Suns @ Hawks 2-23-19

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You’re older so maybe you remember but why did Charlotte breakup that Mourning-LJ-Gill core?

I don’t recall the reason for shipping out Gill (he was one of my favorite players coming out of Illinois. But if I recall correctly I think mourning or LJ slept with with the others girlfriend, or that was the rumor at the time.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Well, I was certainly including you when I later said that there are probably a half dozen posters here that believe he is overrated and/or should be traded. You have suggested both several times and you may even be right. But while his efficiency isn't where we want it, there are very good reasons for it namely that he's been playing injured and out of position. Even still though, his true shooting percentage is .570 which really is not horrible, especially since he so rarely gets fully open or single covered. Klay Thompson, for example, even though he's surrounded by tremendous players, is at .568.

If I were going to rip Booker, it would be for time missed and time playing when he shouldn't because of injury limitations. And then I'd go after him for his absurd turnovers and his referee confrontations. I know that's probably him just trying to be a leader and sticking up for his teammates but he's too invested in it. He needs to calm down, shut up, and just play basketball for awhile. But I'd also point out that even with his shortcomings he's putting up positive numbers that are almost unheard of for a 22 year old.

I am not advocating trading Booker as an answer to any problems. I do not think he should be untouchable though. There are certain circumstances in which I would consider it. But I think almost everyone else on this board would think that too.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I'm wondering what you saw that made you think of Embiid in the first place.

Most recently drafted young big. Comparisons made at draft time etc. I was not trying to be that nuanced as far as a comparison of game styles.

Ayton isn't really KAT either. He does not have KAT's shooting from outside.

 

[Chaplin]

Most recently drafted young big. Comparisons made at draft time etc. I was not trying to be that nuanced as far as a comparison of game styles.

Ayton isn't really KAT either. He does not have KAT's shooting from outside.

He doesn’t? I think he’s a great outside shooter. At least when I watch him. Unfortunately he takes too many because he spends half the time outside of the paint.

 

[GatorAZ]

I'm wondering what you saw that made you think of Embiid in the first place.

Lazy draft commentary by Billups. I think he also compared Jaren Jackson to Joakim Noah and Grayson Allen to Bobby Sura... Lol

 

[sunsfan88]

Most recently drafted young big. Comparisons made at draft time etc. I was not trying to be that nuanced as far as a comparison of game styles.

Ayton isn't really KAT either. He does not have KAT's shooting from outside.

Ayton compared himself to Shaq, not Embiid or KAT.

 

[GatorAZ]

Ayton compared himself to Shaq, not Embiid or KAT.

I think the Shaq/Kobe 2.0 stuff was more just silly pre-draft hype because he wanted to be drafted by the Suns. He said he patterns his game after Garnett. As young as he is maybe he only remembers him in Brooklyn.

 

[sunsfan88]

I think the Shaq/Kobe 2.0 stuff was more just silly pre-draft hype because he wanted to be drafted by the Suns. He said he patterns his game after Garnett. As young as he is maybe he only remembers him in Brooklyn.

Garnett was a tenacious defensive player and rarely was his motor ever questioned.

 

[Phrazbit]

I don't know how to judge anyone in this disaster.

Ayton is a young guy with zero direction or veteran leadership who has shown the ability to dominate on both ends but often coasts... but is he seemingly coasting because the team is awful at getting him involved?

Booker can take over games and be ruthless in the clutch. But he often tries to do too much and forces things... is that because we don't have another player who can be reliably counted on to even dribble the ball in the half court?

Jackson one game will look like the next Kawhi Leonard, the next 3 he looks like JR Smith after a handle or 2. Gotta say though, at least his effort is ALWAYS there, he may be killing us out there on a given night, but it's usually because he's trying too hard, I really don't want to trade him.

I tried to believe in Koko but at this point all I can say is that our first priority should be to hire a real GM and let them decide if Koko deserves a shot with a more coherent roster or if we should cut clean with a new coach.

The only thing I know for sure is that the rot comes from the top. Sarver is a terrible, terrible owner. Until he brings in some legit people to run the franchise (and refrains from trying to dominate their efforts) then I don't see how we rise to contention. Well... unless he sells the franchise... which would be great, but I think he really enjoys the ego stroke of being a sports owner, even though his own city loathes him.

Even if we get the #1 pick, draft Zion, use our cap space to sign a, at least serviceable, point guard, I expect that the Sarver/Jones combo will probably hire a clown like, Jones' buddy, Tyrone Lue to run the team... and we'll promptly piss away another season or 2 of what should be a golden era.

 

[Phrazbit]

It's like the Titantic, who's fault was that? The ship designer for a lack of boats and that cascade of failing bulkheads? The captain who seemed competent at a glance but went into a shell when things fell apart? The lookout who was too busy watching Leo make out with Kate Winslet to see the ice burg?

I dunno...

But I do know the owner of the ship insisted it couldn't be sunk, wanted it to go full speed ahead and then was one of the first to hop on a half filled life raft when things went to pot!

 

[AZCrazy]

The comparison to Robinson comes from Ayton's broad physical size, but so much of anyone's success as a professional comes from intellectual and emotional maturity. Robinson played four years of D1 college ball, then served in the Navy for two years. He came into the league in his mid 20's, a grown man in every way. Ayton is tall. He should only now be in the middle of his sophomore year in college. I can't stand what the league has done in bringing in these children a few months out of flinging boogers in high school and expecting professional aptitude.

I was a proponent of the rebuild and felt they held onto Nash too long before beginning it. You can have a team made up of all kids though. No way for that wheel to roll, as we are seeing. You need an even mix of youth and experience on the team.

Remember being disappointed a few years ago with consecutive 40-45 win seasons?

 

[Mainstreet]

Remember being disappointed a few years ago with consecutive 40-45 win seasons?

I remember when fans were disappointed with 50 win seasons.

 

[Ronin]

I remember when fans were disappointed with 50 win seasons.

50 and fade.

 

[taz02]

That was a lot better than 11 and fade......

 

[BC867]

Another hot topic that might seem to have created cliques here has been the play of Booker. I'm very disappointed with Devin's performance this season which might put me in one camp but most of what bothers me about his play this season is position and injury related so I'm also at odds with the "he's overrated or we should trade him now" groups.

I would change that to, "I understand Devin's performance this season having to play out of position at Point Guard."

While having no one anywhere near his efficiency at Shooting Guard. So he has to be that, too. Without a Point Guard to feed him.

Hence the constant double teams against him all season long.


Edit: In re-reading your post, I saw that you did clarify your position to include his playing out of position and related injuries.

I was criticized by others early on for posting that his injuries were the result of covering two positions. And the constant double teams that ensued.

It has certainly worn him down as you inferred.

 

[BC867]

I remember when fans were disappointed with 50 win seasons.

We weren't disappointed with the 50 win seasons.

We were disappointed with the lack of progress of taking the next step.

Not becoming a strong playoff team. Two finals appearances in a half century.

One of them a Cinderella season, when the rookie Alvan Adams had his best season.

When you get people's hopes up, don't be surprised --- when they get their hopes up.

Being a winning finesse team every season was one thing.

Never becoming a strong contender for the title was the disappointment.

And the feeling that, as GM, Jerry was satisfied for decades with 50-and-fade.

 

[taz02]

We would all be pretty happy with 50 wins next season.

 

[BC867]

We would all be pretty happy with 50 wins next season.

Indeed!

"You've come a long way, Baby."

For those of you too young to remember, that was a cigarette ad aimed at women during the rise of women's liberation.

Unfortunately, the Suns have come a long way

d
o
w
n
.

 

[Mainstreet]

50 and fade.

We were so hard to please.

Now look what has become of us.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

We were so hard to please.

Now look what has become of us.

I’m still that hard to please. A mere return to 50 and fade won’t appease me.

 

[Phrazbit]

I’m still that hard to please. A mere return to 50 and fade won’t appease me.

What if we won 60 and were foiled by bloody noses, BS suspensions and refs tied to the mob?

 

[AzStevenCal]

What if we won 60 and were foiled by bloody noses, BS suspensions and refs tied to the mob?

If it's the Anthill Mob, I'm okay with it.

 

[Phrazbit]

If it's the Anthill Mob, I'm okay with it.

I just had to look up the reference and was immediately kicking myself for not picking it up. Well done.

I often quote Dick Dastardly without even knowing it.

That said, I suspect the Ant Hill mob had more scruples than Donaghy.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

What if we won 60 and were foiled by bloody noses, BS suspensions and refs tied to the mob?

Well that’s difficult to overcome. I wouldn’t say I’m satisfied but I’m all-in in that scenario.