Suns acquire Nick Richards from Charlotte for Okogie & three 2nd rd picks

Covert Rain

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I'd like to keep Allen, but it all depends on who is available in trade. Let's fix this team while we are at it, providing it can be fixed.

The Suns still need more help at the 4/5.
We both agree they need more help at FC but I don't think you can do that and sacrifice your 3 point shooting in the process. I would love to get more FC help. He would have to be really really good and likely need to be able to shoot the 3 really well as well.
 

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Agreed. He needs some major work. His offensive gills are UGLY away from the rim.
Starts with getting that floater release point higher and hitting free throws. He's such a good passer from the short roll that getting that floater to be automatic would improve his impact on the offense pretty dramatically. Yes, i'd love if he'd develop a reliable outside jumper, but that seems like a bridge way too far right now.
 

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I'd like to keep Allen, but it all depends on who is available in trade. Let's fix this team while we are at it, providing it can be fixed.

The Suns still need more help at the 4/5.
it can't be fixed - because a large part of the problem is the mid 3.
 

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We both agree they need more help at FC but I don't think you can do that and sacrifice your 3 point shooting in the process. I would love to get more FC help. He would have to be really really good and likely need to be able to shoot the 3 really well as well.

There is no significant disagreement other than I prioritize the front court need as greater.
 

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We both agree they need more help at FC but I don't think you can do that and sacrifice your 3 point shooting in the process. I would love to get more FC help. He would have to be really really good and likely need to be able to shoot the 3 really well as well.
Here's the thing - as long as we are stuck with Beal, him and Book are going to get the majority of the playing time at shooting guard.

I don't really want to trade Grayson either, but he and Royce are the only movable assets - and Grayson is more easily replaced with our glut of guards.
 

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Hope he brings a spark plug to the def we shall see I like the move btw :)))

420 monster cookies to richards being a suns for a while :)
 

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Well I am curious how much difference this guy will make. God knows we need someone with some rim protection and rebounding ability.

Nick Richards has to help.

In the Hawks game, the Suns interior defense was so bad, they were allowing Hawks players to penetrate almost to the basket. Of course, by then, it's too late.
 

Covert Rain

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Here's the thing - as long as we are stuck with Beal, him and Book are going to get the majority of the playing time at shooting guard.

I don't really want to trade Grayson either, but he and Royce are the only movable assets - and Grayson is more easily replaced with our glut of guards.
That's just it. I don't think he is easily replaceable. Remember before we got him the Suns were scouring the NBA to try and find a 3 point shooter as good as he was that was acquirable. It's easy to say you can get another but the reality is it's not that easy.

Now if we could move him for a starting PF, move another piece and get another dependable 3 point shooter OK. I don't think the Suns have enough assets to get both a starting PF and a dependable 3 point shooter. We just witnessed Okogie costing the Suns 3 2nd rounders (even though we got one back). Just because we have moveable assets doesn't mean we should move them.
 
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AzStevenCal

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Nick Richards has to help.

In the Hawks game, the Suns interior defense was so bad, they were allowing Hawks players to penetrate almost to the basket. Of course, by then, it's too late.

And he will. He won't fix all our big man problems but he's better than what we have. I've just never thought his value quite matched his stats and at 27 that's not likely to change.
 

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That's just it. I don't think he is easily replaceable. Remember before we got him the Suns were scouring the NBA to try and find a 3 point shooter as good as he was that was acquirable. It's easy to say you can get another but the reality is it's not that easy.

Now if we could move him for a starting PF, move another piece and get another dependable 3 point shooter OK. I don't think the Suns have enough assets to get both a starting PF and a dependable 3 point shooter. We just witnessed Okogie costing the Suns 3 2nd rounders (even though we got one back). Just because we have moveable assets doesn't mean we should move them.

Players like Tyus Jones and Monte Morris can shoot the three.

Also, Collin Gillespie can as well, but I haven't seen him play since he returned from injury.
 

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And he will. He won't fix all our big man problems but he's better than what we have. I've just never thought his value quite matched his stats and at 27 that's not likely to change.
This is fair. He isn't going to turn into a top 10 center all of the sudden. The hope is that he shores up enough of the FC that allows the team a more balanced approach on both ends of the floor. If he can somehow do that and do that competently? I don't see how this team isn't better.

On the flip-side, if his acquisition does nothing? Maybe this paints a clearer picture to the FO this isn't going to work.
 

Mainstreet

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And he will. He won't fix all our big man problems but he's better than what we have. I've just never thought his value quite matched his stats and at 27 that's not likely to change.

The Suns have never needed much from a center other than plug the middle, rebound and provide an inside presence.

That's the irony.

A player like him might have helped the Suns win the Finals against the Bucks.

Phoenix already has their three stars.
 

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It's sad to see Okogie leave, he seemed to have improved 3pt % this season. He was huge 2 years ago, but fell out of rotation last season as coach was giving all the time to Goodwin, Yuta, and the other guy. He can still be an useful rotation player in NBA on the right roster, all hustle and smart.
Next, I guess Nurk is good for garbage for garbage trades with other teams, maybe Nurk for Hachimura who is redundant now and LA needs a big body to back up AD. Or to Spurs for Collins, etc.
 
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Covert Rain

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The Suns have never needed much from a center other than plug the middle, rebound and provide an inside presence.

That's the irony.

A player like him might have helped the Suns win the Finals against the Bucks.

Phoenix already has their three stars.
Suns had bigger problems. Mentally that team was weak. That somehow got worse by the playoffs the next season. That was also a factor though.
 

AzStevenCal

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The Suns have never needed much from a center other than plug the middle, rebound and provide an inside presence.

That's the irony.

A player like him might have helped the Suns win the Finals against the Bucks.

Phoenix already has their three stars.
Yeah I think he could have made a huge difference in that Milwaukee series. But I don't think this team is a mid-tier center away from contention so I don't know how much he'll help us. He'll make us better at our weakest position and along with Devin playing more to form, that should help us move up the playoff ladder. And I'm very much in favor of it as long as it doesn't tempt the Front Office into pushing our last few chips into the pot.
 

Covert Rain

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The Suns have never needed much from a center other than plug the middle, rebound and provide an inside presence.

That's the irony.

A player like him might have helped the Suns win the Finals against the Bucks.

Phoenix already has their three stars.
By the way, I heard an interview not too long ago one of the journalists was saying that the Suns reputation for folding under adversity dates back to that playoff run. He said it's kind of known around the league that if you can get the Suns mentally down they can be beat. So, that's not a recent view of the Suns. It's sort of been the view since that finals appearance.
 

Mainstreet

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Suns had bigger problems. Mentally that team was weak. That somehow got worse by the playoffs the next season. That was also a factor though.

I think the Suns Finals team was plenty tough. However, Saric going down really hurt.

The Suns frontline already needed more size and athleticism before the playoffs ever started.

They had no one to defend Giannis one-on-one other Ayton.
 

Covert Rain

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I think the Suns Finals team was plenty tough. However, Saric going down really hurt.

The Suns frontline already needed more size and athleticism before the playoffs ever started.

They had no one to defend Giannis one-on-one other Ayton.
That was a legit factor but that doesn't explain the complete fold. No team should fold that completely after the lead they had. There is a reason that only happens to a few teams in history. Even since that time, that reputation hasn't gone away.
 

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Yeah I think he could have made a huge difference in that Milwaukee series. But I don't think this team is a mid-tier center away from contention so I don't know how much he'll help us. He'll make us better at our weakest position and along with Devin playing more to form, that should help us move up the playoff ladder. And I'm very much in favor of it as long as it doesn't tempt the Front Office into pushing our last few chips into the pot.

The way I look at it, the Suns were trying to carry water in a bucket with a hole in it.

We will have to see how it plays out, but I think the bucket has been patched. They will still need another interior presence, though.

My more serious concern is more about the effort and chemistry of the players already on the team. They should have been playing much better. There is something seriously wrong with the overall effort of the team.
 

Covert Rain

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The way I look at it, the Suns were trying to carry water in a bucket with a hole in it.

We will have to see how it plays out, but I think the bucket has been patched. They will still need another interior presence, though.

My more serious concern is more about the effort and chemistry of the players already on the team. They should have been playing much better. There is something seriously wrong with the overall effort of the team.
The team had supporting cast A and Coach A. Replace said supporting cast and replaced coach. Now have tweaked even more. What is the common denominator here? I think you nailed it. Chemistry. That's why I don't want to see them get Butler. That's why I don't want to see them trade Allen. I am not for giving away anymore major assets just for another patch.

If this team somehow pulls off a sneaky trade (they have done it before) that's one thing. This is far as I want to see them take this.
 

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The team had supporting cast A and Coach A. Replace said supporting cast and replaced coach. Now have tweaked even more. What is the common denominator here? I think you nailed it. Chemistry. That's why I don't want to see them get Butler. That's why I don't want to see them trade Allen. I am not for giving away anymore major assets just for another patch.

If this team somehow pulls off a sneaky trade (they have done it before) that's one thing. This is far as I want to see them take this.

For me, Allen has disappointed this season. It started when he came into camp out of game shape.

I always respected his toughness, but I'm not seeing it much anymore. Bottom line, he is not a player I would fall on a sword to keep.
 
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