Summer trades?

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I also worry with Doncic that he won’t have the wheels to beat quicker smaller guards off the dribble. Simmons has a quick first step and he can post. For Doncic to be a top notch distributor, if he legit plays the one, it would behoove him to develop a post game so he could use his height to advantage, much the way Magic did during his heyday.

My understanding is he has a post game to bully undersized defenders.

 

[BC867]

My understanding is he has a post game to bully undersized defenders.

The only benefit to playing a good passing Forward at Point Guard. What wing wouldn't?

But far outweighed by the detriments of playing a Forward at Point Guard.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The only benefit to playing a good passing Forward at Point Guard. What wing wouldn't?

But far outweighed by the detriments of playing a Forward at Point Guard.

Unless he ends up being a large guard.

 

[Cheesebeef]

My understanding is he has a post game to bully undersized defenders.

Interesting. Haven’t seen a lot of that in his highlight reels.

 

[Errntknght]

My understanding is he has a post game to bully undersized defenders.

Where's SirStephan? He's the most likely person to have seen Doncic in recent games. I watched three full games of Doncic playing for his national team last summer and saw nary a post up move by Luka. In fact he was never at the point in those games though he initiated maybe ten percent of the plays while he was on the floor. No luck penetrating but he did make some first rate passes from the high P&R.

It's not hard to imagine Doncic could sucessfully post up guys who he has 5-6 inch height advantage on but I'd like to hear it from an eyewitness. Or someone quoting Igor.

 

[BC867]

Unless he ends up being a large guard.

Guard? We're talking about Point Guard. A Shooting Guard (even if he is a talented passer) is a Wing, of course, just as is a Small Forward.

We're talking about not drafting Doncic to play the point. On offense and on defense. If you do, someone has to cover his shortcomings, which would detract from his own performance.

 

[Mr. Boldin]

I see Doncic playing the wing. You you can slide him in at the 2-3 depending on who you play next to him, but I dont see him being the primary ball handler. He needs someone else who can attack off the dribble in the back court. Hes a passing wizard who can shred you in the PNR, but he fits better splitting ball handling duties, coming off DHOs and screens, zipper cuts, ect. Something to get him free and moving on the catch where he is attacking at an advantage.

If you slot him as the PG, I think hes going to have some struggles beating guys one on one, especially when defenses switch with unconventional lineups, or they blitz him on ball screens.

Not to mention, if his shot continues to develop, as ive been saying, he turns into a lethal option as a corner shooter and then attacking closeouts.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I see Doncic playing the wing. You you can slide him in at the 2-3 depending on who you play next to him, but I dont see him being the primary ball handler. He needs someone else who can attack off the dribble in the back court. Hes a passing wizard who can shred you in the PNR, but he fits better splitting ball handling duties, coming off DHOs and screens, zipper cuts, ect. Something to get him free and moving on the catch where he is attacking at an advantage.

If you slot him as the PG, I think hes going to have some struggles beating guys one on one, especially when defenses switch with unconventional lineups, or they blitz him on ball screens.

Not to mention, if his shot continues to develop, as ive been saying, he turns into a lethal option as a corner shooter and then attacking closeouts.

So lets get a pg.

Bigger guard, can play effective D against the quicker pg's in the league, can effectively run an offense but does not have to be flashy, shoots above 35% from 3. Can drive to the rim.

That's a pretty short list I think.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Interesting. Haven’t seen a lot of that in his highlight reels.

No that’s something I read.

 

[SirStefan32]

Where's SirStephan? He's the most likely person to have seen Doncic in recent games. I watched three full games of Doncic playing for his national team last summer and saw nary a post up move by Luka. In fact he was never at the point in those games though he initiated maybe ten percent of the plays while he was on the floor. No luck penetrating but he did make some first rate passes from the high P&R.

It's not hard to imagine Doncic could sucessfully post up guys who he has 5-6 inch height advantage on but I'd like to hear it from an eyewitness. Or someone quoting Igor.

Doncic has a good low-post game. He is actually deceivingly strong too. He'll punish smaller defenders. You won't see it much with the national team since Dragic had smaller defenders on him. He doesn't live in the low post, but he can score down there, even on bigger guards. The bigger question on offense for him is going to be whether or not his dribble drive step back will be effective in the NBA.

 

[Mr. Boldin]

So lets get a pg.

Bigger guard, can play effective D against the quicker pg's in the league, can effectively run an offense but does not have to be flashy, shoots above 35% from 3. Can drive to the rim.

That's a pretty short list I think.

Well Booker would work as the other ball handler/shot creator. Now you need a 3-D wing/guard, although probably someone who can handle spot PG duties to help fit in the rotation. PG wise, think a Patrick Beverley. Guard/spot PG, think a Gary Harris type. 3-D guard/wing, think Robert Covington, Danny Green, ect.

I think Josh Jackson would have been a good fit next to both those guys, but dont think hes ready for that type of big time defensive assignment on lead guards.

Either way, take Ayton and start locking down some pieces that fit.

 

[Raze]

There are very few true PGs left in the league. I'm wondering whether the position is becoming obsolete. The top twelve players in assists per game this season (among those with at least 50 games played, which excludes Wall) were

Westbrook
James
Harden
Rondo
Simmons
Paul
Draymond Green
Ball
Teague
Lowry
Lillard
Dinwiddie

That list includes at least two players who can't be considered PGs at all (James and Green); at least two for whom calling them PGs is something of a reach (Harden and Simmons); at least two who, because they score so much, might be more accurately called "lead guards" (Westbrook and Lillard); and at least two who have such severe shooting limitations that, at least at this stage in their careers, can't properly be considered offensive engines (Ball and Dinwiddie).

The Suns need someone who can break opponents down off the dribble, passes decisively and accurately, makes correct decisions, pushes the ball on the break, sees the floor well, and can defend quick guards on the other end. That person doesn't have to be a "point guard" necessarily.

We talked about Spencer Dinwiddie mid season, and I wish we'd had figured out a way to steal him from Brooklyn. He would be a pretty good fit next to Book. I wonder what the cost would be to get him now. Maybe Warren for Dinwiddie and futures.

I'd make a strong push to get him. He's coming off a great season, he's young but still a vet (25), has excellent control with the ball and has a respectable A/TO ratio, has a good contract ($1.6M), and wants to be good (something I don't see Elfrid). Unless there's some other PG hiding under a bush somewhere, I don't think there's a better option.

 

[BC867]

Well Booker would work as the other ball handler/shot creator.

I cringe every time I read a post like this. Every moment you (plan and) play a developing superstar Shooting Guard out of position, you're neutralizing the benefit of having him.

Devin Booker is a Shooting Guard. That is how his time on the floor should be spent. Every minute of it. If you have him running the Point, you're doing the opposing team a favor.

Plus he started getting injured when playing out of position.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I cringe every time I read a post like this. Every moment you (plan and) play a developing superstar Shooting Guard out of position, you're neutralizing the benefit of having him.

Devin Booker is a Shooting Guard. That is how his time on the floor should be spent. Every minute of it. If you have him running the Point, you're doing the opposing team a favor.

Plus he started getting injured when playing out of position.

He would be a secondary creator. That is what a shooting guard is.

 

[JCSunsfan]

We talked about Spencer Dinwiddie mid season, and I wish we'd had figured out a way to steal him from Brooklyn. He would be a pretty good fit next to Book. I wonder what the cost would be to get him now. Maybe Warren for Dinwiddie and futures.

I'd make a strong push to get him. He's coming off a great season, he's young but still a vet (25), has excellent control with the ball and has a respectable A/TO ratio, has a good contract ($1.6M), and wants to be good (something I don't see Elfrid). Unless there's some other PG hiding under a bush somewhere, I don't think there's a better option.

Let them keep Dinwiddie. Let's go for DeAngelo Russell.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Throw some real money at Marcus Smart. Kokoskov's specialty is teaching shooting and scoring. He is already one of the best defensive guards in the game. He can guard 1-4 positions. He gets 5 assists per game which is ok because others will be distributing too.

If we want a FA guard that would make the most difference on this team, its probably Smart.

Otherwise, we need to keep Elfrid for cheap and turn him into a competent shooter.

 

[elindholm]

Throw some real money at Marcus Smart. Kokoskov's specialty is teaching shooting and scoring. He is already one of the best defensive guards in the game. He can guard 1-4 positions. He gets 5 assists per game which is ok because others will be distributing too.

If we want a FA guard that would make the most difference on this team, its probably Smart.

Otherwise, we need to keep Elfrid for cheap and turn him into a competent shooter.

Although I hate to admit it, Knight may end up being the best practical option. Maybe Kokoskov can get him to buy more into a team concept.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Let them keep Dinwiddie. Let's go for DeAngelo Russell.

Oh God, no! He is NOT what this team needs. Ball domination, bad defender, terrible teammate until proven otherwise.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Oh God, no! He is NOT what this team needs. Ball domination, bad defender, terrible teammate until proven otherwise.

Yeah, I really haven't seen much from him as a player or as a person that interests me.

 

[Raze]

Let them keep Dinwiddie. Let's go for DeAngelo Russell.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of Russell. He would suck the life out of this team by taking away from Book. We need someone to infuse life. While Dinwiddie isn't a savior, he's at least a true PG.

I actually agree with elindholm. BK might be the "answer" if the new HC can inspire his best. BK really is talented and maybe a year off gave him the perspective he needed to become the player we need.

 

[Errntknght]

Let them keep Dinwiddie. Let's go for DeAngelo Russell.

Hard to understand wanting Russell... he's a poor defender(5th worst PG on Drpm), he turns the ball over a lot(Ast/TO 1.7), and shoots 3's at 32.4%. He isn't even particularly good at shooting inside the arc or getting to the rim. If you wanted a PG who shoots a lot, on the cheap, I guess he'd do. I'd put Payton ahead of him, though not by a lot.
Dinwiddie wouldn't be my choice because of his price tag, but he has a great Ast/TO at 4.1 and a middle of the pack DRPM.

 

[Suns_fan69]

We talked about Spencer Dinwiddie mid season, and I wish we'd had figured out a way to steal him from Brooklyn. He would be a pretty good fit next to Book. I wonder what the cost would be to get him now. Maybe Warren for Dinwiddie and futures.

I'd make a strong push to get him. He's coming off a great season, he's young but still a vet (25), has excellent control with the ball and has a respectable A/TO ratio, has a good contract ($1.6M), and wants to be good (something I don't see Elfrid). Unless there's some other PG hiding under a bush somewhere, I don't think there's a better option.

I didn't see a ton of Nets basketball, but I did watch a couple games and i generally liked what I saw from Dinwiddie. If the Suns really wanted him, the Nets are a team that would be pretty interested in draft picks. They've been starved over the recent years from the Pierce/Garnett debacle of a trade. They have the 29th pick, but they might entertain Dinwiddie for Shaq Harrison and a pick swap.

 

[devilalum]

I cringe every time I read a post like this. Every moment you (plan and) play a developing superstar Shooting Guard out of position, you're neutralizing the benefit of having him.

Devin Booker is a Shooting Guard. That is how his time on the floor should be spent. Every minute of it. If you have him running the Point, you're doing the opposing team a favor.

Plus he started getting injured when playing out of position.

A lot of his “injuries” were caused by a tank.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Mainstreet]

I think (hope) the Suns can do better than Dinwiddie but the 16th pick should get it done not to mention the Suns own #31.

I'd rather the Suns use #16 and #31 to move up slightly in the draft so they can draft a PG.

 

[Mr. Boldin]

I cringe every time I read a post like this. Every moment you (plan and) play a developing superstar Shooting Guard out of position, you're neutralizing the benefit of having him.

Devin Booker is a Shooting Guard. That is how his time on the floor should be spent. Every minute of it. If you have him running the Point, you're doing the opposing team a favor.

Plus he started getting injured when playing out of position.

If you want Booker to take the next step, and not be a "shooting guard" his entire career, you need to get him to expand his game. For example:

He is already taking 47.4% of his FGA as pull up jumpers. His eFG% is 46.9% on those vs. 59.2% on catch and shoot jumpers. However, he shots 36.4% on pull up threes (19.9% of FGA) versus 40.4% on catch and shoot 3s (17.9% FGA). So his game is already evolving into more and more off the dribble, not to mention with little help/spacing around him. Each year he has taken more pull up jumpers and hit a higher percentage. The logical move would be to provide him more spacing and another shot creator.

He is being pushed into a primary shot creator as is. Getting him some help, both in the terms of floor spacing, and via another shot creator would absolutely help open up his game.