Suns at Bulls 11:00 FSN AZ

[nowagimp]

How did this become a Marion haters/defenders thread? The question was whether or not Marion is elite. To me he's not, simply because MY definition of elite is the top 10 players in the league.

Well if we can each have our own definitions, there will be no such thing as elite in a general sense.

So who(only 10) is elite then

1) KG
2) Dwight Howard
3) DWade
4) kobe
5) lebron
6) Tim Duncan
7) Amare Stoudemire
8) Steve Nash
9) chris paul
10) Carlos Boozer


Looks like we missed alot of elite guys there, I dont know.


No Dirk, no baron Davis, only one spur, no pistons, one celtic, no AI, no Melo, no DWil, no Bosh, no Gil arenas. Such a narrow definition is terribly subjective as these other players are just as skilled as some of the 10 "elites".

MY definition of elite has to do with the talent to seriously impact winning in the NBA, its not just about ppg or rpg. For example, in the days of the pistons and bulls, rodman was an elite player because of rebounding and defense even though he was a poor scorer. Dikembe Mutombo was also elite in his prime, but a poor "go to" guy. Shawn Marion has been on a western conference finalist with and without amare. I seriously doubt the suns would have been there without marion or Nash those two times. I actually consider amare a "borderline elite player" because his man puts up such good numbers it tends to partially negate amares impact as an outstanding offensive player. (I do expect amare to get stronger and more healthy and play tougher inside as he continues to heal, and I support his efforts).


Hey if elite means "wins a championship" take lebron, dwight, carlos and KG off the list, they havent done it and they had the chance. So perhaps elite could mean just DWade Kobe and Tim Duncan.

 

[SO91]

I shouldn't have made that post without some clarification. I think Marion is a terrific player, and I wouldn't put myself in the 'hater' category by any means. I just don't think there are many elite players in the league. We may never agree with it, but for me that term is reserved for the top tier of NBA talent. For what it's worth i don't think Amare is elite either. Very good, great at times, just not elite in my book.

 

[nowagimp]

I shouldn't have made that post without some clarification. I think Marion is a terrific player, and I wouldn't put myself in the 'hater' category by any means. I just don't think there are many elite players in the league. We may never agree with it, but for me that term is reserved for the top tier of NBA talent. For what it's worth i don't think Amare is elite either. Very good, great at times, just not elite in my book.

Elite players(top ten?) are over rated, as its a team game. The pistons won a championship(and the Mavs should have, minus the circus refs) without elite players and KG, lebron have no rings. Frankly I'd rather have 3 very good players than one elite player. The heat suck with their elite player, one of the worst teams in the league. I dont think that a top 10 player is needed to win it all, it may be an impediment to many teams to have an elite player.

For me a 5 time all star is an elite player. In some cases, its especially true if the player was not a fan vote in, but a coach selection.

 

[SO91]

I dont think that a top 10 player is needed to win it all, it may be an impediment to many teams to have an elite player.

On this we can certainly agree on.

 

[mojorizen7]

I'm not a Marion hater. For the record.
I'm just of the opinion that his skills aren't those of the atypical "3rd major piece" of a championship caliber team puzzle. Neither was Ced.
Sheesh.

 

[nashman]

I would think Marion and his 19/10 career average is more than fine for a 3rd peice of a championship team

 

[mojorizen7]

I would think Marion and his 19/10 career average is more than fine for a 3rd peice of a championship team

You would think so by looking at the numbers.
Unfortunately, he can't create his own shot in the half-court set(which is a killer in the post-season),he can't post up anyone(including 6' guards), and his jump-shot is erratic. Those flaws are well-hidden during the 82 game stretch of fast break basketball.

 

[green machine]

I'm not a Marion hater. For the record.
I'm just of the opinion that his skills aren't those of the atypical "3rd major piece" of a championship caliber team puzzle. Neither was Ced.
Sheesh.

I am.

 

[nashman]

That 82 game stretch of basketball could be considered a very important part of even getting to the finals! So if a guy kicks ass all season he doesn't play a big part of the success huh?

 

[Covert Rain]

I'm not a Marion hater. For the record.
I'm just of the opinion that his skills aren't those of the atypical "3rd major piece" of a championship caliber team puzzle. Neither was Ced.
Sheesh.

Ced and Marion can't even be compared. Marion is a much better player then Ced. Ced didn't even become a decent shooter until he played for the Lakers.

I would agree that Marion's skills are not atypical but he could definitely put a team over the top that is close if they are missing athleticism, rebounding and defense. Not to mention that Marion's numbers at small forward are sick compared to other SF when including things besides scoring.