Stoudemire agrees to five-year deal with Knicks

[Evil Ash]

That could be a possibility as well, although I'm not sure Sarver wants to be saddled with Lee's contract starting at $12 mil for the next 5 years.

He might be to save face

 

[PDXChris]

I thought the same as you at first, but I think the trade would be Stoudemire s&t to NY, Lee s&t to Chicago, and Warrick s&t + TPE to us. I'm not sure how picks would be distributed. The other scenario would be just dealing with NY and getting a huge TPE and a 2nd rounder back in exchange... Just think what an owner willing to spend and a savvy GM could do with a TPE that big around the trade deadline.

I will just do the Warrick S&T from the Bulls to the Suns for just the trade exception and even throw in a protected 1st rounder to the Suns. That will make it much easier for the Bulls to get Wade and Bosh without giving anything up. You guys in?

 

[Covert Rain]

So? Right now it's Amare+scrubs. And that doesn't make a playoff team.

So, my comment was specific to Amare + another major FA. My comments obviously had nothing to do with Amare + Scrubs. I thought that was pretty clear.

However, I still disagree. It would take Amare going on another half season tear in which he was unstoppable and it would be enough for an 8th seed in the East. We are not talking the West here.

 

[PDXChris]

So, my comment was specific to Amare + another major FA. My comments obviously had nothing to do with Amare + Scrubs. I thought that was pretty clear.

However, I still disagree. It would take Amare going on another half season tear in which he was unstoppable and it would be enough for an 8th seed in the East. We are not talking the West here.

Doesn't matter anyways, here is how it is going to play out. These things are never wrong, it already has three of them right and it was my first spin.

 

[Sunburn]

So, my comment was specific to Amare + another major FA. My comments obviously had nothing to do with Amare + Scrubs. I thought that was pretty clear.

However, I still disagree. It would take Amare going on another half season tear in which he was unstoppable and it would be enough for an 8th seed in the East. We are not talking the West here.

You specifically said earlier that just the addition of Amare makes the Knicks an instant playoff team. I'm sorry but Amare + scrubs does not make the playoffs. Even in the East. Even with another ungodly second half tear by Amare it wouldn't be enough. It's not about people hating on Amare. It's about him being their ENTIRE team. They've gutted everything else. I don't remember Amare averaging 50 points and 20 boards a game the last half of the season last year. You're giving the guy way too much credit. i don't even think
Wade or Lebron could get that team to the playoffs as it stands, and they actually play defense.

 

[leclerc]

Congratulations to Amare! Thanks for all the years in Phoenix!

Good luck and bon voyage!




Edit: If we get Lee that means next to no PT for Earl Clark...

 

[Covert Rain]

You specifically said earlier that just the addition of Amare makes the Knicks an instant playoff team. I'm sorry but Amare + scrubs does not make the playoffs. Even in the East. Even with another ungodly second half tear by Amare it wouldn't be enough. It's not about people hating on Amare. It's about him being their ENTIRE team. They've gutted everything else. I don't remember Amare averaging 50 points and 20 boards a game the last half of the season last year. You're giving the guy way too much credit. i don't even think
Wade or Lebron could get that team to the playoffs as it stands, and they actually play defense.

There were 4 teams that made the playoffs in the east with nearly .500 records. I think with Amare commanding double teams and opening things on the outside, this team could be a .500 team and make the playoffs in the East. They were only 12 wins out of the 8th spot.

If your telling me that Amare can make up for 12 wins then I think your underestimating his impact. Again, this is not the West.

 

[Divide Et Impera]

Amare doesn't command double teams on his own. He only commands them in the presence of other good players. I seem to remember the Spurs hiding their weakest defensive player on Amare for stretches AND I seem to recall spots where Tony Parker would guard him - and I'm not even talking about this season when we swept them. Amare is also a bonehead when he has to put the ball on the floor and create his own shot. I remember posting a thread about him getting molested by Kenyon Martin and a slew of other so-called lesser PFs on a nightly basis....

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Amare doesn't command double teams on his own. He only commands them in the presence of other good players. I seem to remember the Spurs hiding their weakest defensive player on Amare for stretches AND I seem to recall spots where Tony Parker would guard him - and I'm not even talking about this season when we swept them. Amare is also a bonehead when he has to put the ball on the floor and create his own shot. I remember posting a thread about him getting molested by Kenyon Martin and a slew of other so-called lesser PFs on a nightly basis....

If you don't double Amare in NY, he would contend for the single season scoring award. Amare could have gone off for 30 a night on this team too. I'll take Amare's offensive game against any 4 or 5 in the league single covered.

 

[Covert Rain]

Amare doesn't command double teams on his own. He only commands them in the presence of other good players. I seem to remember the Spurs hiding their weakest defensive player on Amare for stretches AND I seem to recall spots where Tony Parker would guard him - and I'm not even talking about this season when we swept them. Amare is also a bonehead when he has to put the ball on the floor and create his own shot. I remember posting a thread about him getting molested by Kenyon Martin and a slew of other so-called lesser PFs on a nightly basis....

Then we have not been watching the same player. The Spurs, Lakers and Portland all double teamed Amare at times. In the 2nd half of the season teams were double teaming Amare left and right.

Some teams will always take a chance at playing Amare straight up. However, Amare will get 20+ per game again and we he does teams are going to try and shut him down.

 

[Divide Et Impera]

No, I watched Amare on THIS team, which is a team with other very good players on it - which was my immediate caveat you missed. That other teams - WHEN THEY WERE ABLE TO SLOW OUR TEAM ROLL - hid their worst defensive player on Amare is telling and I know from seeing with my own eyes AND from the thread I posted here that Amare gets molested when he tries to drive the ball himself.

Now, I have also said that when Amare is into the game, he is an all world talent, but that's a BIG question mark as he doesn't have the psychological makeup to be into the game night in and night out. He's a loafer who may not even be halfway into the game....

 

[JCSunsfan]

Then we have not been watching the same player. The Spurs, Lakers and Portland all double teamed Amare at times. In the 2nd half of the season teams were double teaming Amare left and right.

Some teams will always take a chance at playing Amare straight up. However, Amare will get 20+ per game again and we he does teams are going to try and shut him down.

If teams do not double Amare, he will score 30 a game and NY will have the most efficient offense in basketball. 1 on 1, Amare will shoot 60%.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

No, I watched Amare on THIS team, which is a team with other very good players on it - which was my immediate caveat you missed. That other teams - WHEN THEY WERE ABLE TO SLOW OUR TEAM ROLL - hid their worst defensive player on Amare is telling and I know from seeing with my own eyes AND from the thread I posted here that Amare gets molested when he tries to drive the ball himself.

Now, I have also said that when Amare is into the game, he is an all world talent, but that's a BIG question mark as he doesn't have the psychological makeup to be into the game night in and night out. He's a loafer who may not even be halfway into the game....

The Lakers hid Gasol, Bynum, and Odom?? Spurs hid Duncan?? Porland hid Aldridge and Camby???

 

[Covert Rain]

No, I watched Amare on THIS team, which is a team with other very good players on it - which was my immediate caveat you missed. That other teams - WHEN THEY WERE ABLE TO SLOW OUR TEAM ROLL - hid their worst defensive player on Amare is telling and I know from seeing with my own eyes AND from the thread I posted here that Amare gets molested when he tries to drive the ball himself.

Now, I have also said that when Amare is into the game, he is an all world talent, but that's a BIG question mark as he doesn't have the psychological makeup to be into the game night in and night out. He's a loafer who may not even be halfway into the game....

That simply isn't true. I watched some of the other teams best players guarding Amare much more then hiding their worst defensive players. Whenever Amare caught the ball anywhere near the paint they doubled him. They doubled him NOT because other players on the court were good. They doubled him to force the ball out of Amare's hands.

You might have seen some more strategic one on one play against him in the playoffs. However, the primary crux of the point was that during the regular season (especially the 2nd half) teams doubled Amare all the time. That IMO will equate to the Knicks getting 12 more wins or so which should be enough to make the playoffs in the East.

 

[Mainstreet]

The Lakers hid Gasol, Bynum, and Odom?? Spurs hid Duncan?? Porland hid Aldridge and Camby???

I'm right there as well. The Lakers were only able to stop Amare because they had that huge frontline. It was like a blockade to the basket.

 

[SirStefan32]

I was never in favor of giving Amare $20M per year, and I am glad he is gone, but some people are underestimating his offensive game. He is the best scoring power forward in the game. While he does not have a good back to the basket game, he can score just about every way imaginable. Now, he can't guard a chair, and he rebounds like a shooting guard, but as far as offense goes, he is the best among power forwards.

 

[Chaplin]

People aren't underestimating Amare's offense at all. We're talking about a player who is getting paid 20 million a year and has no defensive ability. That's the problem, and it's a pretty big problem and the focus of what everyone has been talking about.

 

[Covert Rain]

People aren't underestimating Amare's offense at all. We're talking about a player who is getting paid 20 million a year and has no defensive ability. That's the problem, and it's a pretty big problem and the focus of what everyone has been talking about.

I think people get it Chap. Remember that we have been one of the worst defensive teams for years and still managed to put up lots of wins. We have had arguably the worst defensive one two punch in Amare and Nash and yet racked up tons of wins.

So, it's a big problem but one that should not deter them from racking up enough regular season wins to get to the playoffs. We are talking only 10 to 12 more wins and you just added one of the best scoring PF's in the league to your team.

 

[elindholm]

If teams do not double Amare, he will score 30 a game and NY will have the most efficient offense in basketball. 1 on 1, Amare will shoot 60%.

I guess it depends on how you define "double." If you mean that no one offers any defensive help at all, then you're probably right. But what a lot of teams did was give Stoudemire single coverage 12-15 feet away, then collapse in the middle once he started his move. That was a pretty effective strategy, and my guess is that if you looked it up on one of those stat-tracking sites, you'd see that Stoudemire is at less than 1.0 point per possession under those circumstances. (The times he gets fouled are offset by his turnover rate, which is quite high.)

The key to Stoudemire's offensive game is his little jump shot from the elbow. When he's confident in that, he can use it as a primary weapon, and then he becomes very difficult to guard. But there were lots of times when either he wasn't making it, or he didn't want to shoot it, or he wanted to prove he could score inside, or he was following a coach's instruction to try to get to the line. Without that shot and without Nash setting him up on pick-and-rolls, he's surprisingly limited offensively.

You'll note that, historically, all of the great scoring PFs have had an 18-foot shot they can or could make consistently (Duncan, Malone, Webber, Garnett, Nowitzki, even Barkley). People rave about Stoudemire's jumper like it's some special skill that turns him into a superpower, but actually it's an essential ingredient to him being an elite scorer. Without it, he's only a "very good" offensive player.

 

[Go Devils]

Amare = a 6'9 Dominique Wilkens and will help the Knicks as much as Nique helped the Clippers when he was traded their for Manning.

 

[AfroSuns]

No, I watched Amare on THIS team, which is a team with other very good players on it - which was my immediate caveat you missed. That other teams - WHEN THEY WERE ABLE TO SLOW OUR TEAM ROLL - hid their worst defensive player on Amare is telling and I know from seeing with my own eyes AND from the thread I posted here that Amare gets molested when he tries to drive the ball himself.

Now, I have also said that when Amare is into the game, he is an all world talent, but that's a BIG question mark as he doesn't have the psychological makeup to be into the game night in and night out. He's a loafer who may not even be halfway into the game....

Wow, if i didn't know better i would ask if you have seen Amare played. Maybe you mean he sucks on rebound/defense when he is not into the game. on offense? He is usually 90% there.
Barring injury to Amare, i believe the Knicks will get to the playoffs next season, without another key player they probably wont go past 1st around.

 

[SweetD]

Since none of these contracts go into affect until later the Suns still have a chance for a sign and trade which could land us Lee which a Lee for Amare swap would ok in my book.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Since none of these contracts go into affect until later the Suns still have a chance for a sign and trade which could land us Lee which a Lee for Amare swap would ok in my book.

Ha, at what cost? Would you pay Lee the 15+ per year that he'd likely want? If you think Amare's a bad defender, you'll be aghast at Lee. No player in the league was abused more in the post than Lee.

Of course, none of this will ever happen, so it's not something we'll have to worry about.

 

[SweetD]

Ha, at what cost? Would you pay Lee the 15+ per year that he'd likely want? If you think Amare's a bad defender, you'll be aghast at Lee. No player in the league was abused more in the post than Lee.

Of course, none of this will ever happen, so it's not something we'll have to worry about.

I would expect Lopez to play alot more than he did this year. Lee is a poor defender but there wasn't much in NY to work with. Also Mike D's system in not about D at all. Rebounding is where we needed help last year and that is something Lee can do.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Ha, at what cost? Would you pay Lee the 15+ per year that he'd likely want? If you think Amare's a bad defender, you'll be aghast at Lee. No player in the league was abused more in the post than Lee.

I wonder who will be first to challenge your statement by mentioning one of our own players.

Steve