Suns, Gentry closing in on deal

[Andrew]

Good to have him signed.

 

[cly2tw]

Keeping Shaq is more valuable as long as he is playing the way he plays. Add him to any playoff team without a sieve-like defensive backcourt, he'd be the difference to win it all or just a 2nd round out. This way, we could sign and trade him next season for some good returns.

 

[AceP]

Damn, the worst news for me since failed to make the playoff. Guess I made the right decision stop posting. I miss you guys, but sorry, I can't stand this f****** stupid organization any longer.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Gentry improved our offense, defense, rookies and morale. People who are angered by this signing are those that enjoy having a sourpuss look on their face at all times.

 

[Mainstreet]

Gentry improved our offense, defense, rookies and morale. People who are angered by this signing are those that enjoy having a sourpuss look on their face at all times.

I agree especially considering the Suns couldn't hire a better HC for the money they were willing to spend. I wasn't expecting too much from the Suns after Gentry took over with Amare out, but he had the Suns playing hard all the way to the end of the season. Also the Suns were really making an effort to rotate on defense. The Suns need to add some defensive players to the mix no doubt. IMO, the Suns players were making a statement they wanted Gentry back by playing hard. After all it is a player's league as pointed out by many. A veteran team could have easily rolled over.

 

[mojorizen7]

Gentry improved our offense, defense, rookies and morale. People who are angered by this signing are those that enjoy having a sourpuss look on their face at all times.

The offense and moral improvement was done simultaneously just by loosening the reigns.
The rookies got better(?) because they got minutes.
I would agree that the defense improved slightly...but hardly enough to give anybody credit for, it's still bad. I'm too lazy to look up split stats to compare. I'm only going by watching the games.
Gentry was smart and gave the players and fans what they wanted to see...and he got an extension, good for him. I don't fault nor dislike Gentry, i just think that he's absolutely NOT the answer.
Kerr's original bold statements of turning this franchise into a smarter,tougher, defensive force have apparently been abandoned.
Sarver seems unwilling to tank a season or two in order to gut and rebuild this roster.....if so,then Kerr has no choice than to resign a career interim coach,extend our worst defensive player, entertain the fans and stand pat with this aging roster.

Very frustrating for this fan.
Gentry vowed to get us back to the playoffs next year....wow,thats some accomplishment,you want a Ladmo Bag Alvin?
Sour grapes maybe, but i'm not looking forward to next season at all as it stands right now. Hopefully i can get excited again later on this summer.

 

[elindholm]

Sarver seems unwilling to tank a season or two in order to gut and rebuild this roster

You keep making this claim without offering a single viable plan for how the Suns would "gut" their roster. Do you really want them to trade O'Neal for a bunch of long-term crappy contracts, just to make their record worse?

Very frustrating for this fan.

It's frustrating for all of us, but the seeds have been sown. There is nothing that can be done over the next two or three years to turn the corner right away.

 

[mojorizen7]

You keep making this claim without offering a single viable plan for how the Suns would "gut" their roster. Do you really want them to trade O'Neal for a bunch of long-term crappy contracts, just to make their record worse?

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/f45/
We have seen trades go down in recent yrs that NO ONE would have felt were "viable" as you put it...yet they have happened. You act as though this team has absolutely no leverage,no flexibility and no wiggle room to take this thing in a different direction.

It's frustrating for all of us, but the seeds have been sown. There is nothing that can be done over the next two or three years to turn the corner right away.

Right away?....You're not listening....turn what corner? Do you honestly believe the Suns are in the process of rebuilding? This is patching,tweaking and retooling....again.
Nowhere have i said that the SUNS could turn this around in a single offseason by gutting the roster. Also, i don't need you to validate my frustration.

 

[Chaplin]

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/f45/
We have seen trades go down in recent yrs that NO ONE would have felt were "viable" as you put it...yet they have happened. You act as though this team has absolutely no leverage,no flexibility and no wiggle room to take this thing in a different direction.

Right away?....You're not listening....turn what corner? Do you honestly believe the Suns are in the process of rebuilding? This is patching,tweaking and retooling....again.
Nowhere have i said that the SUNS could turn this around in a single offseason by gutting the roster. Also, i don't need you to validate my frustration.

Why is it so difficult to understand that trading is a 2-way street? It's just not a realistic possibility for any team to "gut" their roster. The bad teams in the league have been bad for years. I guess the closest approximation is the Indiana Pacers, but still.

 

[mojorizen7]

Why is it so difficult to understand that trading is a 2-way street? It's just not a realistic possibility for any team to "gut" their roster. The bad teams in the league have been bad for years. I guess the closest approximation is the Indiana Pacers, but still.

No doubt,it is a 2 way street but it's not always a win/win or fair trade for both teams. I'm simply saying that when a team decides to truly rebuild and go in a different direction that you've got to accept(more often than not)that you're not going to get fair value in making initial moves. Addition by subtraction.
I hope you can be objective here when i ask you this question:
Do you believe that the SUNS could find a way to aquire a 2010 first round pick by dealing away(in some shape or form, either seperately,packaged or in a 3 way deal) Nash,Shaq and JRich?
I say yes. If you disagree then fine.

 

[elindholm]

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/f45/

Stoudemire for Rondo? There's not a chance that the Celtics would make that trade.

We have seen trades go down in recent yrs that NO ONE would have felt were "viable" as you put it...yet they have happened.

Only when one of the league's marquee franchises is the beneficiary. I defy you to come up with a counterexample.

You act as though this team has absolutely no leverage,no flexibility and no wiggle room to take this thing in a different direction.

They don't. Not now. They have to wait and acquire some assets, plus get out from under O'Neal's contract.

Do you honestly believe the Suns are in the process of rebuilding?

Yes, but again, not immediately. So I guess we could argue about the precise definition of "in the process of."

Look, we all knew after the Marion/O'Neal trade that 2009-10 was going to be a lost cause. Go back to those threads and you'll see that many posters were already making this point. Throw in the fact that Nash's buyout is much higher than the $5 million that I incorrectly remembered, and the Suns just don't have any cards to play this summer.

This is patching,tweaking and retooling....again.

It is for this season, because the Suns don't have any better options. As long as O'Neal and Nash are on the roster, are playing well, and can't be moved (except at an unacceptable loss), the team might as well try to make the playoffs.

Nowhere have i said that the SUNS could turn this around in a single offseason by gutting the roster.

Then wait a year before sounding the alarm. Trying a massive rebuild right now would be foolhardy. Any long-term strategy requires the correct combination of timing and assets. An objective look at the Suns' hoopshype salary page makes it obvious that this is not the correct time to blow things up. On the other hand, the Suns pretty much have no choice but to rebuild once O'Neal is gone and Nash either departs or is forced by age into a reduced role.

 

[mojorizen7]

Stoudemire for Rondo? There's not a chance that the Celtics would make that trade.
Nice of you to elaborate on that particular thread. That wasn't the proposal. I think you underestimate the elite teams that are currently faltering in the playoffs. You can't say for sure which teams would do what anymore than i can.



Only when one of the league's marquee franchises is the beneficiary. I defy you to come up with a counterexample.
When did the Nuggets become a marquee franchise?...i'm sure you saw them dumping Camby on the Clips when they did right?


They don't. Not now. They have to wait and acquire some assets, plus get out from under O'Neal's contract.
We'll just have to disagree on that i suppose.



Yes, but again, not immediately. So I guess we could argue about the precise definition of "in the process of."
Again, we'll just have to disagree. The SUNS are not in the process of rebuilding imo. Ownership is hanging on to Nash,Shaq, and the style of play because they don't have the balls to be a bad team for a year or two.

Look, we all knew after the Marion/O'Neal trade that 2009-10 was going to be a lost cause. Go back to those threads and you'll see that many posters were already making this point. Throw in the fact that Nash's buyout is much higher than the $5 million that I incorrectly remembered, and the Suns just don't have any cards to play this summer.
Buying out Nash isn't viable i agree,but moving him is very much so viable....



It is for this season, because the Suns don't have any better options. As long as O'Neal and Nash are on the roster, are playing well, and can't be moved (except at an unacceptable loss), the team might as well try to make the playoffs.
"An unacceptable loss"....I can hear Sarver speaking those very words.



Then wait a year before sounding the alarm. Trying a massive rebuild right now would be foolhardy. Any long-term strategy requires the correct combination of timing and assets. An objective look at the Suns' hoopshype salary page makes it obvious that this is not the correct time to blow things up. On the other hand, the Suns pretty much have no choice but to rebuild once O'Neal is gone and Nash either departs or is forced by age into a reduced role.

We shall see where this franchise goes in 2 years, in the meantime, we'll be the Willie Mays of NBA franchises...or worse, the Brett Favre's of the NBA.

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[elindholm]

Nice of you to elaborate on that particular thread. That wasn't the proposal.

Good grief, you expect me to read the entire thread and try to divine which obscure proposal you might have been referring to? This isn't a scavenger hunt. If you have a point to make, make it.

When did the Nuggets become a marquee franchise?...i'm sure you saw them dumping Camby on the Clips when they did right?

I don't have a clue how this relates to the argument. Both teams in that trade had clear priorities and got what they wanted. It was an ugly trade because it so blatantly highlighted the league's harsh financial realities, but it made complete sense from the moment it was consummated.

Ownership is hanging on to Nash,Shaq, and the style of play because they don't have the balls to be a bad team for a year or two.

What you don't seem to understand is that, since O'Neal has negative value, trading him would make the Suns worse for longer, not assist their rebuild.

Come on, what are two things that every rebuilding team wants? Young talent and expiring contracts. The Suns already have a massive expiring contract, to the tune of $20 million. How do you expect them to improve on that?

Buying out Nash isn't viable i agree,but moving him is very much so viable....

No it isn't. No one wants to rent him for one year at his current price. There's not a single team in the league for whom Nash is a good fit, on this contract, at this stage of his career, with the possible exceptions of Dallas, if Kidd bolts, or New York, if D'Antoni can push forth a delusion of grandeur.

"An unacceptable loss"....I can hear Sarver speaking those very words

I meant a strategic loss. You seem to think that being bad for its own sake is some sort of moral achievement. The Suns don't have their own draft pick next summer, so making themselves worse for 2009-10 accomplishes nothing -- especially if they also make their financial situation worse, which any O'Neal trade would do!

We shall see where this franchise goes in 2 years

I can tell you right now that it isn't going anywhere in two years. The hole they've dug is far deeper than that.

 

[mojorizen7]

Good grief, you expect me to read the entire thread and try to divine which obscure proposal you might have been referring to? This isn't a scavenger hunt. If you have a point to make, make it.

Good grief is right, you claim i haven't given you any viable options, i point you in the right direction, you throw out some random proposal from a thread containing several posters views, and you claim that i need to make a point? LOL, you're very clever. So now it's about that kind of crap huh? RIF

I don't have a clue how this relates to the argument. Both teams in that trade had clear priorities and got what they wanted. It was an ugly trade because it so blatantly highlighted the league's harsh financial realities, but it made complete sense from the moment it was consummated.

Hogwash, putting it lightly.

No it isn't. No one wants to rent him for one year at his current price. There's not a single team in the league for whom Nash is a good fit, on this contract, at this stage of his career, with the possible exceptions of Dallas, if Kidd bolts, or New York, if D'Antoni can push forth a delusion of grandeur.

Your condescending absolutes are not so absolute it seems.

I meant a strategic loss. You seem to think that being bad for its own sake is some sort of moral achievement. The Suns don't have their own draft pick next summer, so making themselves worse for 2009-10 accomplishes nothing -- especially if they also make their financial situation worse, which any O'Neal trade would do!

I know what you meant and as i originally said, you can't expect to rebuild your franchise without taking a few in the chin so to speak. Small example here: A microcosm example but bear with me please....The SUNS put a decent amount of stock in drafting and paying Dragic to come here and be the next Eurostar guard right? Whether we moved Nash for a dime or 2 first round picks(doesn't matter) benefits the growth of this young man regardless. Obviously we may not get fair value in return for Nash, but it benefits the future of this team in terms of addition by subtraction by just simply moving on and building something thru a youth movement.
The SUNS know what they've got here. Its no big mystery to Kerr and Gentry...anyone that thinks that next season is a year for Gentry and co to sit back and examine what we've got to work with is eating the BS.

 

[mojorizen7]

I hope you can be objective here when i ask you this question:
Do you believe that the SUNS could find a way to aquire a 2010 first round pick by dealing away(in some shape or form, either seperately,packaged or in a 3 way deal) Nash,Shaq and JRich?
I say yes. If you disagree then fine.

Still waiting for someone to decide that this scenario is completely unrealistic and unobtainable.

Now if you'll excuse me...i have to grub down my chinese takeout!

 

[elindholm]

you throw out some random proposal from a thread containing several posters views

It wasn't "a random proposal," it was the title of the thread -- as well as the topic of the first several posts, before I lost interest in reading further.

Obviously you don't think much of whatever your mystery proposal is, since you're being so secretive about it.

Edit: Ah, I see it now, Marbury as an expiring contract. Doesn't work. Had you proposed something similar with the Knicks around last season's trade deadline, we could have had an interesting discussion.

I know what you meant and as i originally said, you can't expect to rebuild your franchise without taking a few in the chin so to speak.

Oh, they're taking one in the chin all right. Their team payroll next year will be top five in the league, or close to it, and they won't have anything close to a top-five team. Suffering takes many forms.

Whether we moved Nash for a dime or 2 first round picks(doesn't matter) benefits the growth of this young man regardless.

No one is going to give up two first-round picks for Nash, and no team with cap space wants him, which means that the "dime" would also include another large contract -- which the Suns don't want.

In any case, I think Dragic can develop in 18 minutes per game as well as he can develop in 34.

Its no big mystery to Kerr and Gentry...anyone that thinks that next season is a year for Gentry and co to sit back and examine what we've got to work with is eating the BS.

Huh? That's exactly what next season is about. Well, that, maintaining credibility as a franchise, and figuring out what to do with Stoudemire. Those are the three priorities.

(A big salary for a 2010 pick) Still waiting for someone to decide that this scenario is completely unrealistic and unobtainable.

A lottery pick, no way. A late first-rounder, sure, probably. But the question is still, what else do you have to take back? You can't rebuild when you're trapped behind a bunch of long-term crappy contracts.

 

[Yuma]

I don't know, does anyone else here feel we are rewarding a coach for failure? One of the few Suns coaches of the 14 in our history to not make the playoffs. I mean bottom line, he couldn't rally the troops and make any headway towards even making a move to the last spot in the Western Conference. I am not holding my breath for any major success by Gentry in the upcoming season.

 

[Covert Rain]

It's time to stop looking for a quick fix. The problems with this team can't be solved in one summer or with coaching changes.

100% agree. The unfortunate aspect of this (if you listen to Sarver's recent comments) that Sarver doesn't seem to agree. It sounds as if this team is still in retool mode. It's a mistake IMO.

And, at times, we saw the Suns' second unit defending pretty well toward the end of last season, so I think it's unfair to claim that Gentry can't teach defense. It is clear that he can't teach defense to Nash and O'Neal -- but no one can, so cut Gentry some slack.

We also saw the second unit get abused pretty bad. I don't think you can tell if Gentry can coach defense period with this roster. Also, in Shaq's defense, his defensive #'s in the front court are good (defensive PER), also this team was #4 in Paint defense since acquiring Shaq. If your referring to his pick and roll skills....OK.

I don't know. I personally think that extending Nash is a mistake, but I don't have strong feelings about it, and I can see both sides of the argument. I also think it's important to remember that Nash may not agree to an extension. The comments he made about "looking forward to the conversation" were in February, and a lot has changed since then.

If they could resign Nash to play a roll in which the PG position transitions I would be all for it. However, signing Nash to extension to lead this team for the next 3 years is a mistake IMO if thoughts of transition are not part of it.

As I already said, gradually add players who have the potential to be good defenders.

Blowing up the roster isn't an option, because the entire roster has negative trade value, except for Barbosa and a couple of the small-salary guys. There simply aren't any realistic blow-up trades that are a better option than just letting some of the big contracts expire..

Unfortunately, this is probably true. If you look at the sorry trade offers we were getting for Amare or Shaq at the trading deadline, it appears nobody is willing to make a good trade in return. If that is the case, there is more value to hanging on to the expiring contracts.

If you can move Shaq, Amare or Steve to start building a better defensive team...you do it now. I just might not be an option.

I don't know, does anyone else here feel we are rewarding a coach for failure? One of the few Suns coaches of the 14 in our history to not make the playoffs. I mean bottom line, he couldn't rally the troops and make any headway towards even making a move to the last spot in the Western Conference. I am not holding my breath for any major success by Gentry in the upcoming season.

I am not sold on Gentry. Though I think he doesn't have much to work with in the way of defense, his winning percentage was not that much better then Porter after going back to the old system. The defense was worse under Gentry. The only thing that Gentry managed to do in my eyes is utilize the strengths of this teams offensive talent better. However, he also didn't have Amare which would probably have helped out a bit in the win the column. I would have preferred Tim T. from the Celtics getting a shot.

I have said it before, the best coach in the NBA couldn't get this team a title. This team needs to give Gentry the talent to do something or it doesn't matter who are coach is.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'd didn't catch all the video today on the Suns introduction of Gentry as HC but I did catch the tail end. It sounded to me (with all the buffering) that signing Steve Nash is the Suns next highest priority. It was a good interview. I hope I can hear it again at the Suns official site.

 

[Yuma]

I don't know, does anyone else here feel we are rewarding a coach for failure? One of the few Suns coaches of the 14 in our history to not make the playoffs. I mean bottom line, he couldn't rally the troops and make any headway towards even making a move to the last spot in the Western Conference. I am not holding my breath for any major success by Gentry in the upcoming season.

Listened to Suns pumping up Gentry. I think he was hired with plenty of time to get this team to the playoffs. Even with Amare out, he had Nash and Shaq, and should have got us the eighth seed and couldn't do that! I am not happy we are rewarding a coach for mediocrity. I basically think he failed, and we should try something else, aside from someone who proved he couldn't get us to the playoffs.

 

[Mainstreet]

Here's a link to Paola Boivin's blog today at azcentral that covers a lot of what Kerr said at Gentry's introduction. It sound like this coming season will be a transition season and the Suns will have financial flexibility after next season.

Kerr: "The thing about our financial situation is we're one year away from having flexibility, so we're going to make it through this year one way or the other. We'll look at every option. We may do something, we may not, but the nice thing is our hands are not tied in the future.

If the Suns decided to ride it out for one more season without dumping contracts for garbage, I think this is the right approach. The Suns could be a player in the 2010 FA market.

http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/PaolaBoivin/53072

 

[MigratingOsprey]

everyone think they're going to be a player in 2010 - however, not everyone will be correct

the length of the contract pretty much points to what is being done

they'll keep nash, try to stay uptempo, try to get some pieces around him and then the interesting decision comes in two years

i don't think gentry is going anywhere no matter how ugly it gets so if it does go that route they are looking at a blow it up and start over either in the last year or his deal or transitioning when his deal is up

if it goes really well the window is still pretty small - with nash and shaq moving on do you want gentry leading you into the future?!

as for the earlier comparison to his contract and flips? .... it's pretty easy to figure out the difference - one is a proven NBA HC with a lot of success