Suns @ 76ers Saturday game thread, 11-4-2023

[nashman]

Nurk is better for this team especially lacking a CP3 type of. He distributes and looks for others, he creates and has superior passing ability compared to DA! Then you have Drew off the bench for energy and rebounding and dunks etc. today perfect example DA had 6 points 0 assists, Nurk also 6 points but 7 assists! Nurk is a more unselfish veteran that is willing to pass the ball not try to pad his own stats. Nurk, Allen, Little is not a bad deal fo DA since he drove his own value down with his poor play and attitude. The team is better off without his negativity and unreliable effort.

 

[Hoop Head]

Altering shots doesn’t show up in regular stat lines. Like Ayton or not he did this in spades which I think is another reason he is a superior defender. Having said that Nurkic might be good enough and add that with his ability to pass he might still be the better fit. It’s too early to judge anything IMO.

Altered shots would show up in opponent FG% which I looked at and Ayton and Nurkic are virtually the same in that regard. There's less than 1% point separating them.

I think Ayton was a more effective defender in the year of the finals run because he was a lesser known commodity. He is physically imposing and moves very well for his size but as teams got to see more of him they learned he was all style and no substance. That is also why I believe his defensive rating went down as the years went on. I know he checked out mentally quite a bit but that was something he always did, even in his best season. So I think it was more of a case of the scouting report becoming known. It's like he's an actor trying to play a role of someone who looks like he's doing the right thing but he never actually fully exerted himself and tried swatting a ball into the stands or getting up in a player's jersey on defense where they can't get a shot.

 

[Covert Rain]

Altered shots would show up in opponent FG% which I looked at and Ayton and Nurkic are virtually the same in that regard. There's less than 1% point separating them.

I think Ayton was a more effective defender in the year of the finals run because he was a lesser known commodity. He is physically imposing and moves very well for his size but as teams got to see more of him they learned he was all style and no substance. That is also why I believe his defensive rating went down as the years went on. I know he checked out mentally quite a bit but that was something he always did, even in his best season. So I think it was more of a case of the scouting report becoming known. It's like he's an actor trying to play a role of someone who looks like he's doing the right thing but he never actually fully exerted himself and tried swatting a ball into the stands or getting up in a player's jersey on defense where they can't get a shot.

Altering shots includes passing out of a shot and it also includes disrupting offensive sets (dribbling away after driving). You are not going to see that in opponent FG% directly impacted by Ayton or Nurkic.

 

[Mainstreet]

Altered shots would show up in opponent FG% which I looked at and Ayton and Nurkic are virtually the same in that regard. There's less than 1% point separating them.

I think Ayton was a more effective defender in the year of the finals run because he was a lesser known commodity. He is physically imposing and moves very well for his size but as teams got to see more of him they learned he was all style and no substance. That is also why I believe his defensive rating went down as the years went on. I know he checked out mentally quite a bit but that was something he always did, even in his best season. So I think it was more of a case of the scouting report becoming known. It's like he's an actor trying to play a role of someone who looks like he's doing the right thing but he never actually fully exerted himself and tried swatting a ball into the stands or getting up in a player's jersey on defense where they can't get a shot.

This is an interesting theory about Ayton's defense.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Altering shots includes passing out of a shot and it also includes disrupting offensive sets (dribbling away after driving). You are not going to see that in opponent FG% directly impacted by Ayton or Nurkic.

You excuse that you might not see this in opponent FG%, but a lot of us didn’t see that on the court either. It’s easy to say Ayton altered shots… with no statistical evidence to support it. I was always amazed at how easily players, 6 to 12 inches shorter than Ayton, would go right at him and score with ease outside of the finals run.

 

[Mainstreet]

Altering shots includes passing out of a shot and it also includes disrupting offensive sets (dribbling away after driving). You are not going to see that in opponent FG% directly impacted by Ayton or Nurkic.

At least Nurkic has a reason, injuries.

There is no physical reason why Ayton shouldn't alter or deter shots.

 

[Covert Rain]

You excuse that you might not see this in opponent FG%, but a lot of us didn’t see that on the court either. It’s easy to say Ayton altered shots… with no statistical evidence to support it. I was always amazed at how easily players, 6 to 12 inches shorter than Ayton, would go right at him and score with ease outside of the finals run.

I don’t know what you were watching but he did. He also showed up measurably in the stats. Go back and look at stats I posted over and over with him vs without him on the court. I am not defending Ayton’s shortcomings but he did have a measurable defensive presence or value on the court. Nurkic might be a better overall fit but to me the jury is still out after a handful of games.

 

[Covert Rain]

At least Nurkic has a reason, injuries.

There is no physical reason why Ayton shouldn't alter or deter shots.

100%. I am not defending Ayton’s lack of perceived effort, focus or his basketball IQ.

 

[Mainstreet]

100%. I am not defending Ayton’s lack of perceived effort, focus or his basketball IQ.

I understand. I think most players with Ayton's talent and size would be stars.

 

[Covert Rain]

I understand. I think most players with Ayton's talent and size would be stars.

Ayton should have been a franchise foundational player at that pick. He was a huge let down here. As much as I hate Luka and think he is one of the biggest cry babies in the league? We should have picked him.

 

[Superbone]

I understand. I think most players with Ayton's talent and size would be stars.

I think Ayton has the body and skills to be a Giannis type player. Unfortunately, he has the brains of a mouse, the drive of a scooter, and the desire for contact of a sheep. He doesn't like to dunk or enforce his will on others. Man, if only we could have put Amare's brain in Ayton's body. That would have been something else!

 

[Superbone]

Ayton should have been a franchise foundational player at that pick. He was a huge let down here. As much as I hate Luka and think he is one of the biggest cry babies in the league? We should have picked him.

And if we weren't going to pick him for some reason, it probably should have been JJJ.

 

[95pro]

Here we go with the Ayton again, save the hAyton for the Ayton thread LOL