Stoudemire/Barbosa argument....

[Arizona's Finest]

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Amare has no business being a captain this year. Seriously.

I just don't get it. Amare is the second best player on a team with the two time MVP and is one of the top ten players in the league. Depending on who you believe he is one of the hardest at working on his game and really is the fulcrum behind any success we hope to have in the playoffs. And for all the killing of his defense - do you know he is actually almost a whole block above his career average this year?

He has flaws, Yes. But instead of focusing on his weaknesses why don't you focus on what he does best for this team.

Because there is no one else his size in the NBA that fills it up like he does. And we are not nearly as legitimate without him. Period.

And BTW - as he is most of the time when he fusses - he is right. Barbosa is a ball hogging chucker.

Does anyone else find it ridiculous that Barbosa takes the most shots on a team that has two first team all NBA players as well as couple of 4+ time all stars?

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Why? Just because he haven't publicly called out his teammates yet like the other captain did?

Maybe that's the reason they made him captain, to harness him a little with responsibility.

Skipping practice, complaining about shots, yelling at teammates constantly and not in a constructive way.

It's petulant and immature.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Actually, LB had two good passes to Amare, one on a break and one feeding him in the post on a semi fastbreak.

LB's problem is like DA's, tunnel vision. He can't see development of the game 2 steps ahead, like a nomal PG should. Consequently, he always goes to the weak side of the pick and wonder why there are so many defenders and no teammates for easy passes. Well, sometimes his speed is simply too much for them but he never seems to understand the benefit of actually going to the strong side of the pick which would get the pick-setting teammate involved in the ensuing play immediately.

But at least, the coaching must have told him to pass more and he should improve with failures this way.

 

[cly2tw]

Skipping practice, complaining about shots, yelling at teammates constantly and not in a constructive way.

It's petulant and immature.

Well, complaining about "touches" is not quite the same as complaining about "shots". Recently, with more "touches" (but not really more "shots") for Amare, the offense has been flowing a lot better. And we all complain about the stagnation of 2nd unit offense constantly, where the most constant problem has been no "touches" for Amare for long stretches. So, the evidence is that his "demand" was meant for the good of the team, at least if you give him benefit of doubt.

Also, LB seems to have gotten clearer instruction now to look for opening teammates. You wonder whether it'd be the case without Amare making a fuss of it. And you have to ask why it had to take this route for the coaching staff to get the message to LB in the first place!

 

[BC867]

Three team Captains in a 5-man rotation demeans the responsibility. It's overkill.

Like the old saying, "Who's in charge here?"

Then when Amare speaks out (at the bench, not to the Press), he's made fun of.

Of course he is. He one-third of a Captain.

He didn't name himself Captain.

 

[nowagimp]

Skipping practice, complaining about shots, yelling at teammates constantly and not in a constructive way.

It's petulant and immature.

This is true, amare does not set the example for a team leader. His effort on defense is mediocre. HE deserves criticisms as his man often fills it up with easy shots. Barbosa had 6 assists last night, was obviously looking to move the ball more. He has taken his criticism and made an adjustment, good. Lets see amare adjust and hustle on D, he surely knows his D is a problem, even Rasho Nesterovic had his best game of the year against amare. Chemistry is a key issue with the suns, they obviously play their best when the ball moves and when they hustle on defense, get turnovers and deflections. Amare is a chemistry disruptor when he complains publicly about other players. Rebounding is also a key spot and amare can help there with more effort. Amare needs to shut up and lead by example, channel his "issues" to the coaching staff behind the scenes as much as possible.

Steve Nash is a true leader, the way Nash constructively criticizes, without finger pointing, is the best way for a leader. Amare should average about 15 shots a game, and barbosa should average less than he does. The problem is that with grant hill out and raja shooting badly for weeks, Barbs has accumulated(and forced) more shots a game. When everyone is healthy and Diaw becomes more consistent, Barbs shot number will drop and Amares will go up as the spacing will be better when all the suns shooters are productive. Opponents are more successful when they can force barbosa to shoot from the point guard position while nash is on the bench. Hopefully that is soon coming to an end as Hill returns and Diaw (hopefully) stays out of his cocoon, LB will play more spot up SG where he is most effective.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

This is true, amare does not set the example for a team leader. His effort on defense is mediocre. HE deserves criticisms as his man often fills it up with easy shots. Barbosa had 6 assists last night, was obviously looking to move the ball more. He has taken his criticism and made an adjustment, good. Lets see amare adjust and hustle on D, he surely knows his D is a problem, even Rasho Nesterovic had his best game of the year against amare. Chemistry is a key issue with the suns, they obviously play their best when the ball moves and when they hustle on defense, get turnovers and deflections. Amare is a chemistry disruptor when he complains publicly about other players. Rebounding is also a key spot and amare can help there with more effort. Amare needs to shut up and lead by example, channel his "issues" to the coaching staff behind the scenes as much as possible.

Steve Nash is a true leader, the way Nash constructively criticizes, without finger pointing, is the best way for a leader. Amare should average about 15 shots a game, and barbosa should average less than he does. The problem is that with grant hill out and raja shooting badly for weeks, Barbs has accumulated(and forced) more shots a game. When everyone is healthy and Diaw becomes more consistent, Barbs shot number will drop and Amares will go up as the spacing will be better when all the suns shooters are productive. Opponents are more successful when they can force barbosa to shoot from the point guard position while nash is on the bench. Hopefully that is soon coming to an end as Hill returns and Diaw (hopefully) stays out of his cocoon, LB will play more spot up SG where he is most effective.

I think only the fans are caught up in the "mystique" of the 'C'. It means something in hockey - it means very little besides ego in basketball.

Give it to the two best damn players on the team and get over it.

 

[nowagimp]

I think only the fans are caught up in the "mystique" of the 'C'. It means something in hockey - it means very little besides ego in basketball.

Give it to the two best damn players on the team and get over it.

Yeah, only suns fans ... and the best player on the team -Steve Nash- think chemistry is important.

 

[Black Jesus]

well our other Co-Captain (Marion) demanded a trade in the offseason...

 

[nashman]

I don't think Marion has ever DEMANDED a trade, i think it was more of I am tired of the trade talks if your gonna do it just do it. To me thats not demanding a trade.

 

[cly2tw]

Yeah, only suns fans ... and the best player on the team -Steve Nash- think chemistry is important.

If Nash thinks, and coaches and many on the team with him, that he is the best player on the team and all what the team does on court must go through him, then we have the origin for your CHEMESTRY problem, since Amare and Marion don't share this view.

I think the coaching staff tried to press Amare into accepting this "decoy" role, but Amare apparently was not so much a team guy to just go along with the corporate line. Nash was part of the "not passing to Amare unless he defends better" discipline that was based on "we can win without Amare as evidence in 05/06".

But, it became apparent that the league has caught up with Suns style so much so that we are not long outrunning them for easy wins. Kerr apparently is against trading Amare for scrubs, not sharing the illusion that 05/06 version of Suns could win anything. This all put pressure on coaching and Nash to accept what they are dealt with and give Amare what he wanted, "not just a decoy". And the Suns have been playing a lot better.

As I said somewhere else, as soon as DA and Nash understand that less (of Nash dominating the ball) is more, and be willing to allow Amare to be the best player on the team, we win the title despite flaws in both Amare and Nash's game. Period.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

well our other Co-Captain (Marion) demanded a trade in the offseason...

Marion isn't the whipping boy of the month, pls hold until may.

 

[DeAnna]

Skipping practice, complaining about shots, yelling at teammates constantly and not in a constructive way.

It's petulant and immature.

Last night on Suns Insider they had every player read a line from MLK's speech "I have a Dream." Notably absent - yep, Stat. Apparently he couldn't make it to the reading

 

[nowagimp]

If Nash thinks, and coaches and many on the team with him, that he is the best player on the team and all what the team does on court must go through him, then we have the origin for your CHEMESTRY problem, since Amare and Marion don't share this view.

I think the coaching staff tried to press Amare into accepting this "decoy" role, but Amare apparently was not so much a team guy to just go along with the corporate line. Nash was part of the "not passing to Amare unless he defends better" discipline that was based on "we can win without Amare as evidence in 05/06".

But, it became apparent that the league has caught up with Suns style so much so that we are not long outrunning them for easy wins. Kerr apparently is against trading Amare for scrubs, not sharing the illusion that 05/06 version of Suns could win anything. This all put pressure on coaching and Nash to accept what they are dealt with and give Amare what he wanted, "not just a decoy". And the Suns have been playing a lot better.

As I said somewhere else, as soon as DA and Nash understand that less (of Nash dominating the ball) is more, and be willing to allow Amare to be the best player on the team, we win the title despite flaws in both Amare and Nash's game. Period.

The suns philosophy is to move the ball to the open man, when the ball sticks, there is a problem. Imagine those words are also true for the lakers in their triangle, "when the ball sticks there is a problem" a quote by Kurt Rambis. Im sure that if the ball moves well to the open man Nash doesnt feel a need to control it. The problem is that the suns have guys like Marion, amare and barbosa who dont pass well, or are black holes. It sounds funny that you call nash the problem, I dont think I've ever heard that from an NBA professional. Feeding the "beast" who is triple teamed doesnt make much sense, get the beast a one-one one, much better. You gotta take what the defense gives, and if they pack it in on amare, the shooters must make them pay. Lets face it, Nash has given amare more easy buckets than just about any PG has done for any other player in todays NBA. Amare is a big kid, a very talented big kid, but he needs to learn to control his expectations and his perceived "need for stats". Feeding the beast in a packed lane will likely lead to injury as everyone is drying to draw the charge on amare, sometimes 3 guys on one play. He has to land somewhere, and with all those feet, I see "lamar odoms" everywhere. Amare should save those risks for the end of games in the playoffs, not a meaningless regular season game against the TWolves.

 

[nashman]

^Very nicely put nowagimp!

 

[LA Sports fan 3000]

guys its simple Suns wanna be in the finals but wont get there case in point .

Wannabeeeeeeeeeeeeee

 

[LA Sports fan 3000]

Nash is a over the hill never was cant wn playe that should go play with the tronto craptors or in the d league he has never won the big one.

GUESS WHAT HE NEVER WILL`!

 

[arwillan]

Nash is a over the hill never was cant wn playe that should go play with the tronto craptors or in the d league he has never won the big one.

GUESS WHAT HE NEVER WILL`!

whoa now, let's go buy a few grammar lessons pal.

 

[mojorizen7]

Nash is a over the hill never was cant wn playe that should go play with the tronto craptors or in the d league he has never won the big one.

GUESS WHAT HE NEVER WILL`!

Its a school night isn't it? So just get off your babysitters PC and pedal your a$$ on home now ok.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Toronto Craptors made me lol

 

[Bufalay]

These Laker trolls should not be banned. I come to this site to complain about the Suns (I am on that side of the argument), but if I know that there are laker idiots on here then I feel the need to defend my team!!!

So my point is, if you want to eliminate the negativity, you should let these trolls post!

Also I should point out that none of my posts should ever be taken too seriously.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

I dont mind other team trolls, but this sports fan 3000 guy is eating ****** sandwiches, and thats where i draw the line

 

[mojorizen7]

These Laker trolls should not be banned. I come to this site to complain about the Suns (I am on that side of the argument), but if I know that there are laker idiots on here then I feel the need to defend my team!!!

So my point is, if you want to eliminate the negativity, you should let these trolls post!

Also I should point out that none of my posts should ever be taken too seriously.

It becomes the No Fun League without 'em.

 

[Sundance]

"Amare has no business being a captain this year. Seriously."


Why? Just because he haven't publicly called out his teammates yet like the other captain did?

No, because NOBODY on this team respects Amare as a leader. Everyone respects him as a terrific basketball player, but that's where it ends. You can promote Amare to General, and he'll just be a General of one. Amare's all bark on this team and no bite.

It was a mistake giving him the role of Captain. He's 25. A bunch 30+ All-Stars and vets, which make up a significant bulk of this team, aren't going have their roost ruled by this kid. And the younger guys, Diaw and Barbosa, came into their own when Amare wasn't around. D'antoni, Kerr, whoever, f'd-up giving him this status, and it really wouldn't surprise me if it's been a source of strife caused within this team.

He can the lead the team in points and shots taken, but he's not a leader on this team. Provided he's still with the franchise in future, he'll get his shot one day, but it's not today.