Suns 2024-2025 Season Discussions

[Ronin]

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[Superbone]

IMO, a lot of that was James Jones. Before he sold the team, Sarver had shown a willingness to spend.

However, I don't think we would have seen the trade for Durant, as it was constructed, under Sarver.

I disagree. I don't think James Jones just got magically better at the draft after Sarver left. There is a reason for it. Sarver did not spend much money on scouting and the draft process. He also famously disassembled our renowned training staff.

 

[Mainstreet]

I disagree. I don't think James Jones just got magically better at the draft after Sarver left. There is a reason for it. Sarver did not spend much money on scouting and the draft process. He also famously disassembled our renowned training staff.

We already know Mat Ishbia made changes in the Suns scouting department.

I don't think James Jones suddenly got good at drafting, except for perhaps Cam Johnson, whom he seemed to take a hands-on approach. We know the 2020 draft was a disaster and the Suns traded a first round pick for Landry Shamet.

 

[Hoop Head]

I disagree. I don't think James Jones just got magically better at the draft after Sarver left. There is a reason for it. Sarver did not spend much money on scouting and the draft process. He also famously disassembled our renowned training staff.

Our renowned training staff has been struggling in New Orleans for roughly a decade now. I think they got lucky with aging vets who were dedicated to their recovery and finishing their playing days on a high note. Sarver cheaped out, which caused them to leave, but they haven't exactly proved their worth in NO.

Sarver was cheap. James Jones didn't/doesn't like the draft. It was a match in that neither cared or tried to maximize what the Suns got.

Ishbia is spending more scouting and he's also hired more front office personnel. Any credit for improvement with rookies and the Suns should go to Ishbia. Jones may sign off on picks but I don't believe he's finding the prospects or is who singled out guys like Dunn.

We already know Mat Ishbia made changes in the Suns scouting department.

I don't think James Jones suddenly got good at drafting, except for perhaps Cam Johnson, whom he seemed to take a hands-on approach. We know the 2020 draft was a disaster and the Suns traded a first round pick for Landry Shamet.

JJ doesn't deserve credit for Cam Johnson. Jeff Bower was the guy behind the pick. He had links to Cam's family pre NCAA and then became an Assistant GM here right before we selected Cam. The link there is way too strong to ignore.

 

[Yuma]

Geez, there's likely a better than 10% to 20% chance I'll be dead before the Suns pick in the first round of the draft again.

I've been saying that for decades about us getting a Championship.

 

[Yuma]

This has been a nightmare 3rd quarter.

 

[Mainstreet]

The Suns and Nets will play two preseason games in China in October of 2025.

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[Ronin]

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[hcsilla]

Patrick Williams makes $18m a year with 3 seasons beyond this guaranteed and 1 more player option. All flat in salary, $18m per with the Bulls.

Robert Williams makes $12.43 million this year and $13.29 guaranteed next season with the Blazers.

Isaiah Stewart makes $15m a year this year and for the next 2 seasons. There's a team option for a 4th year at $15m also with the Pistons.

Chris Boucher makes $10.8 million this year and has no further guarantees with the Raptors.

Nick Richards is making $5 million this year as well as next for the Hornets.

Jonas Valenciunas is making $9.9 million this year, $10.4 next year, and $10 million in the final year with the Wizards.

Zach Collins is making $16.74 million this year and $18.1 next season for the Spurs.

Walker Kessler is in year 3 of a rookie deal, paying him $2.97 million this and $4.88 next season before he is eligible for restricted free agency in Utah. He won't be dealt before then unless it involves a star.

Larry Nance Jr is making $11.2 million in his last year for the Hawks.

Good list, except Patrick Williams, who is a combo F not a PF/C.

I would also exclude Larry Nance, because he is backup bigman in a team that wants to make the play-off (at least), therefore he is probably unavailable.

I would start from the other side: what do the Suns have to offer for the above-listed players?

Since POR, WAS, CHA and UTA all are re-building teams, they want younger players with potential and/or draft picks. The Suns have Dunn and Ighodaro, their own 2031 1st rounder and 2 future 2nd rounders from DEN. They can combine these with smaller (Okogie and O'Neal) and more sizeable (Nurkic and Allen) contracts.

I would trade Nurkic and 2031 unprotected 1st for Clarkson and Kessler, but the Jazz would refuse it if they think that Kessler is their future C.

Other than this I can hardly see any trades for the above players that are both at least semi-realistic and help the Suns at the same time.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Good list, except Patrick Williams, who is a combo F not a PF/C.

I would also exclude Larry Nance, because he is backup bigman in a team that wants to make the play-off (at least), therefore he is probably unavailable.

I would start from the other side: what do the Suns have to offer for the above-listed players?

Since POR, WAS, CHA and UTA all are re-building teams, they want younger players with potential and/or draft picks. The Suns have Dunn and Ighodaro, their own 2031 1st rounder and 2 future 2nd rounders from DEN. They can combine these with smaller (Okogie and O'Neal) and more sizeable (Nurkic and Allen) contracts.

I would trade Nurkic and 2031 unprotected 1st for Clarkson and Kessler, but the Jazz would refuse it if they think that Kessler is their future C.

Other than this I can hardly see any trades for the above players that are both at least semi-realistic and help the Suns at the same time.

I think Kessler is a good target but I don't know how we get there. Maybe we can trade Grayson to a contender that needs shooting for a couple of medium to low value draft picks and throw them into a deal with our 2031 pick or something like that?

 

[hcsilla]

I think Kessler is a good target but I don't know how we get there. Maybe we can trade Grayson to a contender that needs shooting for a couple of medium to low value draft picks and throw them into a deal with our 2031 pick or something like that?

Allen for Melton, GSW 2025 lottery protected 1st? Would not we miss his contribution from the bench?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Allen for Melton, GSW 2025 lottery protected 1st? Would not we miss his contribution from the bench?

We ain’t getting that for Allen, IMO.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Allen for Melton, GSW 2025 lottery protected 1st? Would not we miss his contribution from the bench?

Definitely but Nurkic by himself has little if any trade value so I don't think our 2031 pick is going to get it done. We might have to make a couple of trades where we take back bad contracts to pick up enough picks to interest Utah.

 

[AzStevenCal]

We ain’t getting that for Allen, IMO.

I have no idea if they'd be interested but I'd consider Melton to be negative value since he's out for the season. So a protected first from a team that expects to contend seems like reasonable value for Grayson.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I have no idea if they'd be interested but I'd consider Melton to be negative value since he's out for the season. So a protected first from a team that expects to contend seems like reasonable value for Grayson.

I thought Melton was on a multi-year deal, so could be.

 

[leclerc]

Bringing what intensity. They always get beat on intensity. Either right from the get go, or after halftime.

 

[hcsilla]

Definitely but Nurkic by himself has little if any trade value so I don't think our 2031 pick is going to get it done.

Yes, that's quite possible but remember that the Spurs traded #8 for a 2031 MIN future 1st and a 2030 pick swap.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Yes, that's quite possible but remember that the Spurs traded #8 for a 2031 MIN future 1st and a 2030 pick swap.

Yeah, good point. But I'm also unsure how motivated Utah will be to acquire more future picks given that they already have banked a lot of them.

 

[hcsilla]

Yeah, good point. But I'm also unsure how motivated Utah will be to acquire more future picks given that they already have banked a lot of them.

Yes, that's difficult to judge. I was surprised that they traded Agbaji for a mid 1st rounder, I'm not sure that Kessler is more of a future building block.

 

[Mainstreet]

It's a matter of identifying the problem versus the symptoms.

The Suns were doing just fine before they traded for Kevin Durant.

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[ASUCHRIS]

What's striking is nearly every team we play is bigger/younger/stronger, and they play harder. That's tough to overcome, especially since Booker and Beal have been so bad.

 

[Mainstreet]

What's striking is nearly every team we play is bigger/younger/stronger, and they play harder. That's tough to overcome, especially since Booker and Beal have been so bad.

What we have been seeing is Oso or Plumlee out there with four guards or Royce O'Neal who is only 6'4."

There is a hole in the middle and the Suns went into the season without it being fixed.

Opponents have figured it out. It's not rocket science.

 

[AzStevenCal]

What's striking is nearly every team we play is bigger/younger/stronger, and they play harder. That's tough to overcome, especially since Booker and Beal have been so bad.

Yeah. I still consider myself a Devin Booker fan but he hasn't been the same for a couple years now. I don't know if it's his private life or whatever but all too often he gets outplayed by much "lesser" players even when he's racking up stats.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Yeah. I still consider myself a Devin Booker fan but he hasn't been the same for a couple years now. I don't know if it's his private life or whatever but all too often he gets outplayed by much "lesser" players even when he's racking up stats.

He hasn't looked like the same guy since Chris Paul left. Perhaps he's another KD "not a lead dog" personality who needs to be the second banana, but he's completely lost his ability to be a killer scorer this year. It's painful to watch.

 

[AzStevenCal]

He hasn't looked like the same guy since Chris Paul left. Perhaps he's another KD "not a lead dog" personality who needs to be the second banana, but he's completely lost his ability to be a killer scorer this year. It's painful to watch.

Actually I think it started while CP was declining right before our eyes. Coincidentally I think it was right around the time that rumors came out that he was re-engaging with what's her name.