Suns #3 FA destination

[Mainstreet]

You are completely missing the point. This thread was not about finding diamonds in the rough. This thread was about comparing Phoenix to other cities in the running for tier 1 free agents. If Phoenix was the only one that thought Nash was a tier 1 free agent...who exactly where they competing against and how is that a good example?

It seems the argument your making is that perception must be reality.

 

[Covert Rain]

It seems the argument your making is that perception must be reality.

I think you don't understand the point. This thread was not about perceptions or finding diamonds in the rough or being smarter then other teams. If that was the case I would agree with you. I never questioned the results of the signing.

We are looking for examples where teams who were competing for Tier 1 free agents, had that player chose Phoenix over another team. I am not sure why you don't get that. Teams who think a player is a Tier 1 free agent for example are going to pursue that player much differently then someone they feel is not. If Phoenix was the only team pursuing Nash like a Tier 1 free agent that is not a good example.

Did you forget that after the Nash signing the majority of the league thought the Suns overpaid for Nash? Meaning very few teams felt Nash was a tier 1 free agent. Meaning teams were not pursing Nash like a Tier 1 free agent. Meaning it's a poor example because nobody but he Suns were pursing Nash like a Tier 1 free agent. Yes, the Suns were smarter then the rest of those teams but that is not the point of this discussion.

 

[Duke of Oysters]

It's tough to find any tier 1 superstar that joined a new team let alone joined the Suns. Shaq is the only one that comes to my mind.

Do Grant Hill and McGrady (when they joined the Orlando Magic) count? Pippen when he joined Houston?

 

[Mainstreet]

I think you don't understand the point. This thread was not about perceptions or finding diamonds in the rough or being smarter then other teams. If that was the case I would agree with you.

We are looking for examples where teams who were competing for Tier 1 free agents, had that player chose Phoenix over another team. I am not sure why you don't get that. Teams who think a player is a Tier 1 free agent for example are going to pursue that player much differently then someone they feel is not. If Phoenix was the only team pursuing Nash like a Tier 1 free agent that is not a good example.

I get it, I just don't agree with the philosophy that Tier 1 FAs are necessarily defined by demand by other teams. There are players that do not get the recognition and may actually be better than so called Tier 1 players. Nash and Grant him are good examples when they arrived in Phoenix.

 

[Covert Rain]

I get it, I just don't agree with the philosophy that Tier 1 FAs are necessarily defined by demand by other teams. There are players that do not get the recognition and may actually be better than so called Tier 1 players. Nash and Grant him are good examples when they arrived in Phoenix.

I completely agree with you on that point. However, for the sake of this discussion I was curious to see if Phoenix was ever chosen by a tier 1 free agent when all things being equal (teams were competing for the same player because they thought that player was a tier 1 FA).

Some others on this thread have made a great point. How often does that happen at all? In the NBA today, if you don't draft a tier 1 player or trade for a tier 1 player you probably wont' get one. There are only a couple "true destination" cities in my mind that can lure a Tier 1 free agent from the team that drafted them and Phoenix is not one of them.

That's why I don't hang my hat on our good weather city and being a Tier 2 free agent destination city. The Suns have to be an organization that makes moves and gets player they want and not a team that sits back and hopes that our good weather and reputation will lure someone here. Especially, when our reputation is eroding fast.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I just read about Wade this morning in the Miami paper. They said Heat officials are trying to get Wade to extend. There is no guarantee that he will even consider it. It's likely he will give the team ne more year to see how the kids progress and if they have any chips on that team that can be of real help going forward.

That doesn't mean he is coming here. But if the money is right and he wants do something new who knows? Thats a pipe dream I guess.

The Suns can still get by on their long-standing reputation as a well run franchise, for now. In another few years, that will no longer be the case. The fundamentals of the roster now are worse than at any time since the drug scandal. And even then, they had Nance, draft picks, and Jerry Colangelo. Unless they can figure out a way to trade Stoudemire for something of real value -- and those doors seem to be closing daily -- they're in for a dark period indeed.

I agree with this.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

It's tough to find any tier 1 superstar that joined a new team let alone joined the Suns. Shaq is the only one that comes to my mind.

Do Grant Hill and McGrady (when they joined the Orlando Magic) count? Pippen when he joined Houston?

Exactly. Most "tier 1" free agents like you like to call them (which their are probably only 10 of in the league by the way) just don't trade teams period.

The Shaq move is the exception to the rule. Odds are guys like wade and Lebron will stay in their respective cities anyway.

I am more looking at it from FA prospects as a whole. Not just guys like Lebron or Wade, but maybe Bosh or even guys that are well thought of around the league and Suns have to out bid a little.

I just think to alot of guys this is an attractive place for many reason provided the money and role is right.

Now if things get alot worse and we are down for 4-5 years then thats quite another thing. But right now we are still seen as a highly attractive option ith recent winning in the past to the majority of guys. More so then an Atlanta, Houston, Golden State, Clippers even Denver and Dallas. We just have more going for us then those other teams.

 

[Covert Rain]

Even for tier 2 Free Agents...where is the line waiting to sign with the Suns? I think we are placing the Suns up on a pedestal we no longer deserve to be on. Yes, we are not the Sacramento Kings but FA (if teams have the money) will probably look to the elite before they look at us. I hope that is not true but I think it is. Any high impact guys will have to come via trade IMO.

 

[SunsTzu]

Those players you listed are older minimum guys who only priortize teams that they think are going to get a ring. All of those guys went somewhere they thought were better chances to win then Phoenix. And for all of those instances Grant Hill came here and he has been the best of all those guys. Those aren't what I would call your "typical" free agents who are playing the market and looking to get big deals.

Fine then. John Salmons, young player the Suns were really high on seemed they had him and he left them at the 11th hour.

I'm not saying the Suns are as bad as Memphis or Minni but I don't see them attracting any all-star calibur players unless they offer the player much more than any other team like what they did with Nash.

 

[Mainstreet]

Fine then. John Salmons, young player the Suns were really high on seemed they had him and he left them at the 11th hour.

Phoenix and Toronto were in a bit of a tug of war to sign John Salmons when, as I recall, he listened to a higher source and signed with the Kings. I don't think John Salmons is a good example.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

This thread is making Phoenix a less desirable FA destination...

 

[elindholm]

Nash had been an All-Star for two of the three years prior to his move (back) to Phoenix. I don't know what "Tier 1" is supposed to mean, but if a guy's an All-Star more often than not, that seems good. I think it's pretty easy to argue that he was at least a top-25 player.

 

[Covert Rain]

Nash had been an All-Star for two of the three years prior to his move (back) to Phoenix. I don't know what "Tier 1" is supposed to mean, but if a guy's an All-Star more often than not, that seems good. I think it's pretty easy to argue that he was at least a top-25 player.

Nash had 2 All-star appearances but never as a Starter. Maybe Tier 1 is not a good description. Nash was not considered a "franchise" player and the consensus was he was not worth the money the Suns were paying him. There were several articles about how the Suns overpaid for him. Those teams look stupid now but still not a good example because the Suns were competing with themselves at the time. Also, all things were not equal because even if you factor in what Dallas was offering Nash, the contracts were not even close.

Getting a franchise type FA going to another team just doesn't happen that much in the NBA. When it does, it's usually a big market team (which is what I consider a destination city). Some big stars have forced sign and trades (which is basically the same thing as signing with another team). When is the last time a Wade or Lebron caliber player signed with the Suns or forced a sign and trade to the Suns? That's why I don't get the entire "we are a destination city". I don't think we are. Unless your counting veteran FA at the end of their careers....I don't see it.

This team needs to make moves via trades and the draft. If the Suns hang their hat on being a "destination city" we will forever be in the lottery. Like I said above, there are only a few "true" destination cities IMO.