Stoudemire/Barbosa argument....

[da_suns_fan]

I was at the game tonight....section 101 Row 1 (don't ask me how).

Right behind the Suns bench...what an experience!

But anyways, at the end of the third quarter, the Suns were up by twenty and the players came back to the bench.

Stoudemire was FURIOUS!!! He was pissed at Barbosa for being a ball hog. He told Diaw, Marion (who was sitting on the bench.....I couldn't tell what Marion said back) and a couple of others.

"He's being a ballhog!"

Dan D'Antoni came over to talk to him...he had a little piece of paper that he was trying to explain something to Amare about. Amare said something like "Yeah but he's hogging the ball...blah blah blah".

Amare was just running his mouth....i felt so bad for LB who was just five feet away sitting on the bench.

It was simply awful to see the unawkwardness of the rest of the guys. Sean Marks and Diaw were just standing there with a look like "I don't know what to do". They just kind of all looked at each other as if they knew to just keeps their mouths shut while Amare had his tantrum.

Eventually, Barbosa (still sitting on the bench) raised his hand up to Amare (on the other side of the bench still standing up) as if to say "sorry".

Amare gave him a thumbs up and everything appeared to be ok.

 

[dodie53]

wow.

 

[HooverDam]

I'm sure George Mikan yelled at his team mates too, its just in todays world of increased access and 24 hour media coverage, we see it more often. Lets just enjoy the blow out.

 

[cly2tw]

Well, it's true that LB is a ball hog. And the coaching stuff is hypocrites to limit Amare's touches and particular not work on featuring him at low post, I believe with the rationale of for the good of the System. Yet, LB has the free pass for working on his drives against 3 defenders several times (in the 1st half) on fast breaks. And it was fact that once Nash sat, Amare didn't touch the ball once in 5-7 possessions. Next time it happens, the coaching gotta call a timeout to stop it right away. If you pledge something to Amare for sharing blahblah, be consistent!

Or maybe Amare is so frustrated, that he just wants to force his way out of the team. He said as much on the rumor for going to Hawks in the offseason that he wouldn't mind it etc.

I'm really pissed by the condition of the team!

 

[scXfreakX]

Everyone gets mad at each other. LB has been somewhat of a ballhog, but that doesn't justify Amare yelling at him. Thats something they need to handle with the coaches. There will be chemistry issues on almost every team. This stuff happens. Hopefully, its just a little thing.

 

[az1965]

The team internally seems to be in a mess, usually indicative of the coach' mismanagement.

 

[WuRaider]

post the pics you posted on phxsuns.net we cant see those attachments over there

 

[az1965]

Everyone gets mad at each other. LB has been somewhat of a ballhog, but that doesn't justify Amare yelling at him. Thats something they need to handle with the coaches. There will be chemistry issues on almost every team. This stuff happens. Hopefully, its just a little thing.

it is not an isolated incident. All season long, several players have voiced their concerns over the chemistry issues and their have been visual displays on the sidelines involving mostly Amare - Amare/Raja, Amare/Banks, now Amare/Barbosa scuffle...

This team is going to change next off season significantly, if not by this trading deadline.

 

[da_suns_fan]

post the pics you posted on phxsuns.net we cant see those attachments over there

I will tomorrow.

 

[cly2tw]

it is not an isolated incident. All season long, several players have voiced their concerns over the chemistry issues and their have been visual displays on the sidelines involving mostly Amare - Amare/Raja, Amare/Banks, now Amare/Barbosa scuffle...

This team is going to change next off season significantly, if not by this trading deadline.

Get rid of DA, and his system, the problems go away.

 

[Ciani]

Get rid of DA, and his system, the problems go away.

Exactly. Not being contender = no problem.

Actually, Amare is right, when Barbs play the point, the ball movement is poor.

 

[DeAnna]

Well, it's true that LB is a ball hog. And the coaching stuff is hypocrites to limit Amare's touches and particular not work on featuring him at low post, I believe with the rationale of for the good of the System. Yet, LB has the free pass for working on his drives against 3 defenders several times (in the 1st half) on fast breaks. And it was fact that once Nash sat, Amare didn't touch the ball once in 5-7 possessions. Next time it happens, the coaching gotta call a timeout to stop it right away. If you pledge something to Amare for sharing blahblah, be consistent!

Or maybe Amare is so frustrated, that he just wants to force his way out of the team. He said as much on the rumor for going to Hawks in the offseason that he wouldn't mind it etc.

I'm really pissed by the condition of the team!

Yep, he does tend to be a ball hog sometimes - but he usually gets the best matchup and ends up scoring.

It's a pretty well known fact that D'Antoni's system is not predicated on "feeding the ball" to any one player (not even Stat). You can call for it until you're blue in the face, but that's the fact!

Whomever is open, gets the ball. If Stat is beating his man and getting open, then he'll get the ball. Simple.

 

[DeAnna]

Exactly. Not being contender = no problem.

Actually, Amare is right, when Barbs play the point, the ball movement is poor.

True, which is why they shouldn't play him at point - he's got a scorer's mentality.

 

[cly2tw]

Yep, he does tend to be a ball hog sometimes - but he usually gets the best matchup and ends up scoring.

It's a pretty well known fact that D'Antoni's system is not predicated on "feeding the ball" to any one player (not even Stat). You can call for it until you're blue in the face, but that's the fact!

Whomever is open, gets the ball. If Stat is beating his man and getting open, then he'll get the ball. Simple.

Watch the games. You will see what we are talking about. Amare offers himself waiting for a pass and LB just ignores it and goes his way into paint. Amare not touching the ball once in 6 min. normally also means that the ball is just swung around the perimeters which often just ends up with a LB drive. It's not really ball sharing what DA's system requires. But it's just easy for DA to let LB try whatever is doable to bridge the time when Nash sits. That's the fact. It's not like Amare is a black hole. He was not saying that he didn't shoot the ball enough but just complained that he didn't get involved in the non-Nash offense. And there you go with an explanation why the offense stagnates without Nash.

 

[JS22]

If anything, Amare should get the ball 80-90% of the time when Nash isn't on the floor. The offense dies without Nash. May as well give the ball to someone who can basically score at will.

 

[DeAnna]

Watch the games. .

I do. I've Tivo'd every game since 2004. I agree with you that LB tends to be a ball hog. I'm talking about when Nash is on the floor.

 

[msdundee]

If anything, Amare should get the ball 80-90% of the time when Nash isn't on the floor. The offense dies without Nash. May as well give the ball to someone who can basically score at will.

" ...when Nash isn't on the floor." That makes sense, although those percentages might be high depending on the opponent and who's on Amare. Teams will be quick to adjust but Amare's pretty good at passing out of the double team if he chooses to do so. As of late, Nash sits out about 12 minutes a game, plenty of time to see if it's one of those nights when Amare actually can score at will.

The general philosophy of turning Amare into Kobe II for 48 minutes sounds less appealing because historically the one-man-team doesn't do so well, even if the one man is Kobe or KG.

 

[BC867]

If anything, Amare should get the ball 80-90% of the time when Nash isn't on the floor. The offense dies without Nash. May as well give the ball to someone who can basically score at will.

How true. When Steve goes to bench, we go from the best Point Guard in the league . . . to:

Point-undersized-shooting-guards
Point-forwards
Point-centers

That's an extreme change in chemistry on a regular basis.

I don't blame Amare for reacting.

He can't confront the Head Coach, so he does the only thing he can. He confronts the Point-undersized-shooting-guards, the Point-forwards or the Point-center.

I give him credit for doing it on-the-job instead of through the Press.

We need a legitimate backup Point Guard, similar in style to Steve Nash.

 

[cly2tw]

" ...when Nash isn't on the floor." That makes sense, although those percentages might be high depending on the opponent and who's on Amare. Teams will be quick to adjust but Amare's pretty good at passing out of the double team if he chooses to do so. As of late, Nash sits out about 12 minutes a game, plenty of time to see if it's one of those nights when Amare actually can score at will.

The general philosophy of turning Amare into Kobe II for 48 minutes sounds less appealing because historically the one-man-team doesn't do so well, even if the one man is Kobe or KG.

It's not about turning Amare into Kobe II. It's about working on different viable alternatives other than Nash dribbling. In fact, even with Nash on court, we should at least try more plays with him playing off the ball. We are not running teams out of the gym these days. So, the need for Nash controlling ball for speed is less strong. Some times, less is more.

 

[msdundee]

It's not about turning Amare into Kobe II. It's about working on different viable alternatives other than Nash dribbling. In fact, even with Nash on court, we should at least try more plays with him playing off the ball. We are not running teams out of the gym these days. So, the need for Nash controlling ball for speed is less strong. Some times, less is more.

From last night's recap:

"Steve Nash had a near-flawless game, five Phoenix players scored 17 points or more. ........
Nash was 6-for-6 from the field and 4-for-4 from the free throw line for 17 points with 13 assists. He had one turnover in 28 minutes. .......
Amare Stoudemire scored 23 points, Raja Bell 20, Leandro Barbosa 19 and Shawn Marion 18 for the Suns, who shot 54 percent from the field."

That's how all teams would like to win. You did say "sometimes" but less of Nash is rarely more. And going back to the topic of this thread, it's hard to see why Amare was complaining since he claims winning is his top priority. We won, and he was the top scorer.

 

[Suns_fan69]

I absolutely agree that LB is a ball hog but that is a piss poor way to react. For a co-captain, Stoudemire still needs to mature quite a bit.

 

[Nash2Amare]

Any links to this?

<<Has a hard time believing dsf

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Yep, he does tend to be a ball hog sometimes - but he usually gets the best matchup and ends up scoring.

It's a pretty well known fact that D'Antoni's system is not predicated on "feeding the ball" to any one player (not even Stat). You can call for it until you're blue in the face, but that's the fact!

Whomever is open, gets the ball. If Stat is beating his man and getting open, then he'll get the ball. Simple.

sorry deanna, that only really applies to half the equation. that only happens when nash is in the game. the ball does not always find the open man when nash is out. it usually finds barbs overdribbling, shooting tight shots, or driving on numbers. i love barbs, but without a structured system or nash the ball does not find the open man.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Any links to this?

<<Has a hard time believing dsf

links? the dude said he was at the game and saw it.

 

[da_suns_fan]

some pics