop the Suns break, it is first necessary to understand how they try to stop other fast breaks. Then lookat what they have to do differently against the Suns.

For most teams, the purpose of the fast break is to get layups. For this reason, the standard approach to stop the break is to form a "picket line". This is three guys just inside the foul line who are lined up in the main paths to the basket. The outside guys will generally try to drive the offensive player to the baseline. The inside guy tries to push the offensive player toward one of the other defenders and cut off the angle to the basket.

Generally the picket line is set up using the guards and small forward. Their goal is to delay the offense long enough for their inside teammates get back.

As long as the goal is to make a layup, it is very hard to get through the picket line, even when with four or five guys. If anything, extra offensive players can get in each other's way. (Before D'Antoni, the Suns fast break was horrible because they had no spacing).

The Suns fast break negates the main virtue of the picket line -- by shooting over it. If the trigger gets into the foul line area, the defenders cannot cover both the paths to the basket and the wing shooters. Usually they will cover one wing and leave the other open.

This leaves only two guys on the picket line and a potential matchup problem. At best, they have a small forward trying to stop a bigger hammer going to the basket. They also have to worry about the open wing man going back door and the trailer who is left wide open when he gets into range.

Even great individual defenders struggle when the Suns get inside the paint if only three guys are back on defense. Somebody is open. Adding a fourth defender helpes when they "go small" to help get back quicker. However, most teams lose too much because their small lineup is not as good as the Suns small lineup.

Instead, most opposing coaches have decided their only hope is to stop the Suns break at the other end of the court. There are a variety of things they can do to limit the Suns break.

1. Efficient Offense: Teams that score most of the time they get the ball can slow the Suns break down. This is because the Suns don't run as well after made baskets. The fact they run at all is unusual, but generally even slower guys can get back most of the time if they don't turn the ball over and hit their shots. The problem is that this is not as easy as it sounds, even against the Suns defense.

2. Delay of Game Tactics: Even making the basket is not enough, teams try to delay the Suns taking the ball out of bounds by keeping the ball from the Suns player. They will try knocking the ball into the stands, holding the ball etc. It is worth risking a technical if their guys don't have to run as much.

3. Pound the Boards: A lot of teams focus their bigs on getting offensive rebounds. They not only keep the ball out of the Suns hands, but they get extra chances to score. If their bigs aren't fast enough to get back, then they might as well go for the rebounds. However, it does slow their guys getting back even more and it pulls both inside guys down to the baseline, where they have even further to run to get back on defense.

4. Hold their Man: A lot of teams try to keep the Suns from running by grabbing onto their man and not letting him get out and run. With the refs being focused on guys going down court, this is rarely called.

5. Attack the Suns rebounder: A common tactic is to try to steal the ball from the Suns rebounder. It is worth risking a foul if it keeps the rebounder from getting the ball to the trigger man quickly.

6. Attack the Trigger man: Quick point guards will try to harrass the trigger to keep him from getting the ball inside the paint quickly. Besides slowing the trigger, another goal is to force a long pass which gives the other defenders time to react. Tony Parker has had some success against Nash because he is so much quicker (this might not be true against Banks).


Obviously none of these tactics work well on a consistent basis. The Suns generally get a lot of open looks at the basket. When they hit them are very hard to beat. However, the increased emphasis on attacking the rebounder and the trigger is important. It has led D'Antoni to at least explore the notion of using the hammer as a "point center".

We can only guess what D'Antoni was describing in his conversation with Amare a year go after which Amare talked about becoming a "point center." However the rationale seems fairly strong in that it gives another way to push the ball.

As long as the break requires the trigger to push the ball, it means that teams will risk breaking up their picket line in order to harrass the the trigger. However, if the hammer brings the ball up in the role of point center, the opponent's fast break defense has to be completely altered.

For one thing, stealing the outlet pass is much harder if the opponent has to guard both the trigger and the hammer. Plus being in position to guard the hammer in the backcourt takes away from going to the offensive boards.

Once the hammer gets started there is no one in position to slow the hammer down when going down court. Even more important, if one defender is guarding a wing and another is back due to guarding the trigger, this puts the hammer one on one with an isolated defender who has at least one unguarded wing at the defender's back.

Point center is not entirely a new concept. Don Nelson used Marquis Daniels as a point forward with the Mans and briefly used Chris Webber as a kind of point center during his one year with the Warriors in the early 90's. However, fitting a point center/hammer into the Suns break is a major change in the Suns attack.

Obviously Diaw is ideally suited to this kind of point center hammer. It's not entirely clear why this wasn't used more last season. However, I expect to see more of it this training camp. Oddly enough, the Suns triggers makes this approach even more intriguing.

With the point center bringing up the ball, the opposing point guard has a problem. If he guards Nash on the outside, he leaves the other picket defender alone. If he stays on the picket line, Nash gets to play catch and shoot. Banks is not nearly the shooter Nash is, but more of a threat to play hammer because he's a terrific finisher.

I suspect the evolution of the point center hammer is likely to be a key element in the way the Suns look at new personnel. Lots of very good hammer prospects are completely ill suited to be point centers. This doesn't mean they can't contribute, but being able to use players in different roles seriously alters the way teams can try to defense the Suns break.
 
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Mainstreet

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George, you are very detailed in your analysis... perhaps too detailed for me. :)

I can say how the Suns slowed a very good fastbreaking team in the playoffs... Magic Johnson and the Lakers. I can't remember the year without looking it up.

The Lakers had an awesome fastbreak but the key to their fastbreak was the first outlet pass from Magic Johnson that started the break. The Suns solved this riddle by putting Dan Majerle on defense against Magic Johnson and not letting Magic make the quick outlet pass to start the break. By the time the playoffs were over and particularly the last game, it was the first time I have ever seen Magic Johnson tired.

So if I were a coach and I had only one strategy that I could consistently implement to slow the fastbreak, it would be to deny the first outlet pass up court.
 
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George O'Brien

George O'Brien

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Mainstreet said:
George, you are very detailed in your analysis... perhaps too detailed for me. :)

I can say how the Suns slowed a very good fastbreaking team in the playoffs... Magic Johnson and the Lakers. I can't remember the year without looking it up.

The Lakers had an awesome fastbreak but the key to their fastbreak was the first outlet pass from Magic Johnson that started the break. The Suns solved this riddle by putting Dan Majerle on defense against Magic Johnson and not letting Magic make the quick outlet pass to start the break. By the time the playoffs were over and particularly the last game, it was the first time I have ever seen Magic Johnson tired.

So if I were a coach and I had only one strategy that I could consistently implement to slow the fastbreak, it would be to deny the first outlet pass up court.

Getting the rebound and making a quick outlet is certainly key. The sad part with the Suns is that their best rebounder is also their best lead wing, ie Marion.
 

BC867

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George O'Brien said:
The sad part with the Suns is that their best rebounder is also their best lead wing, ie Marion.
But with the return of Amare, and the Matrix more of an 'opportunity' rebounder (and spending far less time at Power Forward), will Marion continue to be a focal point rebounder play after play?
 
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George O'Brien

George O'Brien

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BC867 said:
But with the return of Amare, and the Matrix more of an 'opportunity' rebounder (and spending far less time at Power Forward), will Marion continue to be a focal point rebounder play after play?

You'd hope not. Clearly Marion's great ability at catching long passes means he's best as lead wing on the break. Unfortunately, neither Amare nor Boris have proven to be exceptional rebounders. The other Suns need to work on position rebounding so they are not so dependent on Marion.
 

Errntknght

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Mainstreet, "The Lakers had an awesome fastbreak but the key to their fastbreak was the first outlet pass from Magic Johnson that started the break. The Suns solved this riddle by putting Dan Majerle on defense against Magic Johnson and not letting Magic make the quick outlet pass to start the break."

Since you said two times that Magic Johnson started the break by making, not receiving, the outlet pass I guess that is what you intended to say - but I certainly don't remember any Laker team where that was how the fast breaks began. Kurt Rambis, AC Green and Jabbar are the guys that got the rebounds on the teams I recall and threw the outlet pass to Magic.
 

Mainstreet

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Errntknght said:
Mainstreet, "The Lakers had an awesome fastbreak but the key to their fastbreak was the first outlet pass from Magic Johnson that started the break. The Suns solved this riddle by putting Dan Majerle on defense against Magic Johnson and not letting Magic make the quick outlet pass to start the break."

Since you said two times that Magic Johnson started the break by making, not receiving, the outlet pass I guess that is what you intended to say - but I certainly don't remember any Laker team where that was how the fast breaks began. Kurt Rambis, AC Green and Jabbar are the guys that got the rebounds on the teams I recall and threw the outlet pass to Magic.

I agree that most of the Laker type fastbreaks were started by their inside rebounding but another part of their fastbreaks were started by Magic receiving the ball out of bounds and initiating the fastbreak. In the last playoff series I remember the Suns playing the Lakers with Magic involved, Magic would frequently receive the inbound pass and make the long outlet pass upcourt on the fastbreak. As Magic was so tall he could see over the top of the defenses and quickly make the pass upcourt for easy baskets. In this series the Suns decided the best way to stop this from occurring is to have Dan Majerle not allow Magic to make the easy outlet pass when he received the ball from out of bounds. Majerle was tall enough and strong enough to guard Magic and he actually took a physical toll on him in this series.

IMO, Magic was one of the best PG's to ever play the game. In fact Kareem and Magic would undoubtedly make my own personal all-time dream team. It's too bad Magic's career was shortened by illness, because I never fully appreciated his skills the first few years in the league. What made Magic so great, IMO, is that he could win a ball game in the closing seconds so many ways. I seen him beat the Suns with his skills so many times in close games I do not even want to remember.

I had a friend who was a Laker fan who constantly liked to tell me how the Lakers were always going to beat the Suns... so I only begrudgingly gave Magic his due at the time. Later I came to realize his greatness.
 
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George O'Brien

George O'Brien

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I'm not sure Magic was the greatest (I'd still go with Oscar Robertson), but there is little doubt that Magic was one of the most difficult matchups in basketball. He was so much bigger than his opponents yet so skilled.
 

Errntknght

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Back to the main post.

I don't see that you've established that a 'point center hammer' is that valuable. Listing Marquis Daniels as an example is actually damaging to your argument as he is not remotely a point center nor is he a feared hammer. Heck, Boris has a long way to go to be considered a hammer.

Ideally, a fast break involves no dribbling, with the ball being advanced by passes. In fact, the Suns have quite a few of that kind though our mental image of a Suns fast break is Nash, hair flying, dribbling relentlessly upcourt then throwing a brilliant pass. Someone like Boris is going to be helpful on the fast break because he can pass very well on the move and has good court vision but I wouldn't say that D'Antoni should try to structure the fast break around him bringing the ball upcourt.
 
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George O'Brien

George O'Brien

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Errntknght said:
Back to the main post.

I don't see that you've established that a 'point center hammer' is that valuable. Listing Marquis Daniels as an example is actually damaging to your argument as he is not remotely a point center nor is he a feared hammer. Heck, Boris has a long way to go to be considered a hammer.

Ideally, a fast break involves no dribbling, with the ball being advanced by passes. In fact, the Suns have quite a few of that kind though our mental image of a Suns fast break is Nash, hair flying, dribbling relentlessly upcourt then throwing a brilliant pass. Someone like Boris is going to be helpful on the fast break because he can pass very well on the move and has good court vision but I wouldn't say that D'Antoni should try to structure the fast break around him bringing the ball upcourt.

I watched Chris Webber in his rookie year do some point center work and it caused real problems for opponents. However, it should not be used in place of passing the ball, but only when the trigger is being closely guarded.

After watching the way Parker would harrass Nash and slow his progress up the court, I would suggest it is a much greater problem than you think. In any case, the idea of having the trigger and hammer passing back and forth is ideal, but don't try it with someone like Hunter.
 

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