Suns at Knicks, 11a.m. 12-20-14

[AzStevenCal]

Looks like everyone looked off Plumlee today. He was open or had good positioning a few times.

A good number of our wasted possessions this season revolve around trying to get Plumlee some baskets. We'd be better off and he'd be better off if he was told to focus just on rebounding and the boards and forget trying to turn him into a weapon.

Steve

 

[Superbone]

Tucker played GREAT defense on Carmelo. That's all the MSG broadcast could talk about. Also, Bledsoe atoned for his first half play in the second half.

 

[BC867]

They won 48 games last year with the very same 2 centers and the total package is a hell of a lot better this year with Len's improvement. They're also playing quite a few more minutes so the PF's don't have to play center.

Huh? Just this week, Hornacek closed games with Tucker at Center and Green at Power Forward.

Is there any professional basketball team in the world (men or women) who play a Small Forward at Center and a Wing at Power Forward with the game on the line? Or even during garbage time, for that matter?

 

[AzStevenCal]

Tucker played GREAT defense on Carmelo. That's all the MSG broadcast could talk about. Also, Bledsoe atoned for his first half play in the second half.

I agree but I think it's kind of funny that his best defense on Melo came because he and Markieff(?) screwed up and both switched to somebody else leaving Melo wide open. And Carmie bricked the shot. Loved it.

Steve

 

[Sci Fi]

Huh? Just this week, Hornacek closed games with Tucker at Center and Green at Power Forward.

Is there any professional basketball team in the world (men or women) who play a Small Forward at Center and a Wing at Power Forward with the game on the line? Or even during garbage time, for that matter?

Here's the data for you.

This year the Suns centers are playing an average of 40.7 minutes per game versus 28.4 last year. They are scoring at an average of 12.5 per game versus 15.1 last year. The effiiciency this year has increased. The TS% is 55.9 versus 52.1. Rebounds per 48 minutes are down at 12.3 versus 15.0. Blocks are up slightly at 2.3 per 48 minutes versus 2.2.

So overall the rebounding is worse per minutes, blocks are a wash and the scoring is less but at much greater efficiency. The rebounding reduction is almost all on Plumlee as Len is almost the same per minute. The total rebounding loss is definitely a net negative. I'm happy with the scoring. I'll take the much greater efficiency over marginally better total scoring. The blocks would suggest similar levels of defense but I'd suggest the net defensive from this position is better as Len doesn't need to block shots like Plumlee to be effective. His length alone is often sufficient.

So on a per minute basis the net effect isn't hugely different from this year compared to last. I'd argue the net production per minute is better this year since Len's percentage of the minutes is far greater and his effect on games is not always statistically measured. I think a case could be made for either year per minute but the fact that an extra 12.3 minutes per game are being played by a true center CLEARLY shows that the problems of the team this year are not at the center position. The Suns are getting 30% more minutes from the center at at least the same production.

Now one could argue the center position needs improved (I'd agree) but it's not the cause of this years decline. It's actually been better. There is only one major change in the team this year that could explain the lackluster performance of the team. The ball has been taken out of the hands of an All-NBA player and turned over to one that is only slightly above average. It's really that simple.

Edit: Steals are up this year by the centers about 40% and turnovers are down but I didn't calculate exact numbers.

 

[Cheesebeef]

This team is meaningless. We are exactly what we've been since 2011... Completely inconsequential, with some questionable contracts and no stud to build around for the future. That sucks

 

[Sci Fi]

This team is meaningless. We are exactly what we've been since 2011... Completely inconsequential, with some questionable contracts and no stud to build around for the future. That sucks

You're so wrong.

 

[sunsfan88]

These wins are what will keep us from getting a top 10 pick. #10-#14 it is for yet ANOTHER season in which only one of the rookies & sophomores got legitmate playing time.

 

[95pro]

games like this just shows we need to move people and make a move. enough of making lateral moves. we good but we're not good. we have so many rotational players it makes me sad.

also we can't afford to wait on more draft picks, I have had enough of stock piling picks. From here on out the only pick that matters for us is the number 1 pick but we don't suck enough.

 

[SirStefan32]

You're so wrong.

How is he wrong? Our best four players are an average power forward, and three combo guards who are good, but not great. The best one out of the three made the Ann-NBA third team because he was snubbed of an All-Star appearance. Let's be generous and say Dragic is a legitimate All Star AND an All-NBA third team. So, you have Dragic, two redundant players, no backup PF, and a rather shaky Center rotation. That's a mediocre team, any way you look at it.

 

[SirStefan32]

games like this just shows we need to move people and make a move. enough of making lateral moves. we good but we're not good. we have so many rotational players it makes me sad.

also we can't afford to wait on more draft picks, I have had enough of stock piling picks. From here on out the only pick that matters for us is the number 1 pick but we don't suck enough.

Agreed. What's worse is that we are so loaded with mediocre talent that there is no time to actually develop our youngsters.

 

[BC867]

So on a per minute basis the net effect isn't hugely different from this year compared to last. I'd argue the net production per minute is better this year since Len's percentage of the minutes is far greater and his effect on games is not always statistically measured.

Better doesn't make it good. As witnessed by Horny's repeated hesitancy to use Len or Plumlee with the game on the line.

There is only one major change in the team this year that could explain the lackluster performance of the team. The ball has been taken out of the hands of an All-NBA player and turned over to one that is only slightly above average. It's really that simple.

I am certainly on record in agreement with that (at the risk of being called a Bledsoe hater).

 

[BC867]

Cont'd.

Check this GameFlow attachment showing who finished vs. the Knicks.

Kieff/Tucker/Dragic/Bledsoe/Thomas.

At least Kieff wasn't ejected (he received only one technical this game, for flinging the ball) leaving our other players to move up two positions instead of just one as the game before.

You may believe in our Centers, Sci Fi, but the Coach doesn't.

 

[Cheesebeef]

You're so wrong.

Good counterpoint.

If only we would just put the ball in Dragic's hands like we did last year when Bledsoe was hurt, we'd probably be... Uh, below .500, just like we are now AND just like we were last year when Dragic was "the man."

No young studs... No high draft picks coming to save us... No playoffs = meaningless in any sport I've ever watched.

 

[Cheesebeef]

How is he wrong? Our best four players are an average power forward, and three combo guards who are good, but not great. The best one out of the three made the Ann-NBA third team because he was snubbed of an All-Star appearance. Let's be generous and say Dragic is a legitimate All Star AND an All-NBA third team. So, you have Dragic, two redundant players, no backup PF, and a rather shaky Center rotation. That's a mediocre team, any way you look at it.

And it's being INCREDIBLY generous to call Dragic, who's had one great season, an All-Star/All NBA talent... one season does not lock someone into that status, IMO. Not to mention he's about to turn 30, which means he's not a young stud either.

 

[cly2tw]

This team is meaningless. We are exactly what we've been since 2011... Completely inconsequential, with some questionable contracts and no stud to build around for the future. That sucks

This makes feel sad, now I just restarted following the Suns a bit again after 2011.

 

[BC867]

This makes feel sad, now I just restarted following the Suns a bit again after 2011.

It is sad. Think of those of us who have given our hearts to the Suns -- during good times and bad -- since the '70's.

The owner gave us a glimpse of hope when he went from being a complete butthole to a little less of a butthole (if that is something to be proud of).

Now with his roster of our three best players -- all lead Point Guards -- being played against each other, he is back to being a complete butthole.

I had briefly included Markieff within our four best players, but he and Bledsoe are tied for the most technicals and most ejections in the NBA this season. Neither of them has the intelligence to control themselves and it just keeps getting worse.

Sarver down to Hornacek have created an atmosphere of frustration and lack of teamwork.

It is sad.

 

[AzStevenCal]

It is sad. Think of those of us who have given our hearts to the Suns -- during good times and bad -- since the '70's.

The owner gave us a glimpse of hope when he went from being a complete butthole to a little less of a butthole (if that is something to be proud of).

Now with his roster of our three best players -- all lead Point Guards -- being played against each other, he is back to being a complete butthole.

I had briefly included Markieff within our four best players, but he and Bledsoe are tied for the most technicals and most ejections in the NBA this season. Neither of them has the intelligence to control themselves and it just keeps getting worse.

Sarver down to Hornacek have created an atmosphere of frustration and lack of teamwork.

It is sad.

Really? Did you notice that the only other NBA player with 6 technicals is Tyson Chandler? It has the potential to be a big deal but right now I'm not too concerned. Telfair plays a lot fewer minutes and he's 16th on the list with 4 technicals.

Steve

 

[BC867]

Really? Did you notice that the only other NBA player with 6 technicals is Tyson Chandler? It has the potential to be a big deal but right now I'm not too concerned. Telfair plays a lot fewer minutes and he's 16th on the list with 4 technicals.

Steve

Does it really matter to Suns fans what Tyson Chandler does? Or Sebastion Telfair?

I am concerned that the Suns are leading the league in technicals (if that can be called leading) with two at the top (bottom?) of the list.

Sad to say, a lot of that falls on the Coach.