Stoudemire on future with Suns: 'Nothing's solid'

[elindholm]

Highlights like that give me the urge to become Amare's "Andrew". Unfortunately the stream of the video cut out midway through and I had to go find another version, but the song was in chinese lol

Classic. Very well played, sir.

 

[elindholm]

If we had max money to go out and spend on the FA market, we would not come back with a player better than Amare. Amare, if healthy, is a max player.

Don't forget that not all "max" contracts are the same. Since Stoudemire is eligible for raises on top of his current max deal, his max is going to be larger than other people's maxes. That's how you have the maxed-out Dwight Howard as only the third highest paid player on his own team, behind Rashard Lewis and Vince Carter.

 

[chickenhead]

I like the Pierce reference, if for no other reason than it says he's willing to re-commit, and lays out a strategy for the Suns. The problem, of course, is that Boston got both one of the great shooters and one of the great defensive team players of the last decade (or more). And Garnett was partially gifted to them in a sense. I think that sort of scenario is just harder for Phoenix to come by.

I mean, is there a player out there who can come in here, say it's "Amare's team," then makes it his own team without being a prima donna? I'd love it if there were...

 

[Joe Mama]

I wish somebody would put together a video of just a couple games worth of Amare Stoudemire's defense... or lack thereof. How about a video of a bunch of average, no-name players scoring on him because of his late/nonexistent rotations? We could also get a video of offensive rebounds the Phoenix Suns surrendered because he still hasn't figured out that rebounding is more than using your athleticism to grab the ball when it's close. On offense Amare Stoudemire is a max player. There's absolutely no question about that. However the cumulative effect of his game is not even close to being worth $20 million per season.

Perhaps Chandler could cover up Amare's deficiencies defensively and on the boards. As much as I don't think Amare Stoudemire is worth $20 million per season I could get seriously excited about a Chandler/Stoudemire combination. If Earl Clark turns into a solid NBA player I could get downright giddy with that frontcourt.

Here's the problem. You are gambling $30 million per season that Amare Stoudemire and Tyson Chandler are going to be healthy... at the same time... during the playoffs and long enough during the regular season to get you there in the first place. That's just an incredible gamble, especially when you consider there would also be some level of luxury tax penalty. Essentially you are betting everything on those guys staying healthy because without either one of them the Phoenix Suns would not contend. Those two players alone would also tie up half the salary cap.

Joe

 

[JCSunsfan]

I wish somebody would put together a video of just a couple games worth of Amare Stoudemire's defense... or lack thereof. How about a video of a bunch of average, no-name players scoring on him because of his late/nonexistent rotations? We could also get a video of offensive rebounds the Phoenix Suns surrendered because he still hasn't figured out that rebounding is more than using your athleticism to grab the ball when it's close. On offense Amare Stoudemire is a max player. There's absolutely no question about that. However the cumulative effect of his game is not even close to being worth $20 million per season.

Perhaps Chandler could cover up Amare's deficiencies defensively and on the boards. As much as I don't think Amare Stoudemire is worth $20 million per season I could get seriously excited about a Chandler/Stoudemire combination. If Earl Clark turns into a solid NBA player I could get downright giddy with that frontcourt.

Here's the problem. You are gambling $30 million per season that Amare Stoudemire and Tyson Chandler are going to be healthy... at the same time... during the playoffs and long enough during the regular season to get you there in the first place. That's just an incredible gamble, especially when you consider there would also be some level of luxury tax penalty. Essentially you are betting everything on those guys staying healthy because without either one of them the Phoenix Suns would not contend. Those two players alone would also tie up half the salary cap.

Joe

The scuttle butt is that Chandler is permanently damaged goods.

 

[sunsallday]

We are not getting Chandler. He is damaged goods and lost a lot of his explosiveness. The Hornets don't even know if he will be healthy for a long period of time ala Yao Ming.

 

[Sovereignz]

I know I've said this about a billion times, but Amare's defensive problems LAST YEAR are completely overblown.. just like Barbosa's. People are taking past year's performances and a penchant for making the occasional unbelievably bad defensive play and overreacting.. Amare is not a good team defender, but acting like it was an automatic 30 from the other team's power forward is completely inaccurate. 82games has a nice breakdown on what kind of production each player gives up to his opposition, and I think most of you would be shocked to see how high Amare is among starting 4's. Here's a hint, the only ones ahead of him were Thad Young (surprising) and two former DPotY's.

Amare's guy wasn't the one killing us defensively, that should have been obvious when we replaced him in the starting lineup with a good (albeit undersized, though I don't think that matters too much given his toughness and how good a job he did for a series against Nowitzki when he played for GSW) defender and we somehow managed to get worse defensively. Amare is a guy the other coaching staff can point at and go, "This guy is pretty much guaranteed to make 2 or 3 awful defensive plays every game that we're going to get free buckets off of." Compare that to the way teams forged an entire offensive game plan around exploited Nash and Shaq in the pick and roll..

I honestly think if you put Amare on the Rockets teams of the last 4 years or so you wouldn't hear a peep about his defense. Not much anyway.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Who else do the Suns remotely have a possibility of building around?

That seems to be an excellent question. Yes, we may be able to get decent talent in a trade for Stat and Nash, but who the hell knows what will be an available alternative as a max player? Most of the star players that will be available in the near future will want to join successful teams, teams with championship potential. If we do nuke the current group, what great player would want to come here anyway?

Is Amare going to be a Tim Duncan max player? Unlikely, but could he be a Paul Pierce max player? I think so. It's amazing, a couple years back Pierce was considered a me first chucker who needed to be dumped from the Celtics so they could rebuild. Add two great players around him, and now he's a team leader and the heart and soul of the team.

While Amare has his shortcomings, I'd rather take a chance on the bird in the hand. The question the FO should be asking itself isn't "is Amare the perfect player, without any shortcomings?" rather "can we build a championship team with Stat as a max player?" The answer to the first question is no, while the 2nd is possibly, if you can build the right supporting cast around him.

 

[cly2tw]

That seems to be an excellent question. Yes, we may be able to get decent talent in a trade for Stat and Nash, but who the hell knows what will be an available alternative as a max player? Most of the star players that will be available in the near future will want to join successful teams, teams with championship potential. If we do nuke the current group, what great player would want to come here anyway?

Is Amare going to be a Tim Duncan max player? Unlikely, but could he be a Paul Pierce max player? I think so. It's amazing, a couple years back Pierce was considered a me first chucker who needed to be dumped from the Celtics so they could rebuild. Add two great players around him, and now he's a team leader and the heart and soul of the team.

While Amare has his shortcomings, I'd rather take a chance on the bird in the hand. The question the FO should be asking itself isn't "is Amare the perfect player, without any shortcomings?" rather "can we build a championship team with Stat as a max player?" The answer to the first question is no, while the 2nd is possibly, if you can build the right supporting cast around him.

A couple of years back when I suggested Marion for Pierce trade, I got ridiculed on here.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

A couple of years back when I suggested Marion for Pierce trade, I got ridiculed on here.

Exactly...Ray Allen had the same rep, as did Shard Lewis. Now there is talk about Ray Allen being a hall of famer. Funny how putting 3 stars together makes champions.

 

[sunsallday]

Fans have short memories. Haters come and go. When you start winning, all is forgotten and the ************ begins.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Fans have short memories. Haters come and go. When you start winning, all is forgotten and the ************ begins.

Eloquently put.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

The problem with extending Amare is that there's really no way to build around him. The difference between us and the Celtics three years ago is they had draft picks and cheap talented players. Butchering the last five drafts is killing us.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

The problem with extending Amare is that there's really no way to build around him. The difference between us and the Celtics three years ago is they had draft picks and cheap talented players. Butchering the last five drafts is killing us.

Picking up Chandler would be a good start, but Stat is realistic in his assessment that the only place he would accept mediocrity would be here. (Pragmatic, because it will more than likely be the case)

It seems pretty obvious that we wouldn't contend in the next couple years, but perhaps with a little luck and getting the Nash/Richardson contracts off the books we can gain our vaunted "flexibility".

My ultimate fear is that we'll keep Amare all year, try and negotiate a new contract with him, and that he'll pull a McDyess and leave. This will be followed by a panic Googs type move, overpaying a marginal player to appease the fan base and furthering the problem.

There certainly aren't any obviously good solutions to the current problems facing this team, the best solution may be to choose the least flawed rebuilding plan. It's continually amazing what an utter mess this team and organization have become.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I can't say enough how much things would be different were we to have our own draft pick in 2010. Saying hypothetically we did then Kerr and Griffin could get rid of everybody for young talent, tank the upcoming season, and go into the summer of 2010 with two max slots and a top 3 pick. Rebuild in one season, hit on a couple prospects, and you're back in the thick of things by 2012 at the latest.

 

[sunsallday]

Get Wade at all costs. IT MUST BE DONE!!!!!!

 

[Mainstreet]

The problem with extending Amare is that there's really no way to build around him. The difference between us and the Celtics three years ago is they had draft picks and cheap talented players. Butchering the last five drafts is killing us.

The Suns lack enough talent and have thrown away the numerous draft picks which could have been their future. Trading Amare for talent in a Larry Nance type scenario was the Suns best chance but Amare presently has question marks.

Now with minimal talent the Suns need a system type coach to rectify this situation until more talent is acquired. With no 2010 first round draft pick, let's hope Gentry can do his best DA impersonation with some defense thrown into the mix. I must admit it doesn't look good and Kerr apparently is satisfied using veteran minimum type players to fill holes.

 

[TJ]

Bottom line: This team has little to no desire to play defense. This is an offense-first squad that is looking to run you up and down the court. It would be a long and arduous process for the Suns to either become defensive minded or more balanced. STAT fits the mold of a run and gun type of player. He is probably the best finishing 4 in the league and inarguably the most exciting player the Suns have on their roster. He will produce 25+ PPG and the Nash to STAT pick and roll is almost unstoppable. Talking about anyone defensively on the Suns is non sequtar and anyone who thinks they are going to become this defensive juggernaut in the next two seasons is delusional.

 

[WildBB]

The problem with extending Amare is that there's really no way to build around him. The difference between us and the Celtics three years ago is they had draft picks and cheap talented players. Butchering the last five drafts is killing us.

You can thank D'Antoni for that. The Kniks are at least keeping him in check so far.

 

[WildBB]

I can't say enough how much things would be different were we to have our own draft pick in 2010. Saying hypothetically we did then Kerr and Griffin could get rid of everybody for young talent, tank the upcoming season, and go into the summer of 2010 with two max slots and a top 3 pick. Rebuild in one season, hit on a couple prospects, and you're back in the thick of things by 2012 at the latest.

Ah....the Kurt Thomas fiasco. Another D'Antoni F/O blunder beyond words.

You would make a better owner right now.

 

[Mainstreet]

You can thank D'Antoni for that. The Kniks are at least keeping him in check so far.

I thought the GM ran the team. DA was only a fill-in GM for one season until Sarver could bring his buddy Kerr on board. DA will turn the Knicks around in one season just like he did the Suns. So this season I'm starting to look for the Knicks to rise.

 

[WildBB]

I thought the GM ran the team. DA was only a fill-in GM for one season until Sarver could bring his buddy Kerr on board. DA will turn the Knicks around in one season just like he did the Suns. So this season I'm starting to look for the Knicks to rise.

Alert...the results are in. D'Antoni did not help this franchise long term. Nor did he get us in the NBA finals, let alone win one. He helped make the call not signing JJ to a long term deal when they had the chance as well or they'd mtl be sittng pretty with rings allready.

 

[mojorizen7]

Bottom line: This team has little to no desire to play defense. This is an offense-first squad that is looking to run you up and down the court. It would be a long and arduous process for the Suns to either become defensive minded or more balanced. STAT fits the mold of a run and gun type of player. He is probably the best finishing 4 in the league and inarguably the most exciting player the Suns have on their roster. He will produce 25+ PPG and the Nash to STAT pick and roll is almost unstoppable. Talking about anyone defensively on the Suns is non sequtar and anyone who thinks they are going to become this defensive juggernaut in the next two seasons is delusional.

True.
If you were to take Nash & Amare off this current starting squad and replace them with say...Dragic & Lou this team would immediately notch up defensively. Not dramatically, but noticably. They're THAT BAD.
Obviously we'd be hard pressed to score even 60 pts a night though....
That'd be ugly.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I thought the GM ran the team. DA was only a fill-in GM for one season until Sarver could bring his buddy Kerr on board. DA will turn the Knicks around in one season just like he did the Suns. So this season I'm starting to look for the Knicks to rise.

D'Antoni wearing the GM hat is as bad as Kerr. Remember how he refused to develop young players? He played a big part in us dealing those draft picks.

 

[jandaman]

The problem with extending Amare is that there's really no way to build around him. The difference between us and the Celtics three years ago is they had draft picks and cheap talented players. Butchering the last five drafts is killing us.

Exactly... IF the Suns kept drafting players... then fine.

But sadly, D'Antoni and Sarver sold them off.. (yes, Kerr had little to do with it if you think about it).


And ironically, the only way Suns can get YOUNG prospects and/or drafts is through Stoudemire trade...



Thats why I don't mind trading Stoudemire.

Because you save a bundle of cash and reduce risking big $$$ on injury-potential Stoudemire.

Also gets to re-build Suns from ground up....

Suns cannot build around Stoudemire, by the time they CAN (with picks)... Stoudemirw ill most likely be declined severely and in his 30s....

Kapish? for all stubborn Suns fans who doesnt want to trade Stoudemire.
Look at it long term... Suns cannot afford young players, big time FA are flocking to other teams due to better roster makeup etc.... Suns best way to be effective in the future is through YOUNG players and draft picks.. and Stoudemire is your ticket...