Suns @ Hawks 2-23-19

[Finito]

We suck.

We are all mad.

The life of a suns fan.

Honestly this is heart breaking for me. I’m born and raised in Mesa. I’m 36 I was prime 90s suns used to pretend to be KJ on the court during recess.

I remember my mom taking me to open practices when you had to just bring canned food for the suns food drives. The lower bowl full to watch the team practice!! Can you imagine that.

All I’ve ever known is winning and being a first class organization. From KJ/ Barkley to Kidd then Marbury and drafting a young freak like Amare then Nash came back....now this. This is a level of hopelessness and frustration I’ve never felt. I watch The Jump and they laugh at us and say fold the franchise and it breaks my heart to see what was once such a source of pride for our state to now be a national punch line. It honestly breaks my heart

1 Suns championship would mean more to me than 5 Cardinals Super Bowls.

 

[Finito]

For the record, I put as much, if not more blame for Ayton getting only 8 FG attempts, on Ayton himself!
He’s got to demand the damn ball! He’s got to get into the places that make it worth getting him the damn ball!

You understand Igor’s 30-30-30 system right?

The team is told to take at least 30 3s a game. He’s a big man big men have to be fed but if the players are being told to chuck up 3s then that’s the system. He’s being told to set picks at the 3 point line. This is what we are all arguing about.

 

[1tinsoldier]

You understand Igor’s 30-30-30 system right?

no.
30 3's and what's the other two 30s?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

For the record, I put as much, if not more blame for Ayton getting only 8 FG attempts, on Ayton himself!
He’s got to demand the damn ball! He’s got to get into the places that make it worth getting him the damn ball!

I don’t disagree with this either. I know he’s younger but Embiid wouldn’t allow a game where he only shot 8 times. And he really wouldn’t allow it after talking big in the press right before a game.

 

[TJ]

no.
30 3's and what's the other two 30s?

30 consecutive losses and 30 fans in the stands?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Honestly this is heart breaking for me. I’m born and raised in Mesa. I’m 36 I was prime 90s suns used to pretend to be KJ on the court during recess.

I remember my mom taking me to open practices when you had to just bring canned food for the suns food drives. The lower bowl full to watch the team practice!! Can you imagine that.

All I’ve ever known is winning and being a first class organization. From KJ/ Barkley to Kidd then Marbury and drafting a young freak like Amare then Nash came back....now this. This is a level of hopelessness and frustration I’ve never felt. I watch The Jump and they laugh at us and say fold the franchise and it breaks my heart to see what was once such a source of pride for our state to now be a national punch line. It honestly breaks my heart

1 Suns championship would mean more to me than 5 Cardinals Super Bowls.

I can’t say I agree with your final point, but I get where you are coming from. We moved to Phoenix when I was five in 1974-5. Suns were only show in town. Other than my dad yelling at the tv on sundays they were my first introduction to sports. A member of their training team was our PE teacher and he brought Ronnie Lee to school one time and his Afro became my favorite player. I attended the Adams/Westphall basketball camp at the JCC. My grandmother, who did aerobics class at the J, would make the Suns chocolate chip cookies. I remember my dad making me ask bill walton to get out of my courtside seat at the madhouse on McDowell when I was 6. I recall celebrating while up late with a fraternity brother who was the only PHOENIX kid with me in Boston in college when the KJ/majerle/chambers teams got good. When i moved back to Phoenix my job at the law firm in ‘96 found me in an office across the street from the stadium and doing some legal work for colangelo. Seeing the jersey on the statue during playoffs. To me the suns are PHOENIX. And like you it crushes my soul to see them so bad for so long. We can try to look everywhere, but the truth is, Sarver is a blight, a pox, on this team. And no matter any luck we might have, he will hold us back as long as he’s owner.

 

[taz02]

Ayton is not Embiid. Ayton is more of a finesse player. He is going to need a system designed specifically for him.

 

[Finito]

Embiid also didn’t play his first 2 years in the league and even in his 3rd year he only played 32 games.

We didn’t even really get a look at him till his 4th year and even in that year he only played 63 games.

Also the team is built around him. They made it a point to get him the ball.

 

[WildBB]

Maybe it's time to watch real competition.

 

[Finito]

no.
30 3's and what's the other two 30s?

30 3s
30 assist
30 free throws

That’s his “system” it’s a motion offense

 

[Chaplin]

of course you're not because you really don't have much of a leg to stand on. Your initial statement about secretly disliking Ayton is just an out and out projected LIE on fans who dare find any kind of fault with Ayton's game, so thank you for not arguing the semantics of dislike v. lie... while then calling me a hypocrite.

As to the rest of that initial post, spot on? you AGAIN project on to others going into victimhood saying an Ayton apologist is the same as a common criminal! Uh... no. And get a grip. That was just as inane as your silent Ayton dislikers lie. truth is, there was a lot wrong with that post, but I don't care to do a deep dive into it because... who cares?

Yes you and your ilk treat those of us that have a modicum of understanding about rookie big men as being idiots.

But that’s your MO a lot of the time anyway. You’re crying even more than normal.

 

[SirStefan32]

Maybe I missed something, but I don't understand what this argument is about. Is there really a group of people here who don't like Ayton? Who?

 

[Chaplin]

Maybe I missed something, but I don't understand what this argument is about. Is there really a group of people here who don't like Ayton? Who?

This is about Ayton being the scapegoat of this season which is ridiculous.

There is a group of posters in the board that want him to be Anthony Davis NOW and for some reason they’ve forgotten anything about how rookie big men start in this league.

 

[sunsfan88]

Ayton is not Embiid. Ayton is more of a finesse player. He is going to need a system designed specifically for him.

LMA is a good comparison for him in my opinion and I like it because LMA at Ayton’s size would be a handful for opposing teams.

 

[sunsfan88]

I thought was very active today both defensively and on the glass. The rebounds he had today were pulled down between multiple Hawks players each time and he well earned most of them rather than any gimmies.

Defensively, we need a PF with size.

 

[sunsfan88]

I think it’s annoying that some on this forum have formed cliques and there are people that try to group people together to attack them all or something.

It’s something that started this season but it should stop imo.

The whole “you and your ilk” and “you and your group” or whatever thing is pretty weak imo.

There’s only one “ilk” and one group here...Suns fans. That’s it.

It’s almost as annoying as the whole “Ayton fanboys” and “Doncic fanboys” crap that people throw out because they can’t acknowledge the talent in both players.

 

[SirStefan32]

This is about Ayton being the scapegoat of this season which is ridiculous.

There is a group of posters in the board that want him to be Anthony Davis NOW and for some reason they’ve forgotten anything about how rookie big men start in this league.

Ah, OK. I agree. Ayton was hyped so much that most people had unrealistic expectations. I have my moments when I get really frustrated with him, but he is fine considering he is a rookie big man.

 

[Proximo]

Ayton is efficient when he gets layups and and offensive rebounds.

He really is not that efficient when he gets the ball 15 feet out. He likes to just take a 15 footer, which he makes like 30% of the time.

This is what I don't think people seem to get, we cannot consistently get him posted up 5 feet from the basket. A good post player starts 12 -15 feet out, and maneuvers their way to the basket - Ayton currently sucks at that.

The problem is not as simple as giving the ball to Ayton more, you would have to get it to Ayton more within 5 feet, which is very hard, and usually will lead to more turnovers and less overall success than just getting it to him when he is truly open which is what we are already doing.

What I do think should be done more, is more pick and roll. That is being underutilized in my opinion.

Here is the bottom line though this team just cant shoot well enough. It really is that simple - they are worst 3 point shooting team in the league, combine that with subpar rebounding and that is why they are consistently losing.

 

[Cheesebeef]

This is about Ayton being the scapegoat of this season which is ridiculous.

There is a group of posters in the board that want him to be Anthony Davis NOW and for some reason they’ve forgotten anything about how rookie big men start in this league.

I don't even know what to call your lying at this point besides pathological.

Can you show me ONE post of someone saying, implying or intimating that Ayton should be Anthony Davis NOW?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Yes you and your ilk treat those of us that have a modicum of understanding about rookie big men as being idiots.

my ilk? lol. And Chap, your constant lies about "my ilks'" position on the subject matter show you don't even have a modicum of understanding of what that position is. I mean, you literally say in the next post that there are people here who want Ayton to be Anthony Davis RIGHT NOW. I assume that's "my ilk" but literally NO ONE HAS EVER SAID ANYTHING LIKE THAT. OR IMPLIED.

Can you back that lie up with posts of people saying he should be playing like Anthony Davis RIGHT NOW? Or even one that implies or intimates as such?

If not... STOP LYING.

But that’s your MO a lot of the time anyway. You’re crying even more than normal.

Lol... more lying... from the guy who cried like a baby last week after completely creating a ridiculously imaginary claim that LVG had flat out called you a racist... which literally never happened, nor did anyone think even came close to happening or was implied.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

30 3s
30 assist
30 free throws

That’s his “system” it’s a motion offense

We don’t come close in any of those. Except jacking up, and missing, the 3’s.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think it’s annoying that some on this forum have formed cliques and there are people that try to group people together to attack them all or something.

It’s something that started this season but it should stop imo.

The whole “you and your ilk” and “you and your group” or whatever thing is pretty weak imo.

There’s only one “ilk” and one group here...Suns fans. That’s it.

It’s almost as annoying as the whole “Ayton fanboys” and “Doncic fanboys” crap that people throw out because they can’t acknowledge the talent in both players.

I don’t think people have formed cliques. I think some people lump groups of us together in attempts to generalize about, and miscast, us.

For instance, I don’t scapegoat Ayton. I breakdown his negatives. But I’ve never even suggested he is the reason for this season’s putridity. A contributing factor? Sure. But we’ve talked about the myriad other contributing factors as well . . . some to death. But it’s easier to lump anyone who dares speak negatively about any aspect of ayton’s game together and throw generalizations than it is to address specific points being discussed.

 

[Hoop Head]

I can see how an outsider might think there are cliques but I don't believe there are any. I think part of the issue is those who do point out negatives in Ayton's game are a little slower to blame Igor for this seasons issues, while those who sing Ayton's praises and call for him to have a bigger role also bash Igor at every opportunity. So it looks like there are cliques because you see 3 or 4 posters in agreement and then 3-4 in opposition on most topics but if more was discussed than why Igor sucks or what Ayton needs to do to dominate you would see different people on different sides of those discussions. Like if we talked seriously about trading Booker, I don't think we'd be split in the same groups as far as the blame Igor crowd. I'm not advocating that Booker be traded, I'm just using that as an example.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think it’s annoying that some on this forum have formed cliques and there are people that try to group people together to attack them all or something.

It’s something that started this season but it should stop imo.

The whole “you and your ilk” and “you and your group” or whatever thing is pretty weak imo.

There’s only one “ilk” and one group here...Suns fans. That’s it.

It’s almost as annoying as the whole “Ayton fanboys” and “Doncic fanboys” crap that people throw out because they can’t acknowledge the talent in both players.

If I recall correctly the terminology "ilk" was only used one evening during a loss to the Nuggets on December 29th.

It was mostly used as a pun to describe the negativity being produced in that one particular game. I don't remember any names being used.

Unfortunately until it was used again today, I thought it was a thing of the past.

There is absolutely no room for cliques and I don't think there are any.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I can see how an outsider might think there are cliques but I don't believe there are any. I think part of the issue is those who do point out negatives in Ayton's game are a little slower to blame Igor for this seasons issues, while those who sign Ayton's praises and call for him to have a bigger role also bash Igor at every opportunity. So it looks like there are clicks because you see 3 or 4 posters in agreement and then 3-4 in opposition on most topics but if more was discussed than why Igor sucks or what Ayton needs to do to dominate you would see different people on different sides of those discussions. Like if we talked seriously about trading Booker, I don't think we'd be split in the same groups as far as the blame Igor crowd. I'm not advocating that Booker be traded, I'm just using that as an example.

I don't know about others but I really feel I'm somewhere in the middle on most of the topics here of late but I'm frequently being lumped into one side or the other (sometimes both). I like Ayton, I think he's performing like a good rookie with a very promising future. But I think like most 20 year old rookies he's a long ways from being able to help this team win consistently.

And I like what little I know of Koko in the past but I've seen nothing from this team (except for a few excellent defensive performances) that says he can coach this group. But I'm also not comfortable with putting him in the problem category as I'm unable to tell what is poor coaching as opposed to roster construction.

Another hot topic that might seem to have created cliques here has been the play of Booker. I'm very disappointed with Devin's performance this season which might put me in one camp but most of what bothers me about his play this season is position and injury related so I'm also at odds with the "he's overrated or we should trade him now" groups.