Summer trades?

[ColdPickleNachos]

I think it's important to keep a few things in context with Rozier...

• He just came within one game of being the point guard on a team in the NBA Finals at age 24.
• He averaged 16.5 points, 5.3 rebounds, 5.7 assists, 1.3 steals, and only 1.2 turnovers in these playoffs.
• Brad Stevens trusted him enough to play him nearly 37 mpg over 19 playoff games.
• Chances are, he's not as good as he looked at his best in these playoffs.
• He was HORRIBLE in Game 7.
• In Game 6, he scored 28 points on 63% shooting, had 7 assists and made 6 three pointers.
• Brad Stevens gets a lot of credit, but it's not like Rozier came into the league as an undrafted free agent. He was the 16th pick of the draft, three picks after Devin Booker.

 

[95pro]

Rozier looks great because of the system. He really would be just ok somewhere else.

 

[Mainstreet]

No, no, no... and a heeeell no. I guarantee that would get it done. I think Ainge would feint if given the chance to swap a PG who shoots 39% and doesn't distribute for 2 first round picks. I don't think I'd swap either one of those assets for him. IMO he is a backup. He's also due an extension.

I absolutely expect the Celtics to shop him around, they're great at selling high, and I expect whatever team trades for him and extends him to feel really stupid within a year... because basically everyone the Celtics have shipped away has looked a LOT worse once removed from Stevens coaching, and all things taken into account, Rozier hasn't even looked all that good anyway.

This is the way I look at it as well. As @95pro says, the Celtics make him look better than he is.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

Game 6. That doesn't look like a guy who is just the product of a system.

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I'm not saying you bring him in to be the franchise savior, but he doesn't need to be that. Developing player with talent and defensive chops...I like him more than any point guard who may be available in trade or free agency other than Kemba. He's a WAY better option than Elfrid imho

You trade for him and let him prove it for a year before signing an extension. If he's worth it, then pay him. If not, you really didn't give up that much (if we're talking the 16th pick and the Milwaukee pick) for a chance at a quality starting point guard.

I wouldn't trade the farm for him, but I also think there is some recency bias at play here.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Game 6. That doesn't look like a guy who is just the product of a system.

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I'm not saying you bring him in to be the franchise savior, but he doesn't need to be that. Developing player with talent and defensive chops...I like him more than any point guard who may be available in trade or free agency other than Kemba. He's a WAY better option than Elfrid imho

You trade for him and let him prove it for a year before signing an extension. If he's worth it, then pay him. If not, you really didn't give up that much (if we're talking the 16th pick and the Milwaukee pick) for a chance at a quality starting point guard.

I wouldn't trade the farm for him, but I also think there is some recency bias at play here.

I think two firsts is too much. With kyrie blocking him and pending free agency ainge will want to get an asset for him. What did we give up for Bledsoe? I think it’s analogous.

 

[Mainstreet]

Game 6. That doesn't look like a guy who is just the product of a system.


I'm not saying you bring him in to be the franchise savior, but he doesn't need to be that. Developing player with talent and defensive chops...I like him more than any point guard who may be available in trade or free agency other than Kemba. He's a WAY better option than Elfrid imho

You trade for him and let him prove it for a year before signing an extension. If he's worth it, then pay him. If not, you really didn't give up that much (if we're talking the 16th pick and the Milwaukee pick) for a chance at a quality starting point guard.

I wouldn't trade the farm for him, but I also think there is some recency bias at play here.

Danny Ainge would be licking his chops at the idea of getting two first round picks for Rozier. This is how Ainge makes a living.

 

[Hoop Head]

Considering he was the 16th pick in the draft 3 years ago, giving up the 16th pick now and something else isn't that much. It depends on what that something else is. The 16th pick alone isn't getting it done. Maybe a pair of 2nds? I don't know. The Milwaukee pick will probably be around 20th next year. I'd pay that now so we don't overpay for someone later. What I mean by overpay is his salary. What will it cost in terms of an annual salary next summer to keep Boston from matching? That's an important question. I'd much rather trade for Rozier than pay a nice chuck of change to sign Marcus Smart, I know that. Smart is someone some have mentioned as a potential signing. If we had a good starting PG then I'd be more open about going after Smart but we need a starting PG and Smart isn't the answer there.

 

[Phrazbit]

I know he's due an extension but I'd feel more comfortable paying him next summer if we had a year of seeing him with our team. He'll get a nice payday and it could be a big mistake. I'd rather get a test drive now and see if he's worth paying later.

IMO, 2 first round picks is a lot more than a "test drive", that's a wad blow.

The price for Payton was a test drive... and I suspect that Payton is probably the better player when all things are equal.

 

[Phrazbit]

Game 6. That doesn't look like a guy who is just the product of a system.

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I'm not saying you bring him in to be the franchise savior, but he doesn't need to be that. Developing player with talent and defensive chops...I like him more than any point guard who may be available in trade or free agency other than Kemba. He's a WAY better option than Elfrid imho

You trade for him and let him prove it for a year before signing an extension. If he's worth it, then pay him. If not, you really didn't give up that much (if we're talking the 16th pick and the Milwaukee pick) for a chance at a quality starting point guard.

I wouldn't trade the farm for him, but I also think there is some recency bias at play here.

It's one game... and in the next game he looked like he didn't belong in the league.

3 years and he has yet to shoot 40% for a season... looks good on D but EVERYONE looks good on D in Boston.

I cannot definitively say he's good at anything... and I can say with certainty that he is a bad shooter and nothing special as a passer.

I would not trade anything more than a late pick for him, especially given his contract status.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

It's one game... and in the next game he looked like he didn't belong in the league.

3 years and he has yet to shoot 40% for a season... looks good on D but EVERYONE looks good on D in Boston.

I cannot definitively say he's good at anything... and I can say with certainty that he is a bad shooter and nothing special as a passer.

I would not trade anything more than a late pick for him, especially given his contract status.

So you're saying you're a fan...

 

[Hoop Head]

IMO, 2 first round picks is a lot more than a "test drive", that's a wad blow.

The price for Payton was a test drive... and I suspect that Payton is probably the better player when all things are equal.

I understand that but he's someone the Suns would probably consider signing next offseason if they haven't addressed their PG situation yet. I'm not sure how they're going to be able to do that this year. I know you're caught up on it being 2 1st's but they're 2 1st's that don't hold much value. 1 is a mid round pick and the other is more than likely a late 1st. I'd risk it. I understand why others may not but trading the Milwaukee pick to get a PG for the next couple of years doesn't sound like an issue to me. If we kept the 16th pick we'll probably pick a PG who may or may not be the answer. The odds of the selected there being better than Rozier though have to be low. So it seems like a decent trade, IMO. I'd shop around first and see if we can't get someone like Dinwiddie for the same price but if we can't, Rozier could be a solid addition.

 

[Phrazbit]

I understand that but he's someone the Suns would probably consider signing next offseason if they haven't addressed their PG situation yet. I'm not sure how they're going to be able to do that this year. I know you're caught up on it being 2 1st's but they're 2 1st's that don't hold much value. 1 is a mid round pick and the other is more than likely a late 1st. I'd risk it. I understand why others may not but trading the Milwaukee pick to get a PG for the next couple of years doesn't sound like an issue to me. If we kept the 16th pick we'll probably pick a PG who may or may not be the answer. The odds of the selected there being better than Rozier though have to be low. So it seems like a decent trade, IMO. I'd shop around first and see if we can't get someone like Dinwiddie for the same price but if we can't, Rozier could be a solid addition.

I don't doubt that Rozier could be a solid addition, IMO he is likely a high quality backup. But you don't trade 2 first round picks for a quality backup... especially when you're currently terrible AND when that backup is about to hit free agency.

Do I think the guys we could select with those 2 picks would be worse than Rozier? Yeah... I'd guess that is a 50/50 proposition... but... even if those players provide a mere 70% of what Rozier does, they'd be doing so on a rookie contract, while Rozier would cost, at least, 10 million per season to keep, unless he is a disaster... which renders the whole point moot.

IMO, Rozier is a decent player with an obviously limited upside... if you're a terrible team, you don't get better by building from mediocrity... that is merely how you stay somewhere between bad and depressing.

Rozier may be better than what we'd get at PG in the near future... but it doesn't mean he is good.

IMO, if we're going to commit resources to a PG then we should pursue someone who can pass and shoot, even if that player is terrible in every other aspect... because that kind of player will help us evaluate everyone else on the roster. Rozier is the exact opposite of that player. The only thing I KNOW about Rozier is that he is a bad shooter and, at best, a marginal passer.

I don't think he is worth any more than Payton was.

 

[Errntknght]

I understand that but he's someone the Suns would probably consider signing next offseason if they haven't addressed their PG situation yet. I'm not sure how they're going to be able to do that this year. I know you're caught up on it being 2 1st's but they're 2 1st's that don't hold much value. 1 is a mid round pick and the other is more than likely a late 1st. I'd risk it. I understand why others may not but trading the Milwaukee pick to get a PG for the next couple of years doesn't sound like an issue to me. If we kept the 16th pick we'll probably pick a PG who may or may not be the answer. The odds of the selected there being better than Rozier though have to be low. So it seems like a decent trade, IMO. I'd shop around first and see if we can't get someone like Dinwiddie for the same price but if we can't, Rozier could be a solid addition.

Rozier is not at the top of my list for young PGs on other rosters and I don't think we'll be able to steal him from Ainge. Dinwiddie has done well as starter this year so he'll probably be prohibitively expensive. Toronto might be the only team that will willing part with one because they have two - Fred VanVleet and Delon Wright. VanV is a restricted FA so we could make him an offer Toronto would prefer not to match, as they have payroll pressure. If they match on him they might truly be forced to give up Delon Wright. Both of these guys are in the upper echelon on Defensive RPM scores, which is a good sign even though it doesn't mean the world.
Tyus Jones from Minny is my favorite in this category - second best DPRM among all PGs, high Ast/TO ratio(3.9) and shoots .457 and .349 from 3. He's good enough that he could start and shine so Minny might prefer trading him to letting him get into FA next year. (Or they migh make him the starter this next season.)

 

[Hoop Head]

Tyus Jones from Minny is my favorite in this category - second best DPRM among all PGs, high Ast/TO ratio(3.9) and shoots .457 and .349 from 3. He's good enough that he could start and shine so Minny might prefer trading him to letting him get into FA next year. (Or they migh make him the starter this next season.)

I really like Tyus Jones. I started looking at him more when the rumors of #1 for KAT started up. He's got 1 more year left on his deal but he's a good defender, rarely turns the ball over, and seems to be a good shooter by the percentages at least. I'm not sure what it cost for him but they're strapped for cash now with having to extend KAT while Wiggins extension kicks in, Teague is making big money, and so is Butler. They won't be able to afford Jones beyond this season unless they find a taker for Teague, which I think is unlikely unless they include a player like Jones to offset the cost. Teague is owed $19 million this next season with a player option for the season after for the same amount. So he's virtually untradable. If a trade can be worked with Minnesota I'd even be fine eating Cole Aldrich's salary this year, $6.8 million this year, to help them avoid the luxury tax. They're right at the tax line now and even though Aldrich is expiring, I think they'd rather spend that money on someone who will get playing time for them.

Not sure if a pick would get the job done but I'd include Troy Daniels with #16 for Jones, Daniels and #16 or #16 and Milwaukee pick. I don't value that Bucks pick as much as some, it'll be a mid to late 1st and won't help the Suns a lot if they keep it. It has the value of a Troy Daniels type player though, a cheap role player who is good enough to be a reserve. To bring in a PG that may fill the need beyond this season will probably cost #16 and the Milwaukee pick. I can't see us getting anyone decent for less than that.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I worse comes to worse, just draft the best available pg with 16, 31 and 59 and let them duke it out for a job in summer league and training camp. Keep the best one.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

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[Mainstreet]

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I'm speechless. Is Booker sending a message or what.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'm speechless. Is Booker sending a message or what.

It’s a picture of him with friends. My god I must’ve sent so many messages for years!










I’m just messing around. But not every picture has subtext.

 

[JerkFace]

I see this as much ado about nothing. They are really good friends. I would be more surprised if they didn’t spend any time together during the off-season.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

And Eric Bledsoe goes to hair salons all the time. Booker is probably just having fun with this, but he knows what he's doing.

 

[Mainstreet]

And Eric Bledsoe goes to hair salons all the time. Booker is probably just having fun with this, but he knows what he's doing.

Exactly. It's Booker's tweet.

He may be having fun but I do not doubt for a moment he would like to see Towns in a Suns uniform.

However, I think Booker is fine if the Suns draft Ayton.

 

[Hoop Head]

Thought this was interesting. Spencer Dinwiddie is someone who has been mentioned by a few posters here as someone who they would like to see the Suns acquire for the PG of the future role and apparently the Nets are shopping for a 1st round pick. They're rumored to be in talks with Washington, Denver, and Milwaukee, who have the 15th, 14th, and 17th picks in this draft, respectively. So why couldn't the Suns get in on that with their 16th pick? The only reason they aren't mentioned, I believe, is because they're looking to package that to move up but with Dinwiddie coming aboard, they wouldn't need to move up unless they're sold on another prospect.

Here's the story...

https://hoopshype.com/2018/06/08/brooklyn-nets-nba-draft-trade-rumors-milwaukee-bucks/

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

Thought this was interesting. Spencer Dinwiddie is someone who has been mentioned by a few posters here as someone who they would like to see the Suns acquire for the PG of the future role and apparently the Nets are shopping for a 1st round pick. They're rumored to be in talks with Washington, Denver, and Milwaukee, who have the 15th, 14th, and 17th picks in this draft, respectively. So why couldn't the Suns get in on that with their 16th pick? The only reason they aren't mentioned, I believe, is because they're looking to package that to move up but with Dinwiddie coming aboard, they wouldn't need to move up unless they're sold on another prospect.

Here's the story...

https://hoopshype.com/2018/06/08/brooklyn-nets-nba-draft-trade-rumors-milwaukee-bucks/

It's an interesting thought and there is a lot to like. He's 25, which is the perfect mix of developing and experienced. He was a finalist for "Most Improved". He was considered intriguing enough to be entered into the skills challenge at the all-star game and surprisingly won. (That doesn't mean much, but it's interesting nonetheless.) He also has fantastic size and flashes real potential.

On the downside, he's four years removed from a major knee injury and his shooting numbers are brutal. He shot less than 39% from the field and less than 33% from 3. Part of that is he often ended up as the first option on the Nets, but he also scored less than 13 ppg, which doesn't even qualify him for "good stats, bad team" status.

I'd probably pass, especially because he becomes a free agent after this year. So if he exceeds expectations, you've now got a potential contract headache to boot instead of a player at 16 with several years dedicated to the Suns.

 

[Hoop Head]

It's an interesting thought and there is a lot to like. He's 25, which is the perfect mix of developing and experienced. He was a finalist for "Most Improved". He was considered intriguing enough to be entered into the skills challenge at the all-star game and surprisingly won. (That doesn't mean much, but it's interesting nonetheless.) He also has fantastic size and flashes real potential.

On the downside, he's four years removed from a major knee injury and his shooting numbers are brutal. He shot less than 39% from the field and less than 33% from 3. Part of that is he often ended up as the first option on the Nets, but he also scored less than 13 ppg, which doesn't even qualify him for "good stats, bad team" status.

I'd probably pass, especially because he becomes a free agent after this year. So if he exceeds expectations, you've now got a potential contract headache to boot instead of a player at 16 with several years dedicated to the Suns.

If we don't like who is available at 16, I'd see if they'd deal. Maybe not agreeing in advance or making the deal contingent on certain players we'd be interested in needing to be off the board. We're looking for a PG, they're not, so it's unlikely we'd be after the same players so I could see something like that working in theory. I'd be for it because we'd have a year with him before deciding whether to pay him or not. It would be similar to the Elfrid Payton trade, try him out before buying him. Problem here is that he was a 2nd round pick so his time as a restricted free agent has come and gone, we'd have his bird rights but what good does that really do when we're talking about a player that should get around the mid level exception? I'd like for the Suns to kick the tires, see what it would cost. No harm there. If they'd take 31 for him, then I'd jump on that and include 58.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

If we don't like who is available at 16, I'd see if they'd deal. Maybe not agreeing in advance or making the deal contingent on certain players we'd be interested in needing to be off the board. We're looking for a PG, they're not, so it's unlikely we'd be after the same players so I could see something like that working in theory. I'd be for it because we'd have a year with him before deciding whether to pay him or not. It would be similar to the Elfrid Payton trade, try him out before buying him. Problem here is that he was a 2nd round pick so his time as a restricted free agent has come and gone, we'd have his bird rights but what good does that really do when we're talking about a player that should get around the mid level exception? I'd like for the Suns to kick the tires, see what it would cost. No harm there. If they'd take 31 for him, then I'd jump on that and include 58.

First of all, the Nuggets will be mad that you traded their second round pick without asking. But yeah...for 31 and 59 he would be a great gamble. Doubt that gets it done, but who knows....