Summer league 2016

[slinslin]

Towns is not not playing to avoid injury.

 

[AzStevenCal]

It's not bubble wrap, it's just that it's pointless to have a player of his caliber play in summer league. I'm sure that Towns isn't playing for Minnesota is he? There's good reason for that. And same with Porzingis for the Knicks and I'm sure even if he didn't have Olympics obligations (not sure if he does or not), he still wouldn't be doing summer league.

And after the rookie season he had, the Suns would be foolish to view him as a part time player.

Towns is clearly ready for the NBA, Booker simply isn't. The gap between them right now is considerable even though KAT is nowhere near a finished product either.

Booker did NOT have a good season, quite the contrary. He's the face of our franchise right now but that's politics and dreams, it's not performance. Booker needs the court time. If he's going to get 25 or 30 minutes a game regardless of how he plays, then he doesn't need summer league. But if he's going to get the minutes he's earned, he probably should be playing summer league. Just like in Miami, you'll notice that both Winslow and Richardson are also playing summer ball.

 

[Chaplin]

Towns is clearly ready for the NBA, Booker simply isn't. The gap between them right now is considerable even though KAT is nowhere near a finished product either.

Booker did NOT have a good season, quite the contrary. He's the face of our franchise right now but that's politics and dreams, it's not performance. Booker needs the court time. If he's going to get 25 or 30 minutes a game regardless of how he plays, then he doesn't need summer league. But if he's going to get the minutes he's earned, he probably should be playing summer league. Just like in Miami, you'll notice that both Winslow and Richardson are also playing summer ball.

Please tell me what a good season WOULD be for an 18-year-old rookie.

He actually DID have a good season for an 18-year-old rookie. Having trouble figuring out why you would even think that.

 

[sunsfan88]

Towns is clearly ready for the NBA, Booker simply isn't. The gap between them right now is considerable even though KAT is nowhere near a finished product either.

Booker did NOT have a good season, quite the contrary. He's the face of our franchise right now but that's politics and dreams, it's not performance. Booker needs the court time. If he's going to get 25 or 30 minutes a game regardless of how he plays, then he doesn't need summer league. But if he's going to get the minutes he's earned, he probably should be playing summer league. Just like in Miami, you'll notice that both Winslow and Richardson are also playing summer ball.

Book

Towns is clearly ready for the NBA, Booker simply isn't. The gap between them right now is considerable even though KAT is nowhere near a finished product either.

Booker did NOT have a good season, quite the contrary. He's the face of our franchise right now but that's politics and dreams, it's not performance. Booker needs the court time. If he's going to get 25 or 30 minutes a game regardless of how he plays, then he doesn't need summer league. But if he's going to get the minutes he's earned, he probably should be playing summer league. Just like in Miami, you'll notice that both Winslow and Richardson are also playing summer ball.

Booker isn't ready for the NBA? I'll respectfully disagree with that one. I think Knight can possibly use summer league more than Booker though I'm not sure if he's eligible for it since he's been in the league like 5 years. I understand Winslow and Richardson may be participating in summer league but out of the top 5 rookies from last season (Towns, Porzingis, Jokic, Okafor), Booker is the only one participating in summer league. I believe even Myles Turner is not doing summer league.

This could all be for moot as Ryan McD did recently say that Booker may not play or may just barely play in summer league even if he is on the roster. And that is basically what I want.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Please tell me what a good season WOULD be for an 18-year-old rookie.

He actually DID have a good season for an 18-year-old rookie. Having trouble figuring out why you would even think that.

There's a big difference between "good season" and "good season for an 18 year old". By any measure, IMO, he outperformed expectations. But his minutes were the result of injury, they weren't based on his performance. He did not have a good season, he had a great season for his age and experience though and his future looks very bright.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Book

Booker isn't ready for the NBA? I'll respectfully disagree with that one. I think Knight can possibly use summer league more than Booker though I'm not sure if he's eligible for it since he's been in the league like 5 years. I understand Winslow and Richardson may be participating in summer league but out of the top 5 rookies from last season (Towns, Porzingis, Jokic, Okafor), Booker is the only one participating in summer league. I believe even Myles Turner is not doing summer league.

This could all be for moot as Ryan McD did recently say that Booker may not play or may just barely play in summer league even if he is on the roster. And that is basically what I want.

How? How can you disagree with that, especially in the context of our conversation. Booker showed glimpses of greatness but he was taken to school almost nightly. He finished with a PER only slightly above that of Archie, PJ and Markieff. Even acknowledging how limited PER is, when you're under 12.0, you're not having a good season. KAT finished with a PER above 22, that's what "ready for the NBA" looks like.

 

[Chaplin]

There's a big difference between "good season" and "good season for an 18 year old". By any measure, IMO, he outperformed expectations. But his minutes were the result of injury, they weren't based on his performance. He did not have a good season, he had a great season for his age and experience though and his future looks very bright.

Sorry, but half this statement makes no sense.

He did not have a good season? Compared to what? Lebron James?

He had a better season than plenty veterans in the league. It doesn't matter how he got the opportunity. Point is, he took it and did well with it. That's how a lot of great players become great.

Seems like you've fallen into that age-old Suns fan adage that nobody is good enough for you.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Sorry, but half this statement makes no sense.

He did not have a good season? Compared to what? Lebron James?

He had a better season than plenty veterans in the league. It doesn't matter how he got the opportunity. Point is, he took it and did well with it. That's how a lot of great players become great.

Did he? If he'd been a 28 year old veteran playing like he did we'd be calling for his head. I'm arguing against the idea that he doesn't need Summer League, you're taking this as an indictment of Booker. He's a kid, he's not anywhere near developed yet and he has so much to learn.

His minutes last year weren't earned they were gifted due to a lack of options. He still has a lot of learning to do, if he and the coaching staff think that should come in the summer league than that's where he should be. If they plan on using him heavily this season and feel he can OJT his way to the next level, I'm fine with that too.

 

[JCSunsfan]

You can't surround them with bubble wrap. It's his job to play basketball, he's always going to be at risk. Unless there's stats that show a player is more likely to get injured in summer league, I'd leave this one up to him and management.

IMO if Booker is already viewed as a 30 minute a game player, he has no business playing in Vegas. But if he's only really viewed as a part time player at this stage of his career, this summer league environment is too valuable of a learning tool to pass it by.

Booker REALLY wants to be on the court with Ulis. Suns are letting him do it for few minutes just to placate him and then making him sit.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Towns is clearly ready for the NBA, Booker simply isn't. The gap between them right now is considerable even though KAT is nowhere near a finished product either.

Booker did NOT have a good season, quite the contrary. He's the face of our franchise right now but that's politics and dreams, it's not performance. Booker needs the court time. If he's going to get 25 or 30 minutes a game regardless of how he plays, then he doesn't need summer league. But if he's going to get the minutes he's earned, he probably should be playing summer league. Just like in Miami, you'll notice that both Winslow and Richardson are also playing summer ball.

Booker had a GREAT season.

 

[Mainstreet]

You can't surround them with bubble wrap. It's his job to play basketball, he's always going to be at risk. Unless there's stats that show a player is more likely to get injured in summer league, I'd leave this one up to him and management.

IMO if Booker is already viewed as a 30 minute a game player, he has no business playing in Vegas. But if he's only really viewed as a part time player at this stage of his career, this summer league environment is too valuable of a learning tool to pass it by.

Booker played almost 28 minutes a game last season so I view him as a 30 minute player. He could take a step back as a sophomore or get reduced minutes with the return of Bledsoe and Knight. However, I still think the Suns have to look at him as a 30 minute player especially if he improves. Also he may get minutes this season at SF. In summer league I hope the Suns only play him enough to demonstrate how the Suns play. Of course the Suns will be tempted to play him more because of the youngsters they drafted especially with Ulis running the team.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Booker played almost 28 minutes a game last season so I view him as a 30 minute player. He could take a step back as a sophomore or get reduced minutes with the return of Bledsoe and Knight. However, I still think the Suns have to look at him as a 30 minute player especially if he improves. Also he may get minutes this season at SF. In summer league I hope the Suns only play him enough to demonstrate how the Suns play. Of course the Suns will be tempted to play him more because of the youngsters they drafted especially with Ulis running the team.

He won't get big minutes, but it isn't about protecting him, but about preserving him for the Team USA select team that starts playing on the 18th.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

How? How can you disagree with that, especially in the context of our conversation. Booker showed glimpses of greatness but he was taken to school almost nightly. He finished with a PER only slightly above that of Archie, PJ and Markieff. Even acknowledging how limited PER is, when you're under 12.0, you're not having a good season. KAT finished with a PER above 22, that's what "ready for the NBA" looks like.

I'm generally a fan of the PER stat, but when despite beating out Russell in virtually every advance metric that has to do with efficiency he is still below him in that stat, you have take it with a big grain of salt. I mean Booker is significantly ahead of him in win shares too.

http://www.basketball-reference.com...1&p2=russeda01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=#advanced::none

 

[leclerc]

When is the first game?

 

[JCSunsfan]

How? How can you disagree with that, especially in the context of our conversation. Booker showed glimpses of greatness but he was taken to school almost nightly. He finished with a PER only slightly above that of Archie, PJ and Markieff. Even acknowledging how limited PER is, when you're under 12.0, you're not having a good season. KAT finished with a PER above 22, that's what "ready for the NBA" looks like.

I cannot believe we watched the same season. I think you will be hard pressed to find ANYONE who agrees with this assessment of Booker--Suns fans, other team's fans, players, NBA brass--anyone.

 

[Joe Mama]

I cannot believe we watched the same season. I think you will be hard pressed to find ANYONE who agrees with this assessment of Booker--Suns fans, other team's fans, players, NBA brass--anyone.

I don't know. I saw something closer to what Steve is describing. There were certainly great games and flashes of brilliance, but the total body of work, especially on defense was that of a guy with a ways to go.

Joe

 

[AzStevenCal]

Booker had a GREAT season.

Booker had a great season for an 18 year old rookie. If you mean something else, please explain.

I cannot believe we watched the same season. I think you will be hard pressed to find ANYONE who agrees with this assessment of Booker--Suns fans, other team's fans, players, NBA brass--anyone.

I'm sorry but I can show you several hundred similar comments on RealGM. Booker, as a rookie, was outstanding. Booker, just judged as an NBA player, had a below average season. Every single metric and stat supports that statement. There were mitigating circumstances such as having to play 2 positions and having little support around him but he was horrible on defense and very inconsistent on offense. I love the kid and I have very high hopes about his future but the idea he's so advanced he doesn't need summer league (which is what prompted my posts) is absurd.

 

[Chaplin]

I don't know. I saw something closer to what Steve is describing. There were certainly great games and flashes of brilliance, but the total body of work, especially on defense was that of a guy that is a rookie and 18-years-old.

Joe

FTFY

 

[Chaplin]

Booker had a great season for an 18 year old rookie. If you mean something else, please explain.


I'm sorry but I can show you several hundred similar comments on RealGM. Booker, as a rookie, was outstanding. Booker, just judged as an NBA player, had a below average season. Every single metric and stat supports that statement. There were mitigating circumstances such as having to play 2 positions and having little support around him but he was horrible on defense and very inconsistent on offense. I love the kid and I have very high hopes about his future but the idea he's so advanced he doesn't need summer league (which is what prompted my posts) is absurd.

But why are you judging him as just a veteran NBA player? That doesn't make much sense, because honestly, he actually IS an 18-year-old rookie, after all.

I must have missed it, did someone say that Booker is too good for Summer League? I personally don't see much use for it, but that's because the level of competition is so godawful and there is a much higher risk of injury than during, say, the preseason. But there will always be something to work on.

 

[AzStevenCal]

But why are you judging him as just a veteran NBA player? That doesn't make much sense, because honestly, he actually IS an 18-year-old rookie, after all.

I must have missed it, did someone say that Booker is too good for Summer League? I personally don't see much use for it, but that's because the level of competition is so godawful and there is a much higher risk of injury than during, say, the preseason. But there will always be something to work on.

Not exactly but basically, yes.

it's just that it's pointless to have a player of his caliber play in summer league. I'm sure that Towns isn't playing for Minnesota is he?

And I'm not sure about the higher risk of injury, if someone could show supporting evidence of that I'd bet my hat that teams would stop sending stars there (I don't wear a hat BTW). There's less defense, less contact and my guess would be that there is far less risk of injury. I'd worry about high flying to the rim but that's about it.

 

[Chaplin]

Not exactly but basically, yes.



And I'm not sure about the higher risk of injury, if someone could show supporting evidence of that I'd bet my hat that teams would stop sending stars there (I don't wear a hat BTW). There's less defense, less contact and my guess would be that there is far less risk of injury. I'd worry about high flying to the rim but that's about it.

Summer League is basically glorified pickup games with a bit more structure--and superstars do it in the offseason anyway, so what's the harm? Just don't get injured--but the chance of injury probably isn't much different between Summer League and summer pickup games. Heck, didn't Durant and a bunch of other NBA players do Steve Nash's soccer in New York event? That's dangerous also when talking about injuries.

So we probably agree on the surface, I just disagree with you about Booker's season.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Booker had a great season for an 18 year old rookie. If you mean something else, please explain.


I'm sorry but I can show you several hundred similar comments on RealGM. Booker, as a rookie, was outstanding. Booker, just judged as an NBA player, had a below average season. Every single metric and stat supports that statement. There were mitigating circumstances such as having to play 2 positions and having little support around him but he was horrible on defense and very inconsistent on offense. I love the kid and I have very high hopes about his future but the idea he's so advanced he doesn't need summer league (which is what prompted my posts) is absurd.

No. The reason he does not need summer league is because he is playing on the USA Select team, which will be taxing on his body. He will get better experience on that team than on the summer league team.

 

[AzStevenCal]

No. The reason he does not need summer league is because he is playing on the USA Select team, which will be taxing on his body. He will get better experience on that team than on the summer league team.

And I agree with this. But I disagree with the idea he doesn't need extra work and I disagree with the idea that summer league is useless. The games themselves probably don't do much but the entire experience is priceless. They get more hands on training time and controlled practices than they'll likely see during the season. The USA Select Team is probably even more valuable but that's just supposition on my part as I haven't heard the players and coaches extolling the process as I have with summer league

 

[Chaplin]

And I agree with this. But I disagree with the idea he doesn't need extra work and I disagree with the idea that summer league is useless. The games themselves probably don't do much but the entire experience is priceless. They get more hands on training time and controlled practices than they'll likely see during the season. The USA Select Team is probably even more valuable but that's just supposition on my part as I haven't heard the players and coaches extolling the process as I have with summer league

I'm a little curious about how the USA Select team is coached. Do they go all out against the best players in the world, or do they change how they play based on scenarios? "Ok, guys, you are pretending you are Nigeria. Just stand there and don't do much of anything."

 

[AzStevenCal]

I'm a little curious about how the USA Select team is coached. Do they go all out against the best players in the world, or do they change how they play based on scenarios? "Ok, guys, you are pretending you are Nigeria. Just stand there and don't do much of anything."

Good question. I know so little about it I wouldn't even venture a guess. I'm just assuming there's real practice and education going on.