Suns @ Clippers game thread 12-20-17

[SirStefan32]

Miami is pissing me off. Whiteside's been out for a long time, tonight there was no Dragic, no Winslow, and they still beat Boston. I was really hoping that would be a top-ten pick easily.

 

[pokerface]

Miami is pissing me off. Whiteside's been out for a long time, tonight there was no Dragic, no Winslow, and they still beat Boston. I was really hoping that would be a top-ten pick easily.

Yeah I've been following Miami closely and it's been bugging me too. Couldn't believe they beat Boston either... cripe. We might need that pick to trade up...maybe.

 

[Haunting]

Probably.

Man does Mike James suck.

And why didn’t chriss drive that hard? He’s a bust.

Dude is 20 and was our best player this game and you feel the need to single out that?

Bender for the 7th time already this season failed to get more than a rebound, 4th time with ZERO rebounds. The guy is 7'1.

Bender is literally useless besides ocassionally making 3s and his offensive game is basically to stand and wait on the 3pt line which is enough to give him open looks because hardly anyone respects his shooting.

 

[leclerc]

A word about his defensive abilities, or just the negatives?

 

[Haunting]

A word about his defensive abilities, or just the negatives?

Defensive abilities? All those defensive abilities of Bender are imaginary.

All his defense stats are crap. Ocassionally he does a good job staying with smaller guys and then by virtue of being long bothering their shots.

Beyond that? Offers no resistance in the post almost and can't rebound at all. Rebounding is part of defense.

Only Ulis, Daniels and House have a worse defensive rating on the team than Bender.

Bender has a negative DBPM and in terms of DRPM he is 89th of 96 ranked power forwards.
http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/3/sort/DRPM/position/6

 

[Mainstreet]

It's ironic what Triano had to say before the game.

azcentral sports‏Verified account@azcsports


#Suns Game Day: Jay Triano expects a different team than the one that got blasted by the Clippers last time. "I think that's one thing now, the team is starting to fight and have a little pride."

 

[elindholm]

It's ironic what Triano had to say before the game.

Actually I thought the Suns fought hard, for the most part. They couldn't make a shot, and they ended up getting demoralized for that reason. They tied in the rebounding battle and had only ten turnovers to the Clippers' nine.

The PG trio of Ulis, Canaan, and James shot a combined 5-25, including 1-12 from three-point range. They did, as a group, manage ten assists against only three turnovers, but that level of offensive inefficiency is going to be very difficult to overcome, even if you get solid effort elsewhere.

Basically the Suns need one of their three PGs to have an abnormally good game. If all three whiff, they can't compete.

 

[Mainstreet]

Actually I thought the Suns fought hard, for the most part. They couldn't make a shot, and they ended up getting demoralized for that reason. They tied in the rebounding battle and had only ten turnovers to the Clippers' nine.

The PG trio of Ulis, Canaan, and James shot a combined 5-25, including 1-12 from three-point range. They did, as a group, manage ten assists against only three turnovers, but that level of offensive inefficiency is going to be very difficult to overcome, even if you get solid effort elsewhere.

Basically the Suns need one of their three PGs to have an abnormally good game. If all three whiff, they can't compete.

The Suns did not come into the game focused as I see it. I did think Josh Jackson came out ready to play. However, the Suns were not able to recover from another miserable start by Tyler Ulis. This time the bench was not able to rescue the Suns.

As you point out, the Suns needed one of their PGs to play well. Perhaps this would have helped the Suns get better rhythm on their shooting. It's just sad to see the Suns play so poorly against a depleted Clippers team that annihilated them in Phoenix.

 

[Haunting]

Our starting lineup is simply a joke and blame McDonough for that.

I said over and over that this teams biggest need was shooting and we did not address this at all.

Our current starting lineup has zero shooting, they have an abyssmal offensive rating of barely 60.

Marquese Chriss despite his struggles is the best 3pt shooter in our starting lineup.

You simply can't have so many guys on a roster that can't even shoot 30% from 3, you can't. It is unreal that McDonough has completely failed to adress this. Maybe it is a tanking strategy but hardly a good one because this team will never be good if they can't be a good 3pt shooting team.

 

[Mainstreet]

Miami is pissing me off. Whiteside's been out for a long time, tonight there was no Dragic, no Winslow, and they still beat Boston. I was really hoping that would be a top-ten pick easily.

Even with Olynyk scoring 32 points and shooting 12-15 from the field it's hard to believe the Celtics lost at home to the Heat.

I guess they celebrated Olynyk's return a bit too much.

 

[Mainstreet]

Our starting lineup is simply a joke and blame McDonough for that.

I said over and over that this teams biggest need was shooting and we did not address this at all.

Our current starting lineup has zero shooting, they have an abyssmal offensive rating of barely 60.

Marquese Chriss despite his struggles is the best 3pt shooter in our starting lineup.

You simply can't have so many guys on a roster that can't even shoot 30% from 3, you can't. It is unreal that McDonough has completely failed to adress this. Maybe it is a tanking strategy but hardly a good one because this team will never be good if they can't be a good 3pt shooting team.

Booker would help the starting unit but I agree the Suns lack enough 3 point shooting. It all begins with Ulis starting at PG.

I have read that Triano wants to find out who can play for next season. Let's hope this is part of it.

 

[Mainstreet]

Our starting lineup is simply a joke and blame McDonough for that.

I said over and over that this teams biggest need was shooting and we did not address this at all.

Our current starting lineup has zero shooting, they have an abyssmal offensive rating of barely 60.

Marquese Chriss despite his struggles is the best 3pt shooter in our starting lineup.

You simply can't have so many guys on a roster that can't even shoot 30% from 3, you can't. It is unreal that McDonough has completely failed to adress this. Maybe it is a tanking strategy but hardly a good one because this team will never be good if they can't be a good 3pt shooting team.

Here are some stats from Scott Bordow on the Suns 3 point shooting. Ouch.

The Suns are 29th in the league on 3 point shooting.

scott bordow‏Verified account@sbordow


Player and ball movement will help but until this changes Suns are going to have struggles on offense: 3-point shooting: 29th in the league 33.1 percent,

Warren: 17.3 percent
Chriss 28.6 percent
Jackson 22.5 percent
Ulis 25.9 percent

2:38 PM - 21 Dec 2017

 

[Carolinacacti]

Booker and Reed would help. Ulis is going to lose his job in the NBA.

 

[SirStefan32]

Here are some stats from Scott Bordow on the Suns 3 point shooting. Ouch.

The Suns are 29th in the league on 3 point shooting.

That's definitely terrible, BUT there are positives too. Bender went from 28% last season to 38% this season. Booker went from 34 his rookie season, to 36 last year, to 38% now. Daniels is shooting well over 40%, as is Dudley, but Dudley doesn't get much playing time (and rightly so.) Cannan appears to be an adequate shooter, and Reed should do well, though rookies tend to struggle shooting from behind the line. Ulis and Chriss are the two that worry me. They just don't look like the same players we saw last year.

All that said, they need to add more shooters at some point. Also, if Warren wants to be a serious player, he HAS to get to mid-thirties from behind the line.

 

[BC867]

Bender for the 7th time already this season failed to get more than a rebound, 4th time with ZERO rebounds. The guy is 7'1

Just because Bender is 7'1", is rebounding his role on the team? Before his growth spurt, didn't he used to be a Point Guard? And now, isn't he probably a too-tall Small Forward? Not to say that it makes him a good Small Forward. He is too young to make that determination. Luckily, the Suns finally have Centers who handle the rebounds.

'Same as when I opposed Alvan Adams remaining at the Center position for a decade because he was 6'9" and took the NBA by surprise in his rookie year. He had the skinniest arms on the court of anyone (including the coaches) and played offense like a 2-Guard. In his case, his college coach, John MacLeod, brought him into the NBA when he was coaching the Suns. It was almost like nepotism.

 

[SirStefan32]

When you are 7'1, you should grab a rebound every five minutes by accident. And this is coming from a guy who is a huge Bender fan. He needs to be more aggressive on the boards and offensively. He also needs to keep working on his shot. Tonight was a good example- he had no lift on his threes. He was shooting them like free throws from behind the line. I like the guy a lot, but it is absolutely not acceptable for a seven-footer to not grab a few rebounds in 20+ minutes.

 

[Hoop Head]

Dude is 20 and was our best player this game and you feel the need to single out that?

Bender for the 7th time already this season failed to get more than a rebound, 4th time with ZERO rebounds. The guy is 7'1.

Bender is literally useless besides ocassionally making 3s and his offensive game is basically to stand and wait on the 3pt line which is enough to give him open looks because hardly anyone respects his shooting.

Chriss has had 4 games this year where he's only gotten 1 rebound and 5 games where he's only pulled down 2 rebounds, so 9 games with 2 rebounds or less and he's the starter. How is that acceptable but Bender coming off the bench and playing a different role not?

A backup should get you about half of what the starter does, right? Maybe more. Well Bender's only had 7 games like that while Chriss has had 9, so you figure it out.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Chriss has had 4 games this year where he's only gotten 1 rebound and 5 games where he's only pulled down 2 rebounds, so 9 games with 2 rebounds or less and he's the starter. How is that acceptable but Bender coming off the bench and playing a different role not?

A backup should get you about half of what the starter does, right? Maybe more. Well Bender's only had 7 games like that while Chriss has had 9, so you figure it out.

All that says to me is both are pathetic rebounders.

 

[BC867]

All that says to me is both are pathetic rebounders.

In their (partial) defense, with three legitimate Centers on the team, this is the first time in a long, long, long time that the Suns Power Forwards (or even Small Forwards) don't have to rebound.

When a Center is near a rebound, the others yield (as they should).

I am enjoying it while I can.

 

[Mainstreet]

In their (partial) defense, with three legitimate Centers on the team, this is the first time in a long, long, long time that the Suns Power Forwards (or even Small Forwards) don't have to rebound.

When a Center is near a rebound, the others yield (as they should).

I am enjoying it while I can.

Yes, enjoy it BC. I can't remember the Suns ever having 4 legitimate centers on their roster.

However, the PF position should be producing more rebounds as noted.

 

[Hoop Head]

They're depending on their Centers to carry the load on the glass and it's worked well. The Suns are 4th in the league in rebounds per game with 45.7. Chandler is averaging 9.6, Len at 9.2, and Monroe at 8.3. They're getting about 42% of their rebounds from their Center play.

They're definitely lacking rebounding from the PF position but since their Centers are rebounding that well it hasn't hurt them that much that they don't have a good rebounder at PF. I suspect if they did though that could swing some games in their favor. They're allowing 45.8 rebounds per game, which is almost identical to what they're pulling down. That is the 4th worst in the league at rebounds allowed.

They're ranked 3rd in pace, which will produce more rebounds a game in total as well but they need a 2nd strong rebounder on the floor to start winning the rebounding battles with their opponents which should get them to win more games overall. They're allowing the 3rd most Offensive Rebounds a game at 10.7, which allows their opponents more shots and chances to beat them.

 

[Mainstreet]

They're depending on their Centers to carry the load on the glass and it's worked well. The Suns are 4th in the league in rebounds per game with 45.7. Chandler is averaging 9.6, Len at 9.2, and Monroe at 8.3. They're getting about 42% of their rebounds from their Center play.

They're definitely lacking rebounding from the PF position but since their Centers are rebounding that well it hasn't hurt them that much that they don't have a good rebounder at PF. I suspect if they did though that could swing some games in their favor. They're allowing 45.8 rebounds per game, which is almost identical to what they're pulling down. That is the 4th worst in the league at rebounds allowed.

They're ranked 3rd in pace, which will produce more rebounds a game in total as well but they need a 2nd strong rebounder on the floor to start winning the rebounding battles with their opponents which should get them to win more games overall. They're allowing the 3rd most Offensive Rebounds a game at 10.7, which allows their opponents more shots and chances to beat them.

Some nice stats. It would be good to have a dominant rebounding team down the road.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Our starting lineup is simply a joke and blame McDonough for that.

I said over and over that this teams biggest need was shooting and we did not address this at all.

Our current starting lineup has zero shooting, they have an abyssmal offensive rating of barely 60.

Marquese Chriss despite his struggles is the best 3pt shooter in our starting lineup.

You simply can't have so many guys on a roster that can't even shoot 30% from 3, you can't. It is unreal that McDonough has completely failed to adress this. Maybe it is a tanking strategy but hardly a good one because this team will never be good if they can't be a good 3pt shooting team.

You said over and over? You’ve only been on this board like two weeks.

 

[JCSunsfan]

They're depending on their Centers to carry the load on the glass and it's worked well. The Suns are 4th in the league in rebounds per game with 45.7. Chandler is averaging 9.6, Len at 9.2, and Monroe at 8.3. They're getting about 42% of their rebounds from their Center play.

They're definitely lacking rebounding from the PF position but since their Centers are rebounding that well it hasn't hurt them that much that they don't have a good rebounder at PF. I suspect if they did though that could swing some games in their favor. They're allowing 45.8 rebounds per game, which is almost identical to what they're pulling down. That is the 4th worst in the league at rebounds allowed.

They're ranked 3rd in pace, which will produce more rebounds a game in total as well but they need a 2nd strong rebounder on the floor to start winning the rebounding battles with their opponents which should get them to win more games overall. They're allowing the 3rd most Offensive Rebounds a game at 10.7, which allows their opponents more shots and chances to beat them.

One telling stat would be how many offensive rebounds they are giving up. I haven’t checked. But if they are giving up an average number, then rebounding is sort of a zero sum thing. If the centers get more, the pf’s will get less.

 

[Cheesebeef]

You said over and over? You’ve only been on this board like two weeks.

nice work there JC! That was a solid Perry Mason moment.