Suns Free Agent Mini Camp

AzStevenCal

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Let's see. How about package the pick in a trade to get a veteran player? Or trade the pick for a future pick so you have something to rebuild with when the window closes?

Either move would have been better and hopefully, that is what we'll see in the future. But keep in mind, Dantoni didn't use a lot of the veteran players that were brought in also - it might have sent the wrong message to someone with a banker's mentality. If Sarver starts selling 1st round picks for cash again that will do me in as a fan. I'm a bit less concerned about selling the 2nd round picks as long as he's spending money on free agents but cashing out on a 1st round pick is incredibly shortsighted, especially if it's done routinely as it was for a few years here.

Steve
 
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Trifecta

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Let's see. How about package the pick in a trade to get a veteran player? Or trade the pick for a future pick so you have something to rebuild with when the window closes?

Perhaps we were gun shy about trading for future picks after we traded the #7 pick in '04 for a future pick that ended up being in the 20s.
 

Mainstreet

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I don't want to back track in Suns history but I don't think one morning D'Antoni awoke and thought, let's trade KT to Seattle and let's give them two first round draft picks so they will take this quality player. And then Seattle trades KT for another first round draft pick. That's three first round draft picks Seattle got for KT. This smacks of Sarver and the smell of money. As Griffin pointed out, there are other uses for first round draft picks besides helping peddle contracts and selling draft picks.
 

AzStevenCal

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I don't want to back track in Suns history but I don't think one morning D'Antoni awoke and thought, let's trade KT to Seattle and let's give them two first round draft picks so they will take this quality player. And then Seattle trades KT for another first round draft pick. That's three first round draft picks Seattle got for KT. This smacks of Sarver and the smell of money. As Griffin pointed out, there are other uses for first round draft picks besides helping peddle contracts and selling draft picks.

I think Sarver instructed Kerr to reduce costs AND to trade Kurt Thomas. I think Kerr crafted the deal and Sarver rubber stamped it. Perhaps Steve felt backed into a corner and took the only deal he could find but I still find it difficult to hold him blameless.

Steve
 

Mainstreet

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I think Sarver instructed Kerr to reduce costs AND to trade Kurt Thomas. I think Kerr crafted the deal and Sarver rubber stamped it. Perhaps Steve felt backed into a corner and took the only deal he could find but I still find it difficult to hold him blameless.

Steve

Exactly.

A rookie GM (Kerr) and a money fixated owner spelled disaster. It seems the Suns are going down the same trail again with Babby and Blanks. IMO, if they ever stand up to Sarver, they will be gone.
 

Griffin

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Perhaps we were gun shy about trading for future picks after we traded the #7 pick in '04 for a future pick that ended up being in the 20s.
But the risk of getting a much lower pick in return is not really a factor when you are trading a low pick to begin with as would have been the case with the 27th pick in 2006 or the 24th pick in 2007 the Suns sold. Also, the 2004 draft fiasco is inexcusable in itself. While trading a pick for a future pick is not uncommon and can be a good strategy, generally teams get more than a single future first-rounder for high lottery picks. Oh wait, the Suns did get something more for that pick: a second-round pick (Vroman) and, you guessed it, $3M cash. This was the beginning of the Suns' new draft strategy.

Also, if a team likes a player (Iguadala reportedly) they generally wait to see if that player might still be available before trading away a pick. The Suns, afraid of being forced to draft and pay a player they may not have liked, such as Deng, and afraid the Bulls would pull their offer (and cash) off the table, jumped the gun. So if they were gun shy afterwards, it's only their own fault for making such a lousy trade in 2004. But even so, it is still far better to take the risk of a future draft pick if the alternative is getting nothing in return at all except for cash.

Of course one could argue that the Suns used whatever money they received from selling those picks to cover team-related costs such as paying other players already on roster or free agents. But therein lies the fundamental problem with this strategy: the purpose of the draft is to get new young players so that teams can grow and maintain a competitive edge. These are basketball assets that can be converted into talent via drafting players or trading for players. It is not so that teams can raise the necessary funding to cover operational costs from teams that are willing to buy those picks without having to give any basketball assets back in return. This approach will inherently make the latter teams, the ones willing to buy picks instead of selling them, more competitive.
 

AzStevenCal

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Exactly.

A rookie GM (Kerr) and a money fixated owner spelled disaster. It seems the Suns are going down the same trail again with Babby and Blanks. IMO, if they ever stand up to Sarver, they will be gone.

I hope you're wrong. Not so much about them being gone but that standing up to Sarver would be the end of them. If Sarver needs yes men, we're doomed because he certainly doesn't know enough to actually run this organization without quality input.

Steve
 

Mainstreet

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I hope you're wrong. Not so much about them being gone but that standing up to Sarver would be the end of them. If Sarver needs yes men, we're doomed because he certainly doesn't know enough to actually run this organization without quality input.

Steve

IMO, I believe this to be true because I think Sarver will not allow a GM (or in this case Babby), to make moves without his approval. Sarver is a hands on owner when it comes to money. From coach to GM, he underpays basketball minds. I can only imagine how the Suns would look today if Sarver had hired an experienced GM (not DA or Kerr) after BC left and gave him the authority to make basketball decisions.
 

overseascardfan

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Exactly.

A rookie GM (Kerr) and a money fixated owner spelled disaster. It seems the Suns are going down the same trail again with Babby and Blanks. IMO, if they ever stand up to Sarver, they will be gone.

I find this ironic because isn't the same thing happening with Bobby and David, where you get the sense that if David Stern could make Sarver go away he would and Bobby is walking on eggshells trying to not piss off Stern.
 

mojorizen7

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I think Sarver instructed Kerr to reduce costs AND to trade Kurt Thomas. I think Kerr crafted the deal and Sarver rubber stamped it. Perhaps Steve felt backed into a corner and took the only deal he could find but I still find it difficult to hold him blameless.

Steve
Yep.....sort of....IMO.

It wasn't basketball suggestions from Kerr to Sarver that spurned that attrocious deal. I doubt that Sarver was making any personnel/roster demands either at that time.
I would imagine that Sarver called to Kerr for a major cost cut and Kerr gave full discretion to D'Antoni as to which player to cut, and DA promptly decided on KT,who he probably felt was not as important to his system/roster and could be easily replaced.

Fool's...all three of 'em.
:)
 

Mainstreet

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Does anyone know if the Suns reached an agreement with any players invited to mini camp before the lockout? I haven't heard a word. It would seem the Suns must have a plan or they wouldn't have gone through all the work to hold such a camp.
 

AzStevenCal

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Yep.....sort of....IMO.

It wasn't basketball suggestions from Kerr to Sarver that spurned that attrocious deal. I doubt that Sarver was making any personnel/roster demands either at that time.
I would imagine that Sarver called to Kerr for a major cost cut and Kerr gave full discretion to D'Antoni as to which player to cut, and DA promptly decided on KT,who he probably felt was not as important to his system/roster and could be easily replaced.

Fool's...all three of 'em.
:)

Hard to argue.

Steve
 

BC867

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...could definitely be a better defender/rebounder, but he's also only making 5 million per year and can actually create his own shot.
Could definitely be a better defender/rebounder ... and can actually create his own shot? That's the age-old Suns mentality at Power Forward. Shooting over defense and rebounding. It is why the Suns don't get the calls and have never been a legitimate championship contender.

Only making 5 million per year? That's the banker's mentality that Sarver has infested on the Suns.

Boy, are Suns fans brainwashed. Shooting and cheap - yes. Defense and rebounding - not so important.
 

Magnus

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It's funny how 5 million dollars! is considered cheap for a player that is kind of average at best. Most of us won't see a million dollars ever in our life, even if we are doing jobs that are more relevant to the community, yet you get that kind of money by warming the bench in the NBA. Atheletes are incredibly overpaid.
 

BC867

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It's funny how 5 million dollars! is considered cheap for a player that is kind of average at best. Most of us won't see a million dollars ever in our life, even if we are doing jobs that are more relevant to the community, yet you get that kind of money by warming the bench in the NBA. Atheletes are incredibly overpaid.
True. As are entertainers. As the middle class disappears and stress rises in our society, Americans pay up the old wazoo for instant gratification and diversion.

Isn't it obscene how good teachers are so grossly underpaid, adding less skilled educators to the mix? And how family physicians are bailing out left and right, becoming specialists (where the money is), causing less skilled general practitioners to lower medical standards.

I checked in for a case of dehydration and the hospital turned it into a 23 1/2 hour ordeal of mis-diagnoses and contradictions. I was assigned a hospital doctor just over from Russia whose medical degree in the States was as a D.O. (a glorified chiropractor) from the New York Institute of Technology.

New York Institute of Technology? What did they teach him? How to wire a telephone? He could barely speak English and was apparently no more proficient at reading it, causing him to mis-diagnoses an MRI they administered, along with various other tests (full body X-ray, etc.), when it was clear that dehydration was the culprit. Boy, did they milk the insurance company.

What's happening in sports -- .240 hitting shortstops getting paid millions of dollars per year to sit on the bench -- is just a microcosm of what's happening in our runaway society.
 

Errntknght

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Isn't it obscene how good teachers are so grossly underpaid, adding less skilled educators to the mix? And how family physicians are bailing out left and right, becoming specialists (where the money is), causing less skilled general practitioners to lower medical standards.

Yes, its a bitch trying to run massive organizations like countries so that the outcome is something that 'everyone' approves of. Rules have so many unintended consequences... in addition to which the people who apply the rules do what humans always do - bend the rules to favor themselves.
 

Magnus

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True. As are entertainers. As the middle class disappears and stress rises in our society, Americans pay up the old wazoo for instant gratification and diversion.

Isn't it obscene how good teachers are so grossly underpaid, adding less skilled educators to the mix? And how family physicians are bailing out left and right, becoming specialists (where the money is), causing less skilled general practitioners to lower medical standards.

I checked in for a case of dehydration and the hospital turned it into a 23 1/2 hour ordeal of mis-diagnoses and contradictions. I was assigned a hospital doctor just over from Russia whose medical degree in the States was as a D.O. (a glorified chiropractor) from the New York Institute of Technology.

New York Institute of Technology? What did they teach him? How to wire a telephone? He could barely speak English and was apparently no more proficient at reading it, causing him to mis-diagnoses an MRI they administered, along with various other tests (full body X-ray, etc.), when it was clear that dehydration was the culprit. Boy, did they milk the insurance company.

What's happening in sports -- .240 hitting shortstops getting paid millions of dollars per year to sit on the bench -- is just a microcosm of what's happening in our runaway society.


Question is, how long can this system sustain itself? We've already seen if a couple of banks go down, it's suddenly a world wide crisis. Not to mention how much something simple as price of oil dictates.. well everything really: politics, prices of everything else, lifestyle, it starts wars. This capitalism system has some serious flaws, and sooner or later they come to haunt us.

But, there is no alternative. Communism should work in theory, but it's a total trainwreck in reality. Those with power and wealth always want more, and that's a huge part of the problem.


And I agree with what you said, that the teachers are grossly underpaid. It seems like going through college and high school just gets easier for every new generation, going for quantity over quality. There is a huge difference between memorising information and actually learning, understanding. And not a lot of teachers care if you learned to recite your answer, or you really know what you're talking about. I know a couple of people that study medicine, and judging by their stories, I already fear to go visit the next generation of doctors.


Anyway, this has absolutely nothing to do with Suns FA mini camp, but I thought it doesn't hurt to talk of this :)
 

Irish

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I expect the lockout will last a very long time. There are just too many teams losing so much money that they can save by shutting down. When you add up the debt service on teams pruchased in last decade such as the Suns, it is frightening. This is not the NFL WORRYING ABOUT not makeing enough profit. In the NBA, it is clear that it is hard to have a quality team and not be a threat to being in the luxury tax eventually.
 

leclerc

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So how about the mini-camp players. Who do we favor and what would our roster be (before any trades or FA signings).
 

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