Suns at Warriors Game Thread

[young tone]

and we could beat them again if they could only get murphy and dunleavy back.

Oh god no I dont want them back...Good win for us, we arent that same old push over warrior team that the league has been knowing us the last 13 years. Good all around win with Ellis having a coming out game and what 15 points in the 4th...Reffin goes both ways, we seen flops but I also seen the Suns get calls their way. All around, I thought it wasnt a bad called game ....

Either way you guys are one of the best in the west so you guys have nothing to be worried about, us on the other hand are climbing out of a bad start, but we're back on track

 

[Suns_fan69]

Suns had 20 turnovers that lead to 37 pts for the Warriors. I'd say 24 of those points were the result of refs not calling fouls on the Warriors. Suns lost by 15.

That assumes that all of the calls against the Warriors were legit and the non calls on the suns were correct as well which I'm not so sure was the case. Azubike (sp?) in particular had 2 or 3 drives near the end which had a lot of contact that went uncalled which helped the Suns cut the lead down to about 12 or so in the 4th.

Look, I'm not saying it was a brilliantly reffed game, I just thought that the bigger reasons for the loss was the lack of defense and superior shot making by the Warriors.

 

[cly2tw]

That assumes that all of the calls against the Warriors were legit and the non calls on the suns were correct as well which I'm not so sure was the case. Azubike (sp?) in particular had 2 or 3 drives near the end which had a lot of contact that went uncalled which helped the Suns cut the lead down to about 12 or so in the 4th.

Look, I'm not saying it was a brilliantly reffed game, I just thought that the bigger reasons for the loss was the lack of defense and superior shot making by the Warriors.

Refs were not the season! We were tired and got beat at the trackmeet. That's the season.

 

[jandaman]

It was poor coaching (as most cases when the Suns get beat badly)

A team with as high offensive power as the Suns, you need to play defense against them. Each of their starting 5 can score 20 a night if you dont play defense.

I think some people here don't see the problem with the matchup with the Warriors... but I do.


You'd have to play Banks a lot of minutes to guard Davis and thats one big reason already why the Suns lose that battle.


I'm concerned with them too... THEY CAN beat the Suns in a series.

 

[Stargazer]

now i know how other teams feel when we seem to hit every shot and blow the doors off the gym.

so theres 3 teams now that we dont match up with that we may face in the playoffs. SA, Utah and GS. ugh...

im about to give up amare. his fouls are beyond stupid sometimes and the only thing i like about his game right now is his jumpshot/fadeaway. he cant create his own shot inside because he will get a foul trying to bull people over. he should of had 30-40 pts against this weak interior team.

Exactly. Watching this game, I kept thinking, "This must be how other teams feel when they play the Suns." And I have to admit, it was pretty discouraging -- fast break dunks and layups on turnovers, three-point shots that seemingly couldn't miss, and shots that went up before the defense even had time to get set. Every time we would chip away at the lead, GS would go on a little run and push it back out of reach. And it felt at times like the Suns were getting baited into making poor shots and losing discipline on defense, just like the Suns bait other teams. I even felt like I could relate to a team like Houston, whose offensive star (Yao) turns out to be a liability because he's just too slow on defense. Nash was just getting killed on defense, almost to the point where I wondered if D'Antoni would have to pull him from the game.

I can see now why Dallas got beat last year. I hope we don't have to face this team in the playoffs.

 

[Covert Rain]

This was so much like the Lakers game it was scary. I mean zero defense at times. Every team loses but it would be nice to actually show up defensively. It's games like these that adds fuel to the fire that the Suns don't play enough defense to win a title. Sheesh!

The GSW do create match up problems with the Suns. All, I know is I really don't want to see this team in the playoffs. Again, I think the Suns are a better team but match ups are everything. Just ask Dallas.

If GSW turn things around this season and ends up in the playoffs, I will bet they add another notch on the bed post so to speak with another upset in the playoffs.

 

[Russ Smith]

I only watched the 4th quarter but that was straight up abusing Steve Nash on defense, he was completely helpless trying to guard Monta Ellis.

SO used to seeing Nash make the other PG look silly, I know he's not a great defender but it's been awhile since I've seen him abused that badly.

 

[nowagimp]

Suns had 20 turnovers that lead to 37 pts for the Warriors. I'd say 24 of those points were the result of refs not calling fouls on the Warriors. Suns lost by 15.

I dont know if it was that bad, but there were an awful lot of reach in fouls and slapdowns on the ball not called, even a head to the chest on one reach in. These "turnovers" led to at least a dozen EASY points. Davis rode on Nashs hip on the dribble penetration quite alot with one call. A number of times it just looked like Davis just pushed nash towards the out of bounds. If that and the slap downs(and hacks) on the ball are allowed, the warriors will be hard to beat when they get hot like last night. Nellies "pick on Nash" scheme works especially well if he can be physically abused on both ends of the floor without foul calls. The officials cemented the ridiculousless of their bias for calling that slap on Diaw in the post against barnes, just a blantant homer call that is almost never made in the NBA. Tim Duncan does that slap EVERY time, and its never called. As far as the defense, not very good, but Dallas was shredded by the warriors in the playoffs, and everyone considers Dallas a "good" defensive team.

The warriors played great and it would have been a much better game if the refs didnt screw things up in their favor at critical points in the game. As it was, it just reminded me once again that the official interpretation of the rules is so inconsistent in the NBA as to make it political. Lawyers like stern love flexible interpretation of the laws(and the rules), just makes me want to watch football and let the NBA stew in its quagmire of questionable credibility.

 

[zett]

Finally some one hits the nail on the head, this was the most pathetic excuse for defense that I have seen in quite some time.
In the 1st quarter Amare stood at the elbo and basically watched as his man who was running a pick and roll, he neither guarded his man or helped, he watched as they shot wide open 3's and had dunk after dunk. he looked like a fan in a commercial that just won an amazing view of a game
If nash wants to call anyone out, he can look in the mirror first, he had a defeatest attitudeall night on defense and it rubbed off on all his turn overs. we just wern't into it at all. poor effort all together, including coaching.
The refs didn't help any either!

 

[jbeecham]

That assumes that all of the calls against the Warriors were legit and the non calls on the suns were correct as well which I'm not so sure was the case.

??? I don't understand what you're saying here.

Azubike (sp?) in particular had 2 or 3 drives near the end which had a lot of contact that went uncalled which helped the Suns cut the lead down to about 12 or so in the 4th.

I agree Azibuke got fouled a couple of times with no calls and it was the refs way of trying to make the game look more balanced. Plus the ref that should've been making those calls was the same ref that refused to call any fouls for the Suns in the 1st half.

Look, I'm not saying it was a brilliantly reffed game, I just thought that the bigger reasons for the loss was the lack of defense and superior shot making by the Warriors.

Lack of defense and the Warriors making a really high percentage of shots (especially 3's) were both huge factors in the outcome and when you add in a ref bias/poor officiating that allows them to create turnovers for easy fastbreak layups then you take what could've been a close game that either team could've won and it becomes a blowout win by 15 pts for the Warriors. The Suns shot the ball pretty well themselves despite being hacked, slapped and bludgeoned with no calls in the 1st half. I don't think the Warriors were in the penalty in either the 1st or 2nd qtr, then they switched to the other end of the court with the only ref who was calling fouls and the Warriors were in the penalty both the 3rd & 4th qtrs. By then the Warriors had already built a double digit lead and the Suns couldn't come back with the Warriors being as hot as they were.

 

[jbeecham]

Did anyone else notice how the Warriors were getting easy baskets in the 1st half? They actually had a guy that would stand out of bounds under the basket and then he would run back onto the court, catch the quick pass and get a layup. Most of the time, the guy would stand out of bounds behind Amare and Amare was looking around and couldn't figure out where his man went and by the time he realized it, the guy was already putting in the layup. I've never seen a team use that kind of a strategy before.

 

[dodie53]

i just read that Monta Ellis scored 15 straight points in the 4th quarter.
wow.

 

[dodie53]

Did anyone else notice how the Warriors were getting easy baskets in the 1st half? They actually had a guy that would stand out of bounds under the basket and then he would run back onto the court, catch the quick pass and get a layup. Most of the time, the guy would stand out of bounds behind Amare and Amare was looking around and couldn't figure out where his man went and by the time he realized it, the guy was already putting in the layup. I've never seen a team use that kind of a strategy before.

didn't notice that.

 

[azirish]

didn't notice that.

Interesting. It makes sense. I've never seen the Suns have quite that much trouble with back cuts.

 

[dodie53]

Nellie is good.

 

[Suns_fan69]

??? I don't understand what you're saying here.

Upon re-reading my previous statement sober I can understand where the confusion is. Basically I am saying that this is a one sided view where we assume that all the calls were going for GState. When you look at the totality including the non calls for Azubuike it wasn't as extreme as you made it out to be.

I agree Azibuke got fouled a couple of times with no calls and it was the refs way of trying to make the game look more balanced.

This is implying that there was some collaboration involved from the refs which I don't buy. I thought they were somewhat consistent with the no calls. Even the commentators (admittedly I was getting the Fox Bay Area feed) were commenting on how the refs were just letting them play on both ends and that they weren't calling a lot of fouls over the last 6 minutes of the game.

Lack of defense and the Warriors making a really high percentage of shots (especially 3's) were both huge factors in the outcome and when you add in a ref bias/poor officiating that allows them to create turnovers for easy fastbreak layups then you take what could've been a close game that either team could've won and it becomes a blowout win by 15 pts for the Warriors. The Suns shot the ball pretty well themselves despite being hacked, slapped and bludgeoned with no calls in the 1st half.

Again this is looking at it all as if we were the Suns were the only ones that were wronged. Factor in the calls that didn't go the Warriors way throughout the game and it looks a little more balanced.

I don't think the Warriors were in the penalty in either the 1st or 2nd qtr, then they switched to the other end of the court with the only ref who was calling fouls and the Warriors were in the penalty both the 3rd & 4th qtrs. By then the Warriors had already built a double digit lead and the Suns couldn't come back with the Warriors being as hot as they were.

What I am seeing here is that you are saying that the calls kinda evened out in the end but the deciding factor was that 'the Suns couldn't come back with the Warriors being as hot as they were' and on this I fully agree. It wasn't the refs shooting those shots for Gstate, it wasn't that the Suns weren't doing enough on the offensive end to win, it was that the Warriors were absolutely on fire and sometimes that happens.

Someone mentioned it on another thread but I agree that we, as fans, are getting a taste of our own medicine and we're finding it a bitter pill to swallow.

 

[azirish]

I'm sure every team thinks the refs are biased against their team. The problem the Suns face is that they are not a team that pushes the envelope on seeing how much fouling they can get away with, so when the refs take a "let them play" approach toward contact on the perimeter, it ALWAYS punishes the Suns.

We've gone through a lot of debate on whether the Suns should load up on thugs and play the grab and hold style of defense that seems to get rewarded during the playoffs. It's not clear that it really works if you don't have a guy like Duncan who gets extra consideration, but that's just part of the debate.

In the Warrior's game, they did not call it all that tight which really hurts when guys are allowed to mug Nash. It is not the same risk for the Warriors who have bigger guards such as Davis. It was made even harder without Banks who is actually strong enough to match up with Davis.

 

[Errntknght]

Did anyone else notice how the Warriors were getting easy baskets in the 1st half? They actually had a guy that would stand out of bounds under the basket and then he would run back onto the court, catch the quick pass and get a layup. Most of the time, the guy would stand out of bounds behind Amare and Amare was looking around and couldn't figure out where his man went and by the time he realized it, the guy was already putting in the layup. I've never seen a team use that kind of a strategy before.

I saw those plays - there was at least one in the second half, too. Only once that I noticed was it Amare's man doing it. Stephen Jackson did it a couple of times and Azbuilke(?) once that I saw - mostly they didn't stand out of bounds but they stepped out of bounds at times as they moved around.

Those are examples of baseline maneuvers which I'm always complaining about the Suns not using. They work because defenders have a hard time watching their man and keeping track of whats happening on the rest of the court at the same time. Such plays work even better against zones. I was hoping the Warriors would do it a whole lot more than they did, so that maybe one of the Sun's coaches would notice. Wouldn't it be great to have Shawn doing something like that instead of standing around idle in the corner?