Suns 2024-2025 Season Discussions

[95pro]

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Isaiah Stewart come on down. @Mainstreet

If we could swap back Allen and Nurk for Ayton, I'm in.

 

[AzStevenCal]

If we could swap back Allen and Nurk for Ayton, I'm in.

I miss the possibilities of Ayton but I don't miss the headaches. I wouldn't want him back but I wouldn't make the deal if we could go back in time. I'd just keep looking for a better deal.

 

[Covert Rain]

I miss the possibilities of Ayton but I don't miss the headaches. I wouldn't want him back but I wouldn't make the deal if we could go back in time. I'd just keep looking for a better deal.

There were no real possibilities with Ayton. He is what he is. A career 15/10 guy that is never going to live up to the #1 pick. I think his stint with Portland confirms that.

 

[Proximo]

If we could swap back Allen and Nurk for Ayton, I'm in.

We can't.

We can only include 1 player in any trade due to the 2nd apron restrictions.

Ayton isn't the answer anyway, I underestimated what a total loser that guy is. He is now clearly a mercenary only playing for money. You don't want those guys no matter how talented they are.

 

[Proximo]

There were no real possibilities with Ayton. He is what he is. A career 15/10 guy that is never going to live up to the #1 pick. I think his stint with Portland confirms that.

It does. What rings out to me now with absolute clarity about him is when they asked him what he was looking forward to in his NBA career and his answer was his second contract. That really said it all it turns out.

 

[AzStevenCal]

There were no real possibilities with Ayton. He is what he is. A career 15/10 guy that is never going to live up to the #1 pick. I think his stint with Portland confirms that.

I wouldn't say it that way. He showed us many times what he would have been capable of doing had he been sufficiently motivated. But if your point was just that those possibilities would never be realized, I agree. He was just a fantasy. Every athlete cares about the money but he is walking proof that some people play solely for the paycheck.

 

[Proximo]

Ouch... one season here and he's already a negative value.

He is the same guy we traded for, the same guy that played last year, and yeah in most situations he sucks.

But it would be beyond stupid to use a draft pick to dump him. He does have a little value - he is very good at guarding Jokic for example.

 

[95pro]

We can't.

We can only include 1 player in any trade due to the 2nd apron restrictions.

Ayton isn't the answer anyway, I underestimated what a total loser that guy is. He is now clearly a mercenary only playing for money. You don't want those guys no matter how talented they are.

I think that is well known by all now.

He may not be then answer, but he is more complimentary to this squad that Nurk and Allen are.

So what he's not the # 1 pick we all wanted, does he take plays off, does he suck sometimes, yes and yes...but he's still better than Nurk's slow body. Will Ayton allow us to play better team defense, yes because he's mobile and athletic. Does Ayton have the speed to keep up with some of the quick centers AND wings in the nba, yes, if he tries.

I mean now we have a buff Allen playing pf for us now.

 

[Mainstreet]

I mean now we have a buff Allen playing pf for us now.

I never thought I would say this but give me the college version of Grayson Allen.

 

[Hoop Head]

He is the same guy we traded for, the same guy that played last year, and yeah in most situations he sucks.

But it would be beyond stupid to use a draft pick to dump him. He does have a little value - he is very good at guarding Jokic for example.

His value hasn't gone down, it's the same as it was. The Suns whiffed when they dealt Ayton. Somehow we downgraded the C position, gave up a rookie on a cheap 4 year deal, and didn't get a single pick in return.

I don't trust that JJ could find a better trade now. He already waited too long to trade Ayton. Trades definitely aren't a strength of JJ's as a GM and now there'd be more restrictions as to what we could send out, who to, and what we could receive.

 

[Covert Rain]

I think that is well known by all now.

He may not be then answer, but he is more complimentary to this squad that Nurk and Allen are.

So what he's not the # 1 pick we all wanted, does he take plays off, does he suck sometimes, yes and yes...but he's still better than Nurk's slow body. Will Ayton allow us to play better team defense, yes because he's mobile and athletic. Does Ayton have the speed to keep up with some of the quick centers AND wings in the nba, yes, if he tries.

I mean now we have a buff Allen playing pf for us now.

He is a better defender but you are not factoring in the headcase part of Ayton. Any perceived advantages over Nurk get wiped immediately on that alone.

 

[Mainstreet]

His value hasn't gone down, it's the same as it was. The Suns whiffed when they dealt Ayton. Somehow we downgraded the C position, gave up a rookie on a cheap 4 year deal, and didn't get a single pick in return.

I don't trust that JJ could find a better trade now. He already waited too long to trade Ayton. Trades definitely aren't a strength of JJ's as a GM and now there'd be more restrictions as to what we could send out, who to, and what we could receive.

I think the Suns could have definitely done the Ayton trade without including Toumani Camara.

Also, think much the same about the Durant trade.

Can't get locked into a trade just to make one. Then the GM loses all leverage.

 

[Hoop Head]

I think the Suns could have definitely done the Ayton trade without including Toumani Camara.

Also, think much the same about the Durant trade.

Can't get locked into a trade just to make one. Then the GM loses all leverage.

A young frontcourt of Oso, Camara, and Dunn off the bench would be excellent. We'd have some depth, youth, and size we could turn to. How or why Camara was included still leaves me scratching my head. JJ just had to prove he was getting the shaft.

 

[Mainstreet]

A young frontcourt of Oso, Camara, and Dunn off the bench would be excellent. We'd have some depth, youth, and size we could turn to. How or why Camara was included still leaves me scratching my head. JJ just had to prove he was getting the shaft.

It's hard to believe James Jones was the primary scout in finding Camara, Dunn and Ighodaro.

 

[Ronin]

Duane Rankin

@DuaneRankin
·
1h

Kevin Durant (ankle) didn't make the trip to New Orleans, but Jusuf Nurkic (thigh) did.Is on the stationary bike as we speak. Suns open 3-game road trip vs. Pelicans. Playing Lil' Wayne right now. Miami, Orlando this weekend in back-to-back

 

[Suns_fan69]

I think that is well known by all now.

He may not be then answer, but he is more complimentary to this squad that Nurk and Allen are.

So what he's not the # 1 pick we all wanted, does he take plays off, does he suck sometimes, yes and yes...but he's still better than Nurk's slow body. Will Ayton allow us to play better team defense, yes because he's mobile and athletic. Does Ayton have the speed to keep up with some of the quick centers AND wings in the nba, yes, if he tries.

I mean now we have a buff Allen playing pf for us now.

The idea of DA is better than the reality. Yes, in theory DA does all those things better, but, at least during the last year with him, he didn't. The key phrase you had there was 'if he tries'. The coaches and team were frustrated with his effort all year; he was lazy, uninterested in defense when not getting touches on offense and routinely got torched by wings even when he was engaged. On offense he fades away even against smaller defenders, prefers to pick and pop to rolling hard at the rim and heads to the free throw *line at an absurdly low rate.

There's maybe an argument that this behavior was a direct result of the fractured relationship with Monty, but he isn't exactly lighting the world up in Portland. I'd do that trade again 10 times out of 10.

 

[Hoop Head]

The idea of DA is better than the reality. Yes, in theory DA does all those things better, but, at least during the last year with him, he didn't. The key phrase you had there was 'if he tries'. The coaches and team was frustrated with his effort all year; he was lazy, uninterested in defense when not getting touches on offense and routinely got torched by wings even when he was engaged. On offense he fades away even against smaller defenders, prefers to pick and pop to rolling hard at the rim and heads to the free throw rate at an absurdly low rate.

There's maybe an argument that this behavior was a direct result of the fractured relationship with Monty, but he isn't exactly lighting the world up in Portland. I'd do that trade again 10 times out of 10.

Only reason I don't do it 10/10 is I don't include Camara. Ideally we'd talk them into keeping Little as well, who is now a cap casualty. I agree with everything else.

It's hard to believe James Jones was the primary scout in finding Camara, Dunn and Ighodaro.

I seriously doubt he was. He may have signed off but that's the extent of his involvement.

 

[Superbone]

He is a better defender but you are not factoring in the headcase part of Ayton. Any perceived advantages over Nurk get wiped immediately on that alone.

I'd take him back if he promised not to talk but that's not happening. I never again want to hear about DominAyton from a guy who avoids contact at all costs.

 

[Superbone]

It's hard to believe James Jones was the primary scout in finding Camara, Dunn and Ighodaro.

Apparently, Sarver was the limiting factor.

 

[Mainstreet]

Apparently, Sarver was the limiting factor.

I'm not sure why that would be. It shouldn't have been about money.

Dunn was a late first round pick. Camara and Ighodaro were second round picks.

Scouting changes could account for this, I suppose.

 

[Hoop Head]

I'm not sure why that would be. It shouldn't have been about money.

Dunn was a late first round pick. Camara and Ighodaro were second round picks.

Scouting changes could account for this, I suppose.

I can see the point for Server being against rookies, regardless of cost. He cut guys loose early often. He seemed to prefer an elder statesmen to a rookie also because in most cases the vet would perform better.

There's also some weird kickback from for league minimum deals. I'm not entirely sure what it is. I think the league pays the difference between a minimum for an undrafted rookie and a 10 year vet on the league minimum, which is $1-2 million. Server loved saving money and it probably felt like he was getting one over on the league, having a vet for the price of a rookie.

 

[Superbone]

I'm not sure why that would be. It shouldn't have been about money.

Dunn was a late first round pick. Camara and Ighodaro were second round picks.

Scouting changes could account for this, I suppose.

Yep, cheaping out on scouting and not making drafting a priority. He was penny wise, pound foolish.

 

[Mainstreet]

Yep, cheaping out on scouting and not making drafting a priority. He was penny wise, pound foolish.

IMO, a lot of that was James Jones. Before he sold the team, Sarver had shown a willingness to spend.

However, I don't think we would have seen the trade for Durant, as it was constructed, under Sarver.

 

[Covert Rain]

IMO, a lot of that was James Jones. Before he sold the team, Sarver had shown a willingness to spend.

However, I don't think we would have seen the trade for Durant, as it was constructed, under Sarver.

Yes and no. Sarver showed some willingness to spend but only to a point. He for example would have never spent the type of money that Ishbia has under any circumstances.

 

[Mainstreet]

Yes and no. Sarver showed some willingness to spend but only to a point. He for example would have never spent the type of money that Ishbia has under any circumstances.

I think most NBA owners, probably even to a higher degree, would not spend the money Mat Ishbia is willing to spend on players.