Suns 2024-2025 Season Discussions

[hcsilla]

The comments below, made by Mat Ishbia in May, haven't aged well.


By Kellan Olson, Arizona Sports, 5-1- 2024:

Ishbia was asked to assess the moves he’s made with accountability in mind, a question surely focused primarily on the Kevin Durant trade but also the others made last offseason.

“I feel really great about all the things we’ve done in 15 months. The outcome of this year’s playoff series and last year’s playoff series, let’s take those two things out of there, besides that I feel like we’ve made a lot of amazing decisions,” Ishbia said, going on to clarify those are team decisions and not just his before rattling off some of Phoenix’s correctly labeled decisions to upgrade the franchise off the court.

“You look back at some of the trades that James and all of us were part of. We do those things 100 out of 100 times. Not 99 out of 100, 100 out of 100 and we’d still do them again and I think the other 29 GMs would all do the same exact thing.”

Suns remain confident, paint picture beyond bleak end to season

The Phoenix Suns officially concluded the 2023-24 season with a strange end-of-season availability for Mat Ishbia and James Jones.

arizonasports.com

The question is how he feels about these moves now.

 

[Hoop Head]

He wasn't really. Turner came up when rumours of the Pacers signing Ayton to a big offer sheet started to circle and it was rumoured that they offered Turner as a sign-and-trade for Ayton.

There was a report that Monty asked for Ayton to be dealt for Turner. Apparently the front office, being JJ, said no.

Former Suns Coach Wanted Deandre Ayton, Pacers Swap

The Phoenix Suns didn't want Indiana Pacers center Myles Turner - but former coach Monty Williams sure did.

www.si.com

 

[Superbone]

We rarely talk about it because of Doncic but how much better is Jaren Jackson Jr. than Ayton? He kills us every time. So many players would have been better picks in that draft.

 

[Broseph]

This team is so cooked: a collection of players not working together, zero hustle, zero motivation, and an injury carousel. I have never been so checked out on a Suns team in decades. I'd rather us have a young, rebuilding core with our draft picks.

 

[GatorAZ]

We rarely talk about it because of Doncic but how much better is Jaren Jackson Jr. than Ayton? He kills us every time. So many players would have been better picks in that draft.

JJJ was a late bloomer. He wouldn’t have made a difference during the CP3 years plus he was never going #1.

 

[AzStevenCal]

JJJ was a late bloomer. He wouldn’t have made a difference during the CP3 years plus he was never going #1.

Not to mention his injuries. Still, looking at it now, I'd have much rather we'd traded down and selected him and banked some extra picks.

 

[Hoop Head]

We rarely talk about it because of Doncic but how much better is Jaren Jackson Jr. than Ayton? He kills us every time. So many players would have been better picks in that draft.

JJJ is what we wanted Ayton to be. A legit rim protector with a good 3 point shot and ferocity inside when finishing. I remember when the team was cycling prospects through when we had the #1 pick and JJJ was here. He had a great press conference of sorts. I was all in on Ayton but JJJ was impressive.

I didn't envision JJJ becoming as good as he has become. I do question his rebounding numbers though. And don't watch Memphis enough to know if he's boxing out for others or just a bad rebounder. He's never averaged more than 6 a game in his career, even when he was Defensive Player of the Year.

 

[Hoop Head]

JJJ was a late bloomer. He wouldn’t have made a difference during the CP3 years plus he was never going #1.

He was #4 in rookie of the Year voting, Ayton was 3rd. That class had Mikal, Shai, Brunson and more who didn't beat him. He averaged 13.8 ppg his rookie year while shooting 36% from deep. His second year he improved to 17.4 ppg while shooting 40% from 3 on 6 attempts a game. At the same time Ayton averaged 18.2 ppg, up from 16.4 ppg as a rookie. So I don't see the "late bloomer" angle.

JJJ played next to Marc Gasol and Jonas Valenciunis as the PF in Memphis so rebounding numbers don't translate well as that wasn't his primary responsibility. His scoring jumped from year 1 to 2 almost double what Ayton's did once Ja was drafted, meanwhile the Suns added Rubio. So it's not like one got a great playmaker while the other didn't.

Injuries hurt JJJ in year 3, he only played 11 games. In year 4 he was an All-Star and Defensive Player of the Year. He was clearly on ascending before injuries derailed his 3rd year.

 

[Ronin]

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Five teams in the Western Conference have recently shown trade interest in Jonas Valanciunas:
Lakers
Nuggets
Rockets
Suns
Warriors
Valanciunas is averaging 11.9 points and 8.0 rebounds in only 19.9 minutes for the Wizards this season.

 

[Mainstreet]

JJJ is what we wanted Ayton to be. A legit rim protector with a good 3 point shot and ferocity inside when finishing. I remember when the team was cycling prospects through when we had the #1 pick and JJJ was here. He had a great press conference of sorts. I was all in on Ayton but JJJ was impressive.

I didn't envision JJJ becoming as good as he has become. I do question his rebounding numbers though. And don't watch Memphis enough to know if he's boxing out for others or just a bad rebounder. He's never averaged more than 6 a game in his career, even when he was Defensive Player of the Year.

Ryan McDonough fell in love with Jaren Jackson Jr. in workouts because of his shooting.

If there was another player the Suns would have drafted besides Ayton, I think it would have been him.

 

[Covert Rain]

Yep. About right.

 

[Yuma]

We rarely talk about it because of Doncic but how much better is Jaren Jackson Jr. than Ayton? He kills us every time. So many players would have been better picks in that draft.

Most off that is desire and aggression. Jackson Jr has it, and Ayton doesn't. Ayton arguably has as much skill. He just doesn't bring it. Jaren is miles ahead of Ayton at this point.

 

[GatorAZ]

He was #4 in rookie of the Year voting, Ayton was 3rd. That class had Mikal, Shai, Brunson and more who didn't beat him. He averaged 13.8 ppg his rookie year while shooting 36% from deep. His second year he improved to 17.4 ppg while shooting 40% from 3 on 6 attempts a game. At the same time Ayton averaged 18.2 ppg, up from 16.4 ppg as a rookie. So I don't see the "late bloomer" angle.

JJJ played next to Marc Gasol and Jonas Valenciunis as the PF in Memphis so rebounding numbers don't translate well as that wasn't his primary responsibility. His scoring jumped from year 1 to 2 almost double what Ayton's did once Ja was drafted, meanwhile the Suns added Rubio. So it's not like one got a great playmaker while the other didn't.

Injuries hurt JJJ in year 3, he only played 11 games. In year 4 he was an All-Star and Defensive Player of the Year. He was clearly on ascending before injuries derailed his 3rd year.

He’s averaging 6 rebounds a game lol. He’s good not great.

 

[Hoop Head]

He’s averaging 6 rebounds a game lol. He’s good not great.

He's a former All-Star, DPOY, and a PF. How many boards does KD average or how many did Crowder? Rebounds aren't the whole story. I acknowledged his rebounding rate yet you want to focus on that instead of his overall impact? That's your choice but there's really no metric that shows he was a "late bloomer" as you stated.

 

[GatorAZ]

He's a former All-Star, DPOY, and a PF. How many boards does KD average or how many did Crowder? Rebounds aren't the whole story. I acknowledged his rebounding rate yet you want to focus on that instead of his overall impact? That's your choice but there's really no metric that shows he was a "late bloomer" as you stated.

And all that happened in year 5 = late bloomer. Still averaging 6 rebounds a game.

 

[GatorAZ]

Plus two picks:
.

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[95pro]

JJJ is what we wanted Ayton to be. A legit rim protector with a good 3 point shot and ferocity inside when finishing. I remember when the team was cycling prospects through when we had the #1 pick and JJJ was here. He had a great press conference of sorts. I was all in on Ayton but JJJ was impressive.

I didn't envision JJJ becoming as good as he has become. I do question his rebounding numbers though. And don't watch Memphis enough to know if he's boxing out for others or just a bad rebounder. He's never averaged more than 6 a game in his career, even when he was Defensive Player of the Year.

I don’t remember anyone thinking Ayton should/would become a 3pt threat. Who’s “we”?

The grizz let their guards grab rebounds and push tempo when they can. Ja is ok rebounder for his size, about 5 a game.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I don’t remember anyone thinking Ayton should/would become a 3pt threat. Who’s “we”?

The grizz let their guards grab rebounds and push tempo when they can. Ja is ok rebounder for his size, about 5 a game.

There was at least one poster who would castigate the Suns for not indulging in Ayton’s rather clueless desire to shoot 3s.

 

[Hoop Head]

And all that happened in year 5 = late bloomer. Still averaging 6 rebounds a game.

He was All Defense 1st team in year 4 and year 5. I posted the stats, he wasn't a "late bloomer". In his 3rd full season he was a DPOY candidate, finishing 5th in voting, and averaging 16 ppg to go with 2.3 blocks a game. That isn't being a late bloomer. He was 22 years old.

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That is the consistent improvement you want to see in an 18 year old you draft.

 

[95pro]

Plus two picks:
.

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Might as well send Beal for Ingram while we are at it.

Seriously Beal for that would entice me. We’d have more depth. We get rid of Lee.

Zion hopefully has something to play for, I think he’s up soon or can be dropped. In theory another contract could mean more McDonald’s for Zion.

 

[Hoop Head]

I don’t remember anyone thinking Ayton should/would become a 3pt threat. Who’s “we”?

The grizz let their guards grab rebounds and push tempo when they can. Ja is ok rebounder for his size, about 5 a game.

Thanks for the input on the Grizzlies style. I figured they ran an OKC/Westbrook type system where their guards get the ball and move while their bigs box out.

As far as "we", I mean Suns fans. That's the modern NBA. The aversion to Ayton shooting 3's is he was a poor shooter from further out. He was a post player who couldn't post anyone up. If he could shoot 40% from 3, who wouldn't want him shooting from outside? He was supposed to challenge Embiid as the best modern Center in the league. Capable of doing anything. His 3pt shooting wasn't a requirement but if he proved capable of hitting them then it would have freed up the offense that much more. He wanted to shoot them but never improved. He sulked because Monty wouldn't indulge him despite not actually proving to be a capable shooter when given the chance.

It wasn't a requirement but he was supposed to be a top talent, a franchise C to lead us through this decade. What C in the league can be called a franchise C who isn't a 3 point threat? Wemby, Embiid, KAT, Jokic, Anthony Davis all fit that bill.

 

[Hoop Head]

Plus two picks:
.

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This doesn't make any sense for New Orleans. They can cut Zion and free up max cap space to go with Ingram's expiring deal this summer. You want them to throw in recent draft picks, like their 2023 lotto pick Hawkins, and add extra picks to rent KD? I don't see Durant being cool with going there either. So they'd give up a ton for Durant to ask out and be forced to shop him again?

I'd add, Green and Hawkins are both SG's. Why do we need more SG's? Young or not. It doesn't make sense. Even if the plan is to move Booker and Beal, which is debatable given our plans for Zion. We aren't cutting him if we trade KD for him. There's no chance this front office doesn't kick the tires on him.

 

[95pro]

Thanks for the input on the Grizzlies style. I figured they ran an OKC/Westbrook type system where their guards get the ball and move while their bigs box out.

As far as "we", I mean Suns fans. That's the modern NBA. The aversion to Ayton shooting 3's is he was a poor shooter from further out. He was a post player who couldn't post anyone up. If he could shoot 40% from 3, who wouldn't want him shooting from outside? He was supposed to challenge Embiid as the best modern Center in the league. Capable of doing anything. His 3pt shooting wasn't a requirement but if he proved capable of hitting them then it would have freed up the offense that much more. He wanted to shoot them but never improved. He sulked because Monty wouldn't indulge him despite not actually proving to be a capable shooter when given the chance.

It wasn't a requirement but he was supposed to be a top talent, a franchise C to lead us through this decade. What C in the league can be called a franchise C who isn't a 3 point threat? Wemby, Embiid, KAT, Jokic, Anthony Davis all fit that bill.

Oh I recall now that Ayton himself wanted more 3pt attempts after the finals year.

His mid range did seem to be coming around though. We wanted him to take to the hoop instead, this lead to him being labeled as soft.

 

[Hoop Head]

Oh I recall now that Ayton himself wanted more 3pt attempts after the finals year.

His mid range did seem to be coming around though. We wanted him to take to the hoop instead, this lead to him being soft.

His midrange was nice within 10-12 feet but he also took those because he was scared of contact inside. The midrange became a detriment because other teams let him have it since he wasn't going inside for an And-1, adding a foul to their big, or kicking it out to someone else for a 3.

Ayton had the tools to be amazing, he still does, but he lacks the BB IQ, focus, and drive to be more than he is. He thinks he's Dominayton by dropping an impressive box score every other week.

Ayton was the smart pick, from a gambling perspective. The house always wins though so I imagine if we went with Luka or JJJ, we'd be miserable like we are now for a different reason. We're Arizona Sports Fans, it's our fate.

 

[GatorAZ]

He was All Defense 1st team in year 4 and year 5. I posted the stats, he wasn't a "late bloomer". In his 3rd full season he was a DPOY candidate, finishing 5th in voting, and averaging 16 ppg to go with 2.3 blocks a game. That isn't being a late bloomer. He was 22 years old.

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That is the consistent improvement you want to see in an 18 year old you draft.

Yeah nice player that just now rounding into an all around big man. I’m sure he’ll make all-NBA at some point which 4 players from his draft class have already done. He’s definitely on pace to pass Mitchell Robinson for career win shares if he keeps this up.