Suns @ Grizzlies Sunday game thread 1-26-20

[Phrazbit]

Uh yeah I got those stats from basketball reference. So . . . yeah, 2019-20 season = offensive regression.

Yeah. The offensive regression is unquestionable. Last year he had a TS% that was among the best in the league, right now it is lousy, especially for a big man.

His progression on defense has made him, overall, a better player. We are far better when he is in the game, but if he is going to become a star he needs to put it together on both ends.

 

[Phrazbit]

I think he is struggling with the offensive philosophy. Monty wants the players to choose and action and go within ".5" seconds of getting the ball. I like the idea, it is working in some areas, not others. Ayton, IMO, is rushing things because of it.

He gets the ball in the high post and, instead of surveying the situation and maybe doing something that leads him deeper into the post, he is immediately either trying to pass back out or rushing a weak jumper, often without even gathering properly to shoot it, he kinda flings the ball at the hoop.

 

[Carolinacacti]

Rubio vs Ja........... game over

 

[Hoop Head]

I literally just showed you the stats that are down. Shooting percentage & FT attempts. One that was once touted as his strength, but isn’t any longer. One that was already poor for a stud center getting worse.

his scoring is up a point in much worse efficiency. He’s up 0.1 assists/game. And he’s up 0.4 offensive rebounds.

remember, the statement was his offensive game has regressed. And statistically it has.

He has 15 games played this season. 1 good or bad game will change his stats more than anyone else on the team because it's still such a small sample size. I'll give you the FG% because that isn't something that should change game to game like PPG or FTA per game but it's too early to fault him for his averages going up or down compared to last year. Also your acting like he's shooting bad from the field. He's still shooting 53% from the field, which is higher than Jokic or Embiid (50.7 for Jokic and 47.2 for Embiid).

I'm not one to make excuses for Ayton. I'm normally agreeing with you on your takes but I think you're being needlessly critical in this instance. If you want to say he had a bad game, I won't disagree but he has been an efficient scorer and is not regressing at any rate that should be troubling.

 

[Mainstreet]

Oubre is who he is. There is a reason that Washington was willing to let him go last year. With that being said, Oubre’s value extends off the court. I could argue that he is the most important Suns player in the locker room and has been integral in changing the culture and enjoyment of the game for his teammates.

Washington let Oubre go because they did not want to pay him. Good for Suns, bad for Wizards.

 

[TJ]

I think he is struggling with the offensive philosophy. Monty wants the players to choose and action and go within ".5" seconds of getting the ball. I like the idea, it is working in some areas, not others. Ayton, IMO, is rushing things because of it.

He gets the ball in the high post and, instead of surveying the situation and maybe doing something that leads him deeper into the post, he is immediately either trying to pass back out or rushing a weak jumper, often without even gathering properly to shoot it, he kinda flings the ball at the hoop.

Bingo. Needs to be decisive, but at the same time, process the situation. Midrange jumpers are fine, but he should be driving to the bucket more often than shooting

 

[Sunstroke]

you and I watched two different games. I saw Ayton repeatedly get clowned by morant and jjj down the stretch in crunch time. Saw him get his shot under the basket blocked by an unathletic euro. Saw him fumble and bumble the ball repeatedly and lose a crucial ball in the crunch. Saw him loafing up and down the court on both offense and defense. Saw him clang shot after shot on the way to 37% shooting from the field and 60% from the FT line. Saw him cause a turnover with 2 mins left when he inexplicably stopped rolling to the hoop and I think book sent a pass that should’ve lead to a layup, dunk or FTs but for Ayton just stopping in no man’s land. I mean he ended up with 17 and 15 but they were meaningless stats.

I saw these thin

you and I watched two different games. I saw Ayton repeatedly get clowned by morant and jjj down the stretch in crunch time. Saw him get his shot under the basket blocked by an unathletic euro. Saw him fumble and bumble the ball repeatedly and lose a crucial ball in the crunch. Saw him loafing up and down the court on both offense and defense. Saw him clang shot after shot on the way to 37% shooting from the field and 60% from the FT line. Saw him cause a turnover with 2 mins left when he inexplicably stopped rolling to the hoop and I think book sent a pass that should’ve lead to a layup, dunk or FTs but for Ayton just stopping in no man’s land. I mean he ended up with 17 and 15 but they were meaningless stats.

We saw the same game yet I didn't feel like criticizing any NBA player today. Your points very valid
Yet I saw some determination with 3 guys on him in one of his buckets. I saw fight after Ja duped the ***** out of him
then Ayton responded with a swat against Morant later in the 4th.
Hey, I've called him a project in previous posts. but I liked the effort tonight.
And by the way, the 15 boards in his stat line kept the game competitive, imo.

 

[ProdigalSun]

Man what a depressing day all around...

 

[TJ]

Not sure if it was the Kobe hangover, but again, the team collectively didn’t figure itself out until like 6 minutes into the third quarter. And like many other games prior, it was too late

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Bingo. Needs to be decisive, but at the same time, process the situation. Midrange jumpers are fine, but he should be driving to the bucket more often than shooting

I agree. I also can’t recall him driving to the basket once this season.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Not sure if it was the Kobe hangover, but again, the team collectively didn’t figure itself out until like 6 minutes into the third quarter. And like many other games prior, it was too late

This is definitely a thing. The slow starts and typical double digit deficit are curious given the fact they seem to turn it on the 3rd or 4th to close gaps.

 

[1Sun]

This is definitely a thing. The slow starts and typical double digit deficit are curious given the fact they seem to turn it on the 3rd or 4th to close gaps.

Hmmm. Perhaps a different starting line-up is in order...maybe the one that is typically on the floor when they do turn it on in the 3rd or 4th (hint, it includes Bridges, not Saric)...

 

[Suns_fan69]

Not sure if it was the Kobe hangover, but again, the team collectively didn’t figure itself out until like 6 minutes into the third quarter. And like many other games prior, it was too late

About the only encouraging thing from this was seeing the bench come to life a little bit. Good to see them cut into the lead and bought Booker a lot of rest in the 4th.

Booker's been playing extremely well, and I think a big part of it is this good stretch of healthy play. I am worried the minutes are going to take a toll on him at some point.

 

[Ronin]

Just a sad day yesterday.

 

[95pro]

Carter's hustle alone almost got us the win , it got us within striking distance and we fizzled again. Carter made Morant work the full length of the court and Morant curled up a bit and gave the ball up willingly. Once Rubio came back in morant went back to work.

I'd still like Oubre to come off the bench and be the guy at the end of the 1st quarters. If we can sub him and Carter in for the unit that finishes the 1st and starts the 2nd, then we could have some good intensity on the court. I'm still for Oubre finishing the game, i'm not advocating for his minutes to be reduced. I just think inserting him into the game later in the 1st would help the team overall.

 

[Sunburn]

He has 15 games played this season. 1 good or bad game will change his stats more than anyone else on the team because it's still such a small sample size. I'll give you the FG% because that isn't something that should change game to game like PPG or FTA per game but it's too early to fault him for his averages going up or down compared to last year. Also your acting like he's shooting bad from the field. He's still shooting 53% from the field, which is higher than Jokic or Embiid (50.7 for Jokic and 47.2 for Embiid).

I'm not one to make excuses for Ayton. I'm normally agreeing with you on your takes but I think you're being needlessly critical in this instance. If you want to say he had a bad game, I won't disagree but he has been an efficient scorer and is not regressing at any rate that should be troubling.

Jokic and Embiid shoot 3's, which skews overall fg%. It is better to look at TS% when comparing. Embiid is at 59%, Jokic at 59%, and Ayton at 55%.

 

[Covert Rain]

The team's shot selection is just horrible in these losses and even sometimes the wins. Also, what is up with getting Ayton the ball down low? It seems like the Suns have one play. Drive, Ayton follow and try and lob the ball to him. I have seen a TON of turnover on that play in the last couple weeks.

They can't draw up more plays to get him the ball down low?

So frustrating to watch sometimes.

 

[WildBB]

The team's shot selection is just horrible in these losses and even sometimes the wins. Also, what is up with getting Ayton the ball down low? It seems like the Suns have one play. Drive, Ayton follow and try and lob the ball to him. I have seen a TON of turnover on that play in the last couple weeks.

They can't draw up more plays to get him the ball down low?

So frustrating to watch sometimes.

Ayton isn't consistent and neither are the drivers. Ayton has to look for the pass first and sky to the rim to get it.

 

[Sunburn]

We were calling for more looks down low to Ayton last year. Do we think both of these coaches are dumb, or is the problem with Ayton?

 

[SirStefan32]

Neither Igor nor Monty are idiots. Obviously the problem is with Ayton. That said, that's normal and it is to be expected from a big man of his age. He'll have good games and mediocre games. Sometimes even bad games.

 

[95pro]

Ayton's problem is timing and spacing. Most times he's too close to the defender and rim while the lob is high and further back, i thought it was booker but watching several games Ayton just doesn't create enough space to get a running jump. He rolls too quick when he has the defender in front of him.

 

[BC867]

We were calling for more looks down low to Ayton last year. Do we think both of these coaches are dumb, or is the problem with Ayton?

It has become evident that the problem is indeed that Ayton avoids contact.

As had been posted over and over, he came to us having been the primary Power
Forward in his one year in college. His experience was not as the primary Center.

The Suns need to obtain a physical Power Forward to share the big-man duties
with Deandre. That would be awesome!

As much as we need a solid backup Point Guard and backup Power Forward (I
guess that could be Saric, but would rather see a more consistent one) . . .

Our greatest need is that power Power Forward. Which would instantly improve
two positions. Center and Power Forward. Then we'd be playoff competitive.

Does Jones not consider this? Is Sarver holding him back to avoid spending?

Meanwhile, this lack of filling needed positions will wear down Booker. And
will erode his desire to stay in Phoenix.

Hopefully, the addition of Larry Fitzgerald to the ownership group, and as a
friend of Sarver, will help achieve that. For a brief time, right now, we have
a glimmer of hope. Time will tell. Blitz him Fitz!

 

[Sunburn]

It has become evident that the problem is indeed that Ayton avoids contact.

As had been posted over and over, he came to us having been the primary Power
Forward in his one year in college. His experience was not as the primary Center.

The Suns need to obtain a physical Power Forward to share the big-man duties
with Deandre. That would be awesome!

As much as we need a solid backup Point Guard and backup Power Forward (I
guess that could be Saric, but would rather see a more consistent one) . . .

Our greatest need is that power Power Forward. Which would instantly improve
two positions. Center and Power Forward. Then we'd be playoff competitive.

Does Jones not consider this? Is Sarver holding him back to avoid spending?

Meanwhile, this lack of filling needed positions will wear down Booker. And
will erode his desire to stay in Phoenix.

Hopefully, the addition of Larry Fitzgerald to the ownership group, and as a
friend of Sarver, will help achieve that. For a brief time, right now, we have
a glimmer of hope. Time will tell. Blitz him Fitz!

I'm starting to feel bad for Booker. He has raised his game to another level as of late, and this team continues to waste his performances.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm starting to feel bad for Booker. He has raised his game to another level as of late, and this team continues to waste his performances.

I feel bad for Booker as well. These comments ring in my ears. The front office has failed him thus far.


Kellan Olson‏Verified account @KellanOlson

A depressing line from Devin Booker: "It's some figuring out that we have to do. And hopefully we can do that sooner (rather) than later. I've been here 4 years and you want to get things going early to make the season a lot better and a lot more fun."

8:07 PM - 5 Jan 2020

 

[Covert Rain]

Neither Igor nor Monty are idiots. Obviously the problem is with Ayton. That said, that's normal and it is to be expected from a big man of his age. He'll have good games and mediocre games. Sometimes even bad games.

I don't think it's all Ayton. The only play the Suns seem to run is drive and kick or the drive and toss up. The only other thing that happens is Ayton fighting for position and they dump it in. I don't see a concerted effort to run post up plays with much variety. Maybe that is because he is struggling grasping that type of play but Rubio/Booker have been turning it over with regularity with crap passes after the drive. It's driving me nuts.