Suns @ Bucks Tuesday Finals game thread 7-20-2021 - Game 6

[82CardsGrad]

Booker does it too. You don’t have much of a choice with a defender of holiday’s caliber. Btw, read an article from fivethiryeight on holiday earlier today. It’s not a Paul problem it’s a holiday problem. Holiday made book look pedestrian when guarding him game 1. And he did so again when they switched holiday into him midway through third quarter of game 5. Here’s a quote:

“Booker had 27 points on 18 shots when the Bucks switched Holiday’s primary matchup from Paul to Booker midway through the third quarterof Game 5. He had just 13 points on 15 attempts with Holiday living in his hip pocket the rest of the way, and he shot just 1 of 5 with two airballs, one turnover and one assist on the 18 halfcourt possessions when Holiday was his main defender in the second half.”

I have actually been saying this since Game 3... My fear has been, not so much about a hand injury to CP3, but that Holiday has worn him down.
I think if we had a CP3 from 2-3 years ago, the Holiday dynamic wouldn't have been such a detriment. But a 36 year-old Paul, who has had to battle through some nagging hurts this post season, Holiday is really having his way with him.

 

[Cheesebeef]

It feels like you don’t know our offense or refuse to acknowledge that holiday is pressing Paul prior to reaching halfcourt. “Watch the bucks?!?” Lol. We don’t have backcourt defender of holidays quality nor are we pressing.

he’s talking like someone who hasn’t watched the games all year and is more interested in being right about us losing that he’s been predicting since the Lakers series than acknowledging anything else.

he’s basically Son Of 1Sun at this point.

 

[82CardsGrad]

It feels like you don’t know our offense or refuse to acknowledge that holiday is pressing Paul prior to reaching halfcourt. “Watch the bucks?!?” Lol. We don’t have backcourt defender of holidays quality nor are we pressing.

I fully acknowledge what Holiday has been doing to Paul... and have written countless posts about that very topic.
My point remains... the manner in which Paul is bringing the ball up-court is a negative force on our offense. Yes, it's because of Holiday, his size, his strength and his ability to be extremely physical with Paul, while not drawing fouls. It leads to a shortened window of opportunity to run the offense, move the ball and create solid scoring opportunities.

My reference to "watch the Bucks" was merely to point out that there are other ways to move the ball up the court.
It's on CP3, Monty and the coaches to come up with adjustments that don't leave our offense in such a compromised position after CP3 has back-peddled and dribbled the ball into the earth...Granted, the options seem limited... I want to say have Booker bring the ball up more often, however, he is just not reliable. Holiday picked his pockets last game and immediately drained a 3 in his face.

 

[82CardsGrad]

he’s talking like someone who hasn’t watched the games all year and is more interested in being right about us losing that he’s been predicting since the Lakers series than acknowledging anything else.

he’s basically Son Of 1Sun at this point.

You nailed it!

 

[Chaplin]

I fully acknowledge what Holiday has been doing to Paul... and have written countless posts about that very topic.
My point remains... the manner in which Paul is bringing the ball up-court is a negative force on our offense. Yes, it's because of Holiday, his size, his strength and his ability to be extremely physical with Paul, while not drawing fouls. It leads to a shortened window of opportunity to run the offense, move the ball and create solid scoring opportunities.

My reference to "watch the Bucks" was merely to point out that there are other ways to move the ball up the court.
It's on CP3, Monty and the coaches to come up with adjustments that don't leave our offense in such a compromised position after CP3 has back-peddled and dribbled the ball into the earth...Granted, the options seem limited... I want to say have Booker bring the ball up more often, however, he is just not reliable. Holiday picked his pockets last game and immediately drained a 3 in his face.

That's how you play basketball. That's how you bring the ball up when you are hounded by a GREAT defender at 3/4 court. This is all pretty standard stuff. Not sure why you think this is unusual.

 

[82CardsGrad]

That's how you play basketball. That's how you bring the ball up when you are hounded by a GREAT defender at 3/4 court. This is all pretty standard stuff. Not sure why you think this is unusual.

No...this is how some, like CP3 bring the ball up in the face of pressure. Have you ever seen teams break a press? Do they do so by merely dribbling the ball up-court with their backs to the defender? Of course not.
I am simply saying that the Suns' offense would be better served if they were not constantly facing a shortened play-clock. I believe there are other ways to get the ball up-court, even if being pressured, rather than have Paul slowly battling with his back to Holiday.

 

[Bufalay]

Booker does it too. You don’t have much of a choice with a defender of holiday’s caliber. Btw, read an article from fivethiryeight on holiday earlier today. It’s not a Paul problem it’s a holiday problem. Holiday made book look pedestrian when guarding him game 1. And he did so again when they switched holiday into him midway through third quarter of game 5. Here’s a quote:

“Booker had 27 points on 18 shots when the Bucks switched Holiday’s primary matchup from Paul to Booker midway through the third quarterof Game 5. He had just 13 points on 15 attempts with Holiday living in his hip pocket the rest of the way, and he shot just 1 of 5 with two airballs, one turnover and one assist on the 18 halfcourt possessions when Holiday was his main defender in the second half.”

Booker shot 5-6 against Holiday in Game 5 accoding to NBA.com's match-up stats. It's a slightly different stat than the one you mentioned since some of those misses could be on possessions where Holiday started on Booker and then Booker missed after a switch.

 

[Bufalay]

No...this is how some, like CP3 is bringing the ball up in the face of pressure. Have you ever seen teams break a press? Do they do so by merely dribbling the ball up-court with their backs to the defender? Of course not.
I am simply saying that the Suns' offense would be better served if they were not constantly facing a shortened play-clock. I believe there are other ways to get the ball up-court, even if being pressured, rather than have Paul slowly battling with his back to Holiday.

They have been breaking the press the last two games by passing up court to Bridges. Those possessions have been garbage because Bridges doesn't know how to run the offense so they either end up with a broken play or they end up with Paul running the offense late in the clock.

 

[Bufalay]

It feels like you don’t know our offense or refuse to acknowledge that holiday is pressing Paul prior to reaching halfcourt. “Watch the bucks?!?” Lol. We don’t have backcourt defender of holidays quality nor are we pressing.

Chris Paul often turns his back to the defender to protect the ball but this has not kept him from running plays all season.

No one pressured Paul in the regular season, but the Lakers (Schroeder), Clippers (*$%&#$*!) and Bucks (Holiday) all have and he has sucked every time it happens.

Bridges was pressing Middleton full court a few times at the start of game 5, but he rarely brings the ball up the court anyway.

 

[Ronin]

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[82CardsGrad]

They have been breaking the press the last two games by passing up court to Bridges. Those possessions have been garbage because Bridges doesn't know how to run the offense so they either end up with a broken play or they end up with Paul running the offense late in the clock.

Yea... I didn't mean to suggest this is easy. We are outsized and outmanned, period. The Bucks figured out a few games ago, that they can leverage their size and physicality in a variety of ways against us. Giannis... Tucker on Book and Paul at times... Holiday on Paul (and Book on occasion), Middleton... We just don't have the personnel to match any of that.
But, that's the game at the highest level, right. It's a master chess match. Can the Suns diagnose and design a scheme to get them past this disadvantage?

 

[82CardsGrad]

No one pressured Paul in the regular season, but the Lakers (Schroeder), Clippers (*$%&#$*!) and Bucks (Holiday) all have and he has sucked every time it happens.

Bridges was pressing Middleton full court a few times at the start of game 5, but he rarely brings the ball up the court anyway.

Precisely...

 

[Bufalay]

Yea... I didn't mean to suggest this is easy. We are outsized and outmanned, period. The Bucks figured out a few games ago, that they can leverage their size and physicality in a variety of ways against us. Giannis... Tucker on Book and Paul at times... Holiday on Paul (and Book on occasion), Middleton... We just don't have the personnel to match any of that.
But, that's the game at the highest level, right. It's a master chess match. Can the Suns diagnose and design a scheme to get them past this disadvantage?

If they used Payne or Booker to bring up the ball the problem is solved. Paul is too slow or unwilling to expend the energy to go by Holiday in the backcourt.

 

[82CardsGrad]

If they used Payne or Booker to bring up the ball the problem is solved. Paul is too slow or unwilling to expend the energy to go by Holiday in the backcourt.

I have more faith in Payne than Book when it comes to bringing the ball up...but honestly, at this point I would go with either/both of them versus CP3.

 

[dscher]

There are other methods to bringing the ball up. If you go back to the first quarter of Game 5, he was often able to bring the ball up the court and not stop, turn his back and put the breaks on our offense.
Watch the way the Bucks bring the ball up... rarely will see any of their guards turn their back.

Agreed. This is exactly how Beverley bugged the h ell out of us. His press man at half court is exactly how teams can attack CP. I think it gets in his head a bit then it's just enough stagnancy to bog down any flow to our offense. Looks like the Buck's just studied up tape on what the clips were doing.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Agreed. This is exactly how Beverley bugged the h ell out of us. His press man at half court is exactly how teams can attack CP. I think it gets in his head a bit then it's just enough stagnancy to bog down any flow to our offense. Looks like the Buck's just studied up tape on what the clips were doing.

Yep...

 

[Ronin]

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[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

No...this is how some, like CP3 bring the ball up in the face of pressure. Have you ever seen teams break a press? Do they do so by merely dribbling the ball up-court with their backs to the defender? Of course not.
I am simply saying that the Suns' offense would be better served if they were not constantly facing a shortened play-clock. I believe there are other ways to get the ball up-court, even if being pressured, rather than have Paul slowly battling with his back to Holiday.

This isn’t a press. This is one man pressure. There’s a WORLD of difference.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Booker shot 5-6 against Holiday in Game 5 accoding to NBA.com's match-up stats. It's a slightly different stat than the one you mentioned since some of those misses could be on possessions where Holiday started on Booker and then Booker missed after a switch.

I didn’t mention them, that’s a quote from threefiftyeight’s article.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

They have been breaking the press the last two games by passing up court to Bridges. Those possessions have been garbage because Bridges doesn't know how to run the offense so they either end up with a broken play or they end up with Paul running the offense late in the clock.

Yup. It’s 100% ineffectual because they’re not really in a full court press. There’s no gap for passes to take advantage of. It’s just a single man pressuring the ball. And once ewe pass it upcourt it’s even more difficult to get the ball to Paul to initiate the offense bc of hokiday’s denial.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Man... EJ is SALTY on NBA Radio today.

 

[82CardsGrad]

This isn’t a press. This is one man pressure. There’s a WORLD of difference.

Correct. So, the Suns need to come up with an adjustment to lessen the impact of a one-man pressure that is having such a large impact on their leader, and as a result, their offense.
Again, the offense has been entirely disrupted since Holiday began to exert his physicality on Paul... wearing him down to the point where he's been unable to lead the team in the manner he had over the course of most of this season.
On Saturday, the Suns produced 119 points, which, one would see that and think there is nothing wrong. However, as we know, 37 of those points came in Q1. A quarter where Paul had 4 of his 11 assists.
Because Paul was kept at-bay by Holiday, "ISO Ball" ensued...Booker ended the game with 40 points, but they came on a whopping 33 attempts. Just as bad, the 2nd most attempts were put up by Chris Paul, who had 15... FWIW, Ayton had 12 attempts.

Conversely, the FGA's for the big three of the Bucks were much more evenly dispersed, with Giannis and Middleton each having 23, and Holiday with 20.

I think it's fair to suggest that the Big 3 of the Bucks are better, and have played better than the Big 3 of the Suns.
In the post season and particularly in the finals, it's really about your starters and to a lesser extent, your 6 & 7 players off the bench.
Over the past three games, the Bucks starters have outplayed the Suns starters, especially the respective Big 3 guys.

So as I've been saying, the mountain Monty and the Suns have to climb, is enormous. Not insurmountable... however, they have much more to overcome than do the Bucks.

 

[Ronin]

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[GatorAZ]

Not fair but it’s a factual statement:

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[Ronin]

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