Suns fire Jeff Hornacek

[sunsfan88]

Wow, just freaking wow. Indefensible.

Also, what kind of message does it send to the players that the guy who disrespected the coach is on the team longer than the coach.

I just hope the Suns can deal Kieff away. I've read a lot online from the media that Hornacek should have been afforded a chance to coach a team that didn't have a Morris brother on it because of the negative and cancerous aura they brought to the team.

I don't think it's gonna do the young Earl Watson any favors to have to deal with Kieff as well. He really should have been traded last summer instead they gambled on him improving his trade value and lost that gamble big time. Nothing else to wait, just trade him. Like you said, it's embarrassing that Kieff outlasted Hornacek.

 

[sunsfan88]

https://twitter.com/Suns/status/694548756578983936

https://twitter.com/Suns/status/694550055894659072

 

[Covert Rain]

I just hope the Suns can deal Kieff away. I've read a lot online from the media that Hornacek should have been afforded a chance to coach a team that didn't have a Morris brother on it because of the negative and cancerous aura they brought to the team.

I don't think it's gonna do the young Earl Watson any favors to have to deal with Kieff as well. He really should have been traded last summer instead they gambled on him improving his trade value and lost that gamble big time. Nothing else to wait, just trade him. Like you said, it's embarrassing that Kieff outlasted Hornacek.

I kind of agree with that sentiment. I hate when teams make the coaches the scapegoats but it's how sports works. The reality is our FO has been a mess and I don't think we have the roster that says.....this team is going to be great someday.

 

[Chaplin]

I don't get it. A week ago we were all calling for Hornacek's head, and now that he's gone, it's unfair?

This isn't all the players' fault, and it's not all the coach's fault, but firing a lame duck coach is a hell of a lot easier than trading away players when you want at least SOME return.

 

[JS22]

This is like Lindsey Hunter 2.0.

Not even close.

 

[JS22]

I could never cheer for them to lose during an actual game. But if I'm checking the scores and I see they lost - the reality is that losing is gaining ground right now.

That's pretty much how I feel.

I wouldn't even get mad if they won a few more games here and there as long as it's with guys like Booker, Len, Warren, etc getting a ton of minutes.

 

[devilalum]

Broussard said he thinks McD is gone too.

sent from a fone

 

[slinslin]

Broussard said he thinks McD is gone too.

sent from a fone

Now that would be the typical dumb Sarver move that we are waiting for to happen.

But it is Broussard and when Broussard says "he thinks" he is already lying.

 

[Covert Rain]

Broussard said he thinks McD is gone too.

sent from a fone

I wouldn't be shocked but doesn't this just reinforce the turmoil this team has had in the FO since Sarver took over?

 

[sunsfan88]

Broussard said he thinks McD is gone too.

sent from a fone

If Broussard is the one that said that, it likely means that McD is going to or already signed a long term extension.

 

[slinslin]

McDonough has done a good job. The Suns terrible communication and PR is not his fault really, maybe Sarver should invest in some personnel to take care of this.

Overall when you look at the roster McDonough inherited and what we have right now, it is a huge improvement in terms of value.

His only real blunder was drafting Tyler Ennis.

 

[JCSunsfan]

McDonough has done a good job. The Suns terrible communication and PR is not his fault really, maybe Sarver should invest in some personnel to take care of this.

Overall when you look at the roster McDonough inherited and what we have right now, it is a huge improvement in terms of value.

His only real blunder was drafting Tyler Ennis.

And EVERY gm, even the best of them, makes blunders now and then. I do not mind making changes if they are necessary, (I couldn't wait for Blanks to get fired) but with young GM's like McD and Kerr before, they often get fired or leave just as they are really starting to get it.

 

[Covert Rain]

McDonough has done a good job. The Suns terrible communication and PR is not his fault really, maybe Sarver should invest in some personnel to take care of this.

Overall when you look at the roster McDonough inherited and what we have right now, it is a huge improvement in terms of value.

His only real blunder was drafting Tyler Ennis.

I don't know if you can classify it as good. The roster is mediocre, we have not really lured any free agents, drafted or traded for any game changing players under him. He hasn't really improved the FO reputation either. Granted he has only been the GM since what 2013 but when is it appropriate to judge his time here? All I know is this team needs to show it has some resemblance of a plan.

 

[slinslin]

I don't know if you can classify it as good. The roster is mediocre, we have not really lured any free agents, drafted or traded for any game changing players under him. He hasn't really improved the FO reputation either. Granted he has only been the GM since what 2013 but when is it appropriate to judge his time here? All I know is this team needs to show it has some resemblance of a plan.

Uh what?

Booker looks like he could develop into the face of the franchise. Booker alone makes this roster more valueable than the roster we had prior to McDonough.

And we have promising young players in Warren and Len.

We have 2 young guards that are both on the cusp of developing into allstar caliber players. Before Bledsoe's injury they were both putting up allstar caliber numbers, especially Bledsoe.

Before McDonough took over our roster was void of any talent whatsoever with a few bad contracts.

 

[chickenhead]

Broussard said he thinks McD is gone too.

sent from a fone

Where? Don't see a tweet; was it on radio or TV? And was there any sense of whether it would be soon, or at season's end?

 

[frdbtr]

Here are my thoughts. I don't follow this board like I used to. I don't follow the Phoenix Suns like I used to. In the 90's I was so die hard, I would go into bouts of depression when the suns lost in the playoffs. After Colangelo sold the suns, I was hopeful that we got a guy similar to Mark Cuban but instead we got a disaster. I love Hornecek and feel he is a good coach and if he decides to continue coaching will make some owner very happy with his skills. As far as the Suns go, it doesn't really matter who is coaching this team, they will fail because they don't have an organization behind them that gives them the ability to succeed. If you have the ability to search the forum and find what I said about Hornecek when he was hired, I said that I was happy and excited for him but I felt like he would be fired in a couple of years because he would, once again, be the fall guy behind an organizational disaster. Until we get ownership who actually knows what he/she is doing like Colangelo did, the Suns will continue to be a disaster. I will remain a Suns fan but I cannot invest in this organization emotionally anymore, not until we get change at the top.

 

[Covert Rain]

Uh what?

Booker looks like he could develop into the face of the franchise. Booker alone makes this roster more valueable than the roster we had prior to McDonough.

And we have promising young players in Warren and Len.

We have 2 young guards that are both on the cusp of developing into allstar caliber players. Before Bledsoe's injury they were both putting up allstar caliber numbers, especially Bledsoe.

Before McDonough took over our roster was void of any talent whatsoever with a few bad contracts.

So...basically potential guys and Bledsoe. I have seen many on this forum question whether Bledsoe can be your #1 player you can build around. Many say no.

This is a mediocre roster. I didn't say it was void of talent. What is your measuring stick anyway? Simply putting up enough W's to get into the playoffs as a 7th or 8th seed? We have a different measure of success. There is no way this roster as built is a future legit contender. We need more pieces.

By the way, I don't dispute he has gotten SOME pieces here. The question is can you parlay that into anything else? If he can't pull of trades, draft players or lure the type of FA you need to complete the roster....what good are these pieces? I don't take anything away from the Suns in terms of getting rid of bad contracts and shedding some of the dead weight.

That's why I insinuated above maybe the jury is still out on him. The question still stands....how long do you give him before saying it's time to move on (making a judgement)? I was asking your opinion.

 

[chickenhead]

It's telling to me that all the national reports refer to Suns as "reeling," "in disarray," etc. And without any of the "once proud" qualifiers the team used to get. It's a bummer.

If McD is staying, then this is the real test. GMs don't usually get to fire more than two coaches. (Assuming this was McD's decision; if it wasn't he's probably done anyway.)

 

[SO91]

So...basically potential guys and Bledsoe. I have seen many on this forum question whether Bledsoe can be your #1 player you can build around. Many say no.

This is a mediocre roster. I didn't say it was void of talent. What is your measuring stick anyway? Simply putting up enough W's to get into the playoffs as a 7th or 8th seed? We have a different measure of success. There is no way this roster as built is a future legit contender. We need more pieces.

Is this the time frame fans are expecting to turn it around? No wonder this team never wants to tank or go through a long rebuild. He took over in 2013 and we're already complaining that it's taking too long to see results?

 

[slinslin]

Is this the time frame fans are expecting to turn it around? No wonder this team never wants to tank or go through a long rebuild. He took over in 2013 and we're already complaining that it's taking too long to see results?

Especially considering that the 2013 roster had nothing. No additional future picks, no young talent at all.

The only negative moves that are probably

a) drafting Tyler Ennis but this is forgivable
b) argueably trading for Knight, just because it was an attempted win-now move. Now in hindsight it is easy to say that this trade unnecessary since we drafted Devin Booker, missed out on LaMarcus Aldridge and are rebuilding more than ever.
c) argueably signing Tyson Chandler, also in hindsight since we did not get Aldridge and for veteran leadership you could have gotten someone cheaper
d) argueably trading Marcus Morris, also in hindsight since we did not get Aldridge

Basically McD made a super aggressive play for Aldridge that did not work out ultimately. He always said they would be aggressive and they were. If you blame him for b, c and d then you are blaming him for trying to sign top tier free agents.

 

[Covert Rain]

Is this the time frame fans are expecting to turn it around? No wonder this team never wants to tank or go through a long rebuild. He took over in 2013 and we're already complaining that it's taking too long to see results?

Which is why I insinuated the jury was still out on him. I was basically asking the question...how long is enough before you pass judgment? How long do you give the guy? Unlike the previous FO hires, I am not convinced he is the sole problem. How many drafts, FA periods, trade deadlines and coaching hires does a GM get before you know what he is?

Unfortunately, close doesn't count in sports. Almost getting FA's doesn't count. Almost puling of trades doesn't count. Drafting potential guys that don't pan out doesn't count. I am not coming down on one side or the other. I get arguments both ways. Just curious what everyone thinks in terms of how long should you give a GM?

 

[slinslin]

Which is why I insinuated the jury was still out on him. I was basically asking the question...how long is enough before you pass judgment? How long do you give the guy? Unlike the previous FO hires, I am not convinced he is the sole problem. How many drafts, FA periods, trade deadlines and coaching hires does a GM get before you know what he is?

What is your measure of success? Wins?

McDonough has done way more good moves than bad ones.

 

[Covert Rain]

What is your measure of success? Wins?

McDonough has done way more good moves than bad ones.

No. My measure of success is titles but that is just me. You say he is a good GM. I am saying the jury is probably still out and you can't say that yet. If none of his "potential" guys turn out....if Bledsoe proves to be a guy you can't build around....if his next coaching hire bombs...what will you say then?

I am asking you...how long would you give the guy before deciding it's time to move on? I don't know there is a standard....I am asking you what you think.

P.S. The average NBA tenure of a GM is currently 5 years statistically. Should he at least have that long?

 

[Catlover]

No. My measure of success is titles but that is just me. You say he is a good GM. I am saying the jury is probably still out and you can't say that yet. If none of his "potential" guys turn out....if Bledsoe proves to be a guy you can't build around....if his next coaching hire bombs...what will you say then?

I am asking you...how long would you give the guy before deciding it's time to move on? I don't know there is a standard....I am asking you what you think.

P.S. The average NBA tenure of a GM is currently 5 years statistically. Should he at least have that long?

I don't think you can look at the rest of the league and use that as a measuring stick for the Suns. Look at previous teams in our current era that were healthy, lacked stockpiled picks and won only 25 games with a roster that played to it's talent level. I don't think you'll find one that comes close to that description that also comes close to having turned it around in 5 years.

It would require some shrewd moves and some incredible lottery luck to turn a team around in 5 years that was as talent-poor as we were. We are easily in better shape than we were when Ryan was hired. But a year ago I would have confidently said that he had improved us at a rate that greatly exceeded expectations. Now, it's hard not to have doubts. I'd say he's earned more of a chance than he's had so far but he's near the end of his rope. Future decisions will play a part but IMO the way things shake out over the next year with Bledsoe, Knight and Len will answer most of the questions.

 

[SO91]

I don't know if you can classify it as good. The roster is mediocre, we have not really lured any free agents, drafted or traded for any game changing players under him. He hasn't really improved the FO reputation either. Granted he has only been the GM since what 2013 but when is it appropriate to judge his time here? All I know is this team needs to show it has some resemblance of a plan.

Which is why I insinuated the jury was still out on him. I was basically asking the question...how long is enough before you pass judgment? How long do you give the guy? Unlike the previous FO hires, I am not convinced he is the sole problem. How many drafts, FA periods, trade deadlines and coaching hires does a GM get before you know what he is?

Unfortunately, close doesn't count in sports. Almost getting FA's doesn't count. Almost puling of trades doesn't count. Drafting potential guys that don't pan out doesn't count. I am not coming down on one side or the other. I get arguments both ways. Just curious what everyone thinks in terms of how long should you give a GM?

You ask the question "how long before you can pass judgement", but you're essentially already starting to, by pointing out he hasn't lured any free agents or drafted a bona fide superstar that tears the league apart day one. IMO, it's too early to start down that road, since as you point out, he took over in 2013

No. My measure of success is titles but that is just me. You say he is a good GM. I am saying the jury is probably still out and you can't say that yet. If none of his "potential" guys turn out....if Bledsoe proves to be a guy you can't build around....if his next coaching hire bombs...what will you say then?

I am asking you...how long would you give the guy before deciding it's time to move on? I don't know there is a standard....I am asking you what you think.

P.S. The average NBA tenure of a GM is currently 5 years statistically. Should he at least have that long?

This team is not going to go from the joke it was when this GM took over to a trophy in 3 years, or 5 years. Because we were so bad, and had to rebuild and re-do the roster like they've tried to, a fair way to judge the direction of the team is not in titles, IMO. Every fan out there wants that title, and it'd be nice if we were to hit a homerun with a FA or draft choice, but realistically, that's not gonna happen. For me, I'll judge the process the front office takes. I want to see upwards trends and the team building towards a playoff team first, then a serious threat to the big boys in the West, and finally a legit finals participant and hopefully, with a little bit of luck, a title. I have no idea if this GM is capable of getting us to that point. I have my doubts still, but I think it's way too early to even think that he's crap and can't get it done.

If the moves you pointed out bomb and we're as bad as or worse than when he took over in 5-6 years, then yeah, I think the majority would agree that he was terrible and didn't get the job done.