Suns 2024-2025 Season Discussions

[taz02]

A championship is out of reach until we establish a superstar leader. Someone who can carry the team in big games.

Previous playoff series; Booker vs opponent’s best player:

Bucks- Gianas led all players in both PTS and TRB in 3 of the 6 games Booker lead all player in PTS in 2 of the 6 games. Phoenix lost game 6 by 7.

Dallas- Doncic led all players in PTS 5 of 7 games, TRB 5 of 7 games, and lead both categories 4 of 7. Booker led all players in PTS in two games, suns lost by 33 in game 7.

Denver- Jokic led all players in TRB in 5 of 6 games, PTS 4 of 6 games and led all players in both PTS and TRB in 3 of 6. By contrast Booker lead all players in PTS in one game, suns lost game 6 by 25.

Minnesota- Swept in 4 games, Booker lead all players in PTS in one game scoring 49 in the game 6 loss.

You need someone to carry the team in big high-pressure games. Having “that guy” doesn’t guarantee a championship but it improves your chances considerably.

 

[BirdGangThing]

we're beyond screwed - can't lean into it - but i was thinking last night and there's usually a team that limps into the playoffs that struggled all year and got hot right when it mattered

ive been watching the same basketball as yall - it's bad with no signs of improvement - it's the same couple few problems that surface night in night out - turnovers rebounds and going inexplicably cold from 3 - problem is they tend to coincide at the same time - we simply collapse

but (and you knew the but was coming) we did start out hot and we've looked better than decent at times - making it all the more infuriating - but we're a completely different team than what we started with

tyus can dribble it down court but we're at our best when we move the ball effectively as a team - but this requires 5 different suns to all take care of the ball at the same time - which never happens

they attack our passing lanes they go on fast breaks and we fall apart - time and time again so when are we going to start anticipating the blitz? when will we fake the dangerous pass and start cutting to the basket?

and rebounds - the one thing bud feels he can control (and bench players for) - why can't we go bigger at power forward more often? oso and bol bol can do this - if we don't have a "true" point guard on the floor wth not?

moral of the story is we are capable - idc what anyone says - and we haven't played anywhere near our best basketball yet - especially with richards still finding his way

i give the suns about a 25% chance of limping into the play-in as we stand heading into all star weekend - i only give us about a 10% chance of catching fire at the perfect time - ok maybe 5%

 

[AzStevenCal]

we're beyond screwed - can't lean into it - but i was thinking last night and there's usually a team that limps into the playoffs that struggled all year and got hot right when it mattered

ive been watching the same basketball as yall - it's bad with no signs of improvement - it's the same couple few problems that surface night in night out - turnovers rebounds and going inexplicably cold from 3 - problem is they tend to coincide at the same time - we simply collapse

but (and you knew the but was coming) we did start out hot and we've looked better than decent at times - making it all the more infuriating - but we're a completely different team than what we started with

tyus can dribble it down court but we're at our best when we move the ball effectively as a team - but this requires 5 different suns to all take care of the ball at the same time - which never happens

they attack our passing lanes they go on fast breaks and we fall apart - time and time again so when are we going to start anticipating the blitz? when will we fake the dangerous pass and start cutting to the basket?

and rebounds - the one thing bud feels he can control (and bench players for) - why can't we go bigger at power forward more often? oso and bol bol can do this - if we don't have a "true" point guard on the floor wth not?

moral of the story is we are capable - idc what anyone says - and we haven't played anywhere near our best basketball yet - especially with richards still finding his way

i give the suns about a 25% chance of limping into the play-in as we stand heading into all star weekend - i only give us about a 10% chance of catching fire at the perfect time - ok maybe 5%

I'm not very hopeful but I think there's an outside chance that this team could have a late season turnaround. But I think Beal and Dunn both need to return to full health for that to happen. I also think Bol Bol needs more court time even though I'm well aware he could fall flat on his face - we just don't have enough athleticism on this roster.

 

[GatorAZ]

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[BirdGangThing]

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better stop that - you're gonna go blind

 

[AzStevenCal]

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I'd love to have Mikal back but that's probably not the way to go, it would just be a retool doomed to fail IMO. We really have to rebuild, we have to recoup a full slate of future draft picks. Any big move we make that doesn't address our lack of draft picks is just reshuffling the deck chairs AFAIC. We need to build a full team, not just a roster loaded at the top and I don't see that happening without draft picks even if we only use them for trades every season.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'd love to have Mikal back but that's probably not the way to go, it would just be a retool doomed to fail IMO. We really have to rebuild, we have to recoup a full slate of future draft picks. Any big move we make that doesn't address our lack of draft picks is just reshuffling the deck chairs AFAIC. We need to build a full team, not just a roster loaded at the top and I don't see that happening without draft picks even if we only use them for trades every season.

Especially because a Booker/Mikal duo wouldn’t even come close to giving us a roster loaded up top. Those guys are second and third tier stars, who are already in their prime, neither are leaders.

That duo and the money needed to keep them together would have us a perennial 20-30 win club, still with no draft picks to get better.

 

[Mainstreet]

we're beyond screwed - can't lean into it - but i was thinking last night and there's usually a team that limps into the playoffs that struggled all year and got hot right when it mattered

ive been watching the same basketball as yall - it's bad with no signs of improvement - it's the same couple few problems that surface night in night out - turnovers rebounds and going inexplicably cold from 3 - problem is they tend to coincide at the same time - we simply collapse

but (and you knew the but was coming) we did start out hot and we've looked better than decent at times - making it all the more infuriating - but we're a completely different team than what we started with

tyus can dribble it down court but we're at our best when we move the ball effectively as a team - but this requires 5 different suns to all take care of the ball at the same time - which never happens

they attack our passing lanes they go on fast breaks and we fall apart - time and time again so when are we going to start anticipating the blitz? when will we fake the dangerous pass and start cutting to the basket?

and rebounds - the one thing bud feels he can control (and bench players for) - why can't we go bigger at power forward more often? oso and bol bol can do this - if we don't have a "true" point guard on the floor wth not?

moral of the story is we are capable - idc what anyone says - and we haven't played anywhere near our best basketball yet - especially with richards still finding his way

i give the suns about a 25% chance of limping into the play-in as we stand heading into all star weekend - i only give us about a 10% chance of catching fire at the perfect time - ok maybe 5%

I don't think the Suns are the team that limps into the playoffs. Really hope I'm wrong.

When I look at a team like the Mavericks, I see a team that should be in a state of collapse, yet they keep on winning. This is when I start to look at coaching.

Could the Suns have hired the wrong coach? Yes, absolutely. There is no rule where a team can't make two mistakes in a row.
Or perhaps Frank Vogel wasn't the problem. He coached the Suns to a 6th place finish in the West last season.

Make no mistake about it, though. There is something wrong with the Suns and the whole team needs to be rethought from the GM on down, especially the GM.

 

[GatorAZ]

better stop that - you're gonna go blind

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Ignore me now cause I’m going hard on the trade machine for the next few months..

 

[Ronin]

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[Hoop Head]

I have concluded that Mike Budenholzer is the wrong coach for Devin Booker and probably should never have been hired. Why not? Simple: Because he misused Booker by unwisely trying to turn him into a three-point shooter. He helped cripple the team by discouraging Booker from being the midrange shot expert that he is, and encouraging Bookerv to be the long-range bomber that he isn't.

I'm not sure how much it was Frank Vogel's fault, if at all, that his players ignored him. But players can't be fired.

And how many Suns games have you watched to come to this conclusion? Booker looks the same as he did last year. He averages just 1.5 more 3pt attempts. So even going by stats, he hasn't changed much at all. He averaged over 6 attempts last year and over 7 this year. He's taking almost 2 less 2pt FG's a game though so it evens out.

 

[BirdGangThing]

I have concluded that Mike Budenholzer is the wrong coach for Devin Booker and probably should never have been hired. Why not? Simple: Because he misused Booker by unwisely trying to turn him into a three-point shooter. He helped cripple the team by discouraging Booker from being the midrange shot expert that he is, and encouraging Bookerv to be the long-range bomber that he isn't.

I'm not sure how much it was Frank Vogel's fault, if at all, that his players ignored him. But players can't be fired.

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[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

No. Desperate flailing for a “superstar” is how we got ourselves into this mess.

Booker is not any of those guys, but neither is Tatum, neither is Mitchell.

We needed patience. Not gutting one of the best teams over the previous few years for a 35 year old cancer because he was supposedly a “number one guy”.

I really hate the obsession with “number one” “number two” guy nonsense. Build a good team with talented players who compliment each other.

Sure, like 4 teams have a mega superstar and it makes a clear pecking order. But if you are going to continually either tank for stars or gut your team for them you’re probably going to be terrible.

If Tatum were stuck on a stupid team like the kings (or us) he’d be viewed as a tweener who can’t get over the hump.

I think you’re underselling Tatum by a good bit.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

we're beyond screwed - can't lean into it - but i was thinking last night and there's usually a team that limps into the playoffs that struggled all year and got hot right when it mattered

ive been watching the same basketball as yall - it's bad with no signs of improvement - it's the same couple few problems that surface night in night out - turnovers rebounds and going inexplicably cold from 3 - problem is they tend to coincide at the same time - we simply collapse

but (and you knew the but was coming) we did start out hot and we've looked better than decent at times - making it all the more infuriating - but we're a completely different team than what we started with

tyus can dribble it down court but we're at our best when we move the ball effectively as a team - but this requires 5 different suns to all take care of the ball at the same time - which never happens

they attack our passing lanes they go on fast breaks and we fall apart - time and time again so when are we going to start anticipating the blitz? when will we fake the dangerous pass and start cutting to the basket?

and rebounds - the one thing bud feels he can control (and bench players for) - why can't we go bigger at power forward more often? oso and bol bol can do this - if we don't have a "true" point guard on the floor wth not?

moral of the story is we are capable - idc what anyone says - and we haven't played anywhere near our best basketball yet - especially with richards still finding his way

i give the suns about a 25% chance of limping into the play-in as we stand heading into all star weekend - i only give us about a 10% chance of catching fire at the perfect time - ok maybe 5%

The issue with oso is that you can’t play him alongside a true center because of spacing. None of oso, plumlee or Richard’s. An shoot a lick so you can’t have two on the floor at the same time. Bol bol is the only viable alternative with height.

 

[BirdGangThing]

we have what? 26 games left? and we didn't get better - we shipped nurk out but we didn't get better - golden state got better - dallas did too but i think all 3 of their bigs are hurt - spurs got better and may leapfrog right past us

are the kings going tank mode? do they have their draft pick? because that's probably our best chance of making the play-in

gd this is so depressing

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[BirdGangThing]

The issue with oso is that you can’t play him alongside a true center because of spacing. None of oso, plumlee or Richard’s. An shoot a lick so you can’t have two on the floor at the same time. Bol bol is the only viable alternative with height.

nah

 

[leclerc]

We are not catching the Warriors and the Spurs might give us problems with Fox. I think we have a chance to go top 12.

 

[Superbone]

We are not catching the Warriors and the Spurs might give us problems with Fox. I think we have a chance to go top 12.

In the draft?

 

[GatorAZ]

A Wemby-Fox-KD big-3 is intriguing for San Antonio. Add in two 1st rd picks and I’d do it for Vassell.
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[hcsilla]

Don't we have already 2 similar SG's? Why add a 3rd one?

 

[Germz249]

We are not catching the Warriors and the Spurs might give us problems with Fox. I think we have a chance to go top 12.

Lets hope they pull it together..

At least we can be top 15 in the west.. thats a plus right?

 

[Suns_fan69]

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[BirdGangThing]

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f'n hilarious

 

[Mainstreet]

I think a one-on-one basketball tourney fits Kevin Durant perfectly, since he already plays that way now.

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[BirdGangThing]

I think a one-on-one basketball tourney fits Kevin Durant perfectly, since he already plays that way now.

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he's a two time finals mvp - wth is going on in here with the kd hate - the trade was a bad trade but this doesn't make kd a bad player because he isn't - he isn't a bad teammate either which is why golden state (among others) wanted him back - i think this borderline blasphemy is more about frustration and kd (our only all star) unjustly being blamed for this abysmal season - who's having another healthy (knock on wood) phenomenal season

if we're upset because kd didn't go along with the trade then again - it's on ish(bia) and jj - plus it means kd thinks it can actually work here - he's not bradley beal coasting to the paycheck - kd plays basketball night in night out

im not coming at you specifically main - im not even coming at you - but as far as performance goes kd is the only one earning his money - even when his game is off he gets his while playing defense while rebounding

i can't stand the stupid passes but his work as a whole is still sensational - we don't have any draft picks - imagine watching this season without kd