Suns' Hill now a 3-point threat

[PetryJr]

Unless they put Elson or Oberto on him and keep Duncan in the paint. Amare shooting 3's doesn't help it just makes our #1 ranked C a PF. People are saying criticizing Jermaine O'Neal for becoming a jump shooter and soft while Amare is going to start doing the same. This will also have a negative impact on our offensive rebounding with Amare on the perimeter instead of the paint. I am all for Diaw and Marion becoming 3 pt shooters because they are natural SF's.

First of all, even if they put Elson or Oberto on him, it's a good thing. The Spurs will have only one guy inside to contest shots instead of two. Duncan is a great defender, but without another big around, he becomes more vulnerable.

And it's not like Amaré will be camping at the three-point line the entire game. He's still going to spend most of the time playing inside. Offensive rebounding will only be a factor when he's actually outside, which probably won't happen more than 3 or 4 times a game.

 

[overseascardfan]

First of all, even if they put Elson or Oberto on him, it's a good thing. The Spurs will have only one guy inside to contest shots instead of two. Duncan is a great defender, but without another big around, he becomes more vulnerable.

And it's not like Amaré will be camping at the three-point line the entire game. He's still going to spend most of the time playing inside. Offensive rebounding will only be a factor when he's actually outside, which probably won't happen more than 3 or 4 times a game.

Actually Duncan is a great 1 on 1 defender, ask guys like Nash & Barbosa whose shots he alters when they take it in the paint also averages nearly 3 blocks a game for his career. The Suns are one of the worst rebounding teams in the league having Amare take 4 or 5 3's a game isn't going to help at all. Plus who knows how many 3's he'll take a game, he should add to his mid range game because he already is pretty much unstoppable on the offensive end.

 

[Sunsman44]

I don't like this article at all. At least, they could have made the title a little better.

Perhaps Paul Coro could have said: "Hill To Try To Become Better 3-Point Shooter."

I hate how it has already determined that this career 25% three-point-shooting 35-year-old is all of a sudden a 3-point-threat without having played a single regular season game for his new team.

Supposedly he just switched teams and after being a poor 3-point shooter for the entire decade he is all of a sudden a threat? LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sheer ridiculous. Sheer stupidity.

 

[ghillfan]

To say Grant has been "a poor 3-point shooter the entire decade" is not entirely accurate. The truth is he hasn't been a 3-point shooter at all (poor or otherwise) except for one season, his last in Detroit (not coincidentally his last completely healthy season before suffering the injury that derailed his career). That year he attempted 98 threes, by far a career high in attempts, and hit at a respectable 35% clip. Since then he's never attempted more than 13 in a season. He's spent entire off-seasons rehabbing instead of working on expanding his game, and not surprisingly reverted to his bread and butter, completely neglecting 3 point shooting. This year reportedly is the first in years where he has had an offseason to work on his game, and given the emphasis it is given on this team, I think it's reasonable to expect he can become a decent (if not great) shooter from that range.

 

[MonkeyMan22]

I'd be comfortable with 35% from the arc if he limits his attempts to say 3-5 attempts a game. We really need his mid range game and his ability to create, but if he can step back and hit that three with enough consistency to force defenders to respect that aspect of his game then it does nothing but benefit the team. Its better to work on it now then in June.

MM

 

[PetryJr]

Actually Duncan is a great 1 on 1 defender, ask guys like Nash & Barbosa whose shots he alters when they take it in the paint also averages nearly 3 blocks a game for his career. The Suns are one of the worst rebounding teams in the league having Amare take 4 or 5 3's a game isn't going to help at all. Plus who knows how many 3's he'll take a game, he should add to his mid range game because he already is pretty much unstoppable on the offensive end.

He might be a great 1-on-1 defender, but in this situation he won't be guarding Nash, Barbosa or Hill 1-on-1. Most of the time, he'll have to come from the weakside to block shots, so his 1-on-1 defense really isn't that relevant here. You're still not addressing what I said about him becoming more vulnerable without another big man around the basket to help him out. Of course Duncan will still alter shots and be a defensive force, but without the help of another big man, it's not going to be as easy for him.

Amaré's midrange shot is already above-average. His 3-point shot can open things up for the rest of the team, so I really don't see how it can be a negative thing (again, as long as he doesn't fall in love with it, and I really don't think he will).

 

[arwillan]

Actually Duncan is a great 1 on 1 defender, ask guys like Nash & Barbosa whose shots he alters when they take it in the paint also averages nearly 3 blocks a game for his career. The Suns are one of the worst rebounding teams in the league having Amare take 4 or 5 3's a game isn't going to help at all. Plus who knows how many 3's he'll take a game, he should add to his mid range game because he already is pretty much unstoppable on the offensive end.

amare wont be taking 4 or 5 3's a game. he said he wants to make 50 of them in the season, meaning less than one a game

 

[overseascardfan]

amare wont be taking 4 or 5 3's a game. he said he wants to make 50 of them in the season, meaning less than one a game

What is he ends up shooting 25% then he is going to need some attempts to get to that 50.

 

[arwillan]

What is he ends up shooting 25% then he is going to need some attempts to get to that 50.

uhhh if he only shoots 25%, he wont be shooting them at all. the last person to do something like that was charles barkley and it was still stupid then. people who shoot 25% from 3 dont take 320-400 3's a year, they just dont.

 

[PetryJr]

uhhh if he only shoots 25%, he wont be shooting them at all. the last person to do something like that was charles barkley and it was still stupid then. people who shoot 25% from 3 dont take 320-400 3's a year, they just dont.

Obviously. Amaré won't do anything that's going to make him look worse on offense.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Black Jesus does not take a 25% chance.

 

[Rab]

Anyone else tired of everyone on the Suns shooting 3's? Now Amare? I keep hoping this is bad dream, and I'll wake up and see Amare working on post moves, and his 15 ft jumper.

I wouldn't be the least upset if I never saw Grant Hill shoot a 3 this season. I wish our players would play to their strengths, and leave the 3's to the 3 point shooters. We have enough 3 point threats in Nash, LB, & Bell. We don't need to see Amare on the perimeter when he should be down low looking for the entry pass, or Grant Hill spotting up in the corner in transition when he should be slashing to the basket, doing what he does best.

I honestly don't see Amare taking a lot of 3's even though he says he wants to "make 50". Hill on the other hand has made a career of cutting and slashing to the hoop or pulling up from mid-range.

I'm probably overreacting a little, but I want these players to do what they do best, and improve on those things rather than developing a 3 point shot to fit a system.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Worst case scenario is Amare averages 1 attempt from the arc per game. Im ok with that. The world wont crumble when a player adds more ammo to their arsenal.

 

[PetryJr]

Anyone else tired of everyone on the Suns shooting 3's? Now Amare? I keep hoping this is bad dream, and I'll wake up and see Amare working on post moves, and his 15 ft jumper.

I wouldn't be the least upset if I never saw Grant Hill shoot a 3 this season. I wish our players would play to their strengths, and leave the 3's to the 3 point shooters. We have enough 3 point threats in Nash, LB, & Bell. We don't need to see Amare on the perimeter when he should be down low looking for the entry pass, or Grant Hill spotting up in the corner in transition when he should be slashing to the basket, doing what he does best.

I honestly don't see Amare taking a lot of 3's even though he says he wants to "make 50". Hill on the other hand has made a career of cutting and slashing to the hoop or pulling up from mid-range.

I'm probably overreacting a little, but I want these players to do what they do best, and improve on those things rather than developing a 3 point shot to fit a system.

Again, what is the problem with adding things to your game? It's not like Hill won't be a slasher anymore just because now he'll take some corner threes to keep the defense honest. Slashing to the basket and shooting from midrange are still going to be the major parts of his game, he's just adding a three-point shot that hopefully will keep opposing defenses from packing it in. That's just going to open up more opportunities for him and for his teammates.

With Amaré, I can see how the situation is controversial. But again, he's just adding another weapon, which could potentially make the Suns' offense even harder to stop. His 15-footer is already above-average for big men, and I doubt that's going to change. Yes, I'd like to see him working on post moves as well, but think about it for a second: as long as D'Antoni is the coach, the Suns won't rely on post up moves; they are going to rely on fast-breaks, three-pointers and face-up plays by their big man. So I don't see the problem with Amaré making the best out of this situation, and working on things he will actually be able to use.

 

[Mainstreet]

With Amaré, I can see how the situation is controversial. But again, he's just adding another weapon, which could potentially make the Suns' offense even harder to stop. His 15-footer is already above-average for big man, and I doubt that's going to change. Yes, I'd like to see him working on post moves as well, but think about it for a second: as long as D'Antoni is the coach, the Suns won't rely on post up moves; they are going to rely on fast-breaks, three-pointers and face-up plays by their big man. So I don't see the problem with Amaré making the best out of this situation, and working on things he will actually be able to use.

I agree with your thought. If I recall correctly there were several games last season where Amare could have won a game with a 3 point shot. If only for that reason, it's good for Amare to have this shot in his arsenal. Also he will be getting some clear looks at a 3 during the game because very few bigs can get out and cover him. However, I'm not looking at a steady diet of 3's from Amare.

 

[Chaplin]

The Suns don't RELY on the 3-point shot, but it is just another tool to use to produce wins. If we win by 2 or 3 points in a game, you better believe I'm glad we made that extra 3-pointer.

There is absolutely no reason to continually harp on 3-point shooting. Sure, we don't want Amare shooting 200 3-pointers this year, but if he becomes at least a marginal threat with it, then that will definitely work in our favor. Right now, Duncan, Camby, or whoever guards him can afford to play 3 feet off of him that far out. That's why Amare drives so much when he has that space. Those big men also cut off the lane, making guys like LB and Nash think twice about driving.

But if Amare becomes that threat, the age-old adage of pulling a big man away from the lane comes into play, opening up the floor for our smaller players. If Duncan now has to come 22 feet out from the basket, there is no way for him to discourage Nash or LB to drive to the hoop and score.

 

[Rab]

Again, what is the problem with adding things to your game? It's not like Hill won't be a slasher anymore just because now he'll take some corner threes to keep the defense honest. Slashing to the basket and shooting from midrange are still going to be the major parts of his game, he's just adding a three-point shot that hopefully will keep opposing defenses from packing it in. That's just going to open up more opportunities for him and for his teammates.

With Amaré, I can see how the situation is controversial. But again, he's just adding another weapon, which could potentially make the Suns' offense even harder to stop. His 15-footer is already above-average for big man, and I doubt that's going to change. Yes, I'd like to see him working on post moves as well, but think about it for a second: as long as D'Antoni is the coach, the Suns won't rely on post up moves; they are going to rely on fast-breaks, three-pointers and face-up plays by their big man. So I don't see the problem with Amaré making the best out of this situation, and working on things he will actually be able to use.

There is certainly nothing wrong with adding dimensions to your game. I agree there. The question is, are the Suns better off by becoming more of a jump shooting team? I guess I just get tired of living and dying by the jumpshot sometimes. When we're taken out of our fast break, running style, we rely on jumpshots too much. That's why it bothers me a little when I hear two of our best easy basket guys are going to be stepping out more and launching 3's.

You can make a case for Grant Hill. If he ends up shooting the 3 well consistenly without it affecting the strengths of his game, I will be okay with that, and I'll eat my words. Grant is smart enough to know when to shoot and when to drive. I will give him that. The 3 is an easy shot to fall in love with though.

I can't really see any case where it would be good for Amare to shoot 3's though, maybe a surprise inbounds play or something. I don't think it makes him any better, regardless of whether he's playing in DA's system or not. He's a great scorer down low, and that we need that more from him than a 3 point shot. You can tell Nash isn't too high on the idea when he's asked about it.

I don't think by any means this will make or break the Suns, and I'm not trying to be negative here. Sorry if it's coming off that way. I just think the Suns have enough 3 point weapons, and I get tired of hearing that everyone wants or is told to shoot 3's all the time.

 

[PetryJr]

I can't really see any case where it would be good for Amare to shoot 3's though, maybe a surprise inbounds play or something. I don't think it makes him any better, regardless of whether he's playing in DA's system or not. He's a great scorer down low, and that we need that more from him than a 3 point shot. You can tell Nash isn't too high on the idea when he's asked about it.

Well, I've already posted about it in this thread, but against the Spurs, for example, it could be really useful. It makes one of their big men come out and guard Amaré on the perimeter, making Duncan more vulnerable to drives by Barbosa, Hill and Nash. It will create more slashing opportunities for our guards, which would actually make our offense LESS predictable.

If you have no problem with him hitting a 15-footer, which is worth 2 points, what is the problem with him hitting a 22-footer from the corner, which is worth one more point?

It can also be used every once in a while when Diaw is on the floor. Boris would have more space to operate inside and that way the Amaré-Diaw combo could work better than last year.

Amaré will still be a great scorer down low, he's not going to become a three-point shooter and just forget about his inside game. But, when the opportunity arises, he'll be able to step out and make a three-pointer.

 

[Rab]

It makes one of their big men come out and guard Amaré on the perimeter, making Duncan more vulnerable to drives by Barbosa, Hill and Nash. It will create more slashing opportunities for our guards, which would actually make our offense LESS predictable.

See, this sounds good in theory to me, but I have no doubt that Pop will find a way around taking Duncan away from the basket, whether it's switching Oberto out on Amare, or running a zone that will keep Duncan down around the hoop. Maybe against other teams it could be effective, but the Spurs make the best adjustments against us no matter what we throw at them.

If you have no problem with him hitting a 15-footer, which is worth 2 points, what is the problem with him hitting a 22-footer from the corner, which is worth one more point?

Because I'm afraid he'll shy away from a much less risky 15 footer which he has proven he can hit consistently for a 22 footer from the corner that we're not so sure he can make consistently, so in turn we could be trading 2 points, for no points. It all hinges on how well he can really shoot them. It also takes Amare away from the glass on rebounds.

It can also be used every once in a while when Diaw is on the floor. Boris would have more space to operate inside and that way the Amaré-Diaw combo could work better than last year.

Again, this sounds good in theory, but if Amare is in the game with Diaw, I don't want to rely on Diaw down low with Amare hanging out on the wing or something. If you bring Amare to the elbow, or a little above, it would clear enough space for Diaw.

Amaré will still be a great scorer down low, he's not going to become a three-point shooter and just forget about his inside game. But, when the opportunity arises, he'll be able to step out and make a three-pointer.

I just don't want that opportunity to arise very often. If Amare wants to add something to his game, he could start with defense and proper boxing out technique.

 

[Cheesebeef]

anyone who thinks the Spurs will actually send a man at Amare shooting a three is gonna find themselves to be sorely mistaken. What would you rather have? Amare shooting a three or blowing past you for an and one. They'll let him shoot that all day long, never breaking from their defense, just like they let Marion shoot it.

 

[Rab]

anyone who thinks the Spurs will actually send a man at Amare shooting a three is gonna find themselves to be sorely mistaken. What would you rather have? Amare shooting a three or blowing past you for an and one. They'll let him shoot that all day long, never breaking from their defense, just like they let Marion shoot it.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[PetryJr]

See, this sounds good in theory to me, but I have no doubt that Pop will find a way around taking Duncan away from the basket, whether it's switching Oberto out on Amare, or running a zone that will keep Duncan down around the hoop. Maybe against other teams it could be effective, but the Spurs make the best adjustments against us no matter what we throw at them.

I'm not talking about moving Duncan away from the basket, because Duncan doesn't guard Amaré most of the time. I'm talking about moving the other big man (be it Elson or Oberto) away and leaving Duncan without help inside. Duncan is a great defender, but having another big man around to take the fouls and guard the basket alongside him helps him a lot.

Because I'm afraid he'll shy away from a much less risky 15 footer which he has proven he can hit consistently for a 22 footer from the corner that we're not so sure he can make consistently, so in turn we could be trading 2 points, for no points. It all hinges on how well he can really shoot them. It also takes Amare away from the glass on rebounds.

A 35% three-pointer is more efficient than a 50% 15-footer. If he can hit 35% of his threes, then we're adding points, not losing.

Again, this sounds good in theory, but if Amare is in the game with Diaw, I don't want to rely on Diaw down low with Amare hanging out on the wing or something. If you bring Amare to the elbow, or a little above, it would clear enough space for Diaw.

Not really, because it's from the elbow that Diaw starts his drives.

I just don't want that opportunity to arise very often. If Amare wants to add something to his game, he could start with defense and proper boxing out technique.

Yeah, I agree he should be working on that really hard. But I'm not going to blame him for working on something that could be helpful too.

 

[PetryJr]

anyone who thinks the Spurs will actually send a man at Amare shooting a three is gonna find themselves to be sorely mistaken. What would you rather have? Amare shooting a three or blowing past you for an and one. They'll let him shoot that all day long, never breaking from their defense, just like they let Marion shoot it.

The difference is that Amaré actually works on his game, and could possibly improve his shot to the point where they'll have to send their big man to cover him. And you make it seem like every time Amaré goes inside, he scores and is fouled. Not really. It happens, but most of the time he just scores 2 points, and he also turns the ball over a lot on his drives. If he can shoot between 35-40% from long range against them, the efficiency would be pretty similar.

 

[Chaplin]

Again, you guys aren't seeing the big picture. Of course right now nobody is going to send a big man at Amare at the 3-point line. The whole point of this argument is about what would happen IF Amare can actually start hitting them out there. IF that happens, then you better believe teams will be throwing big men at him.

 

[Rab]

I'm not talking about moving Duncan away from the basket, because Duncan doesn't guard Amaré most of the time. I'm talking about moving the other big man (be it Elson or Oberto) away and leaving Duncan without help inside. Duncan is a great defender, but having another big man around to take the fouls and guard the basket alongside him helps him a lot.

Even if other bigs leave Duncan by himself to jump at Amare or whoever, it won't make much of a difference IMO. Duncan is that good defensively. Just his presence down low makes a lot of our players change their shots. Plus you can't forget he never gets fouls called against him. The Spurs also rotate better than any other team in the league. There seems to always be someone there to help out. Like I said, they might get other teams to fall into this trap, but the Spurs, being our biggest hurdle, could still easily find ways to adapt.

A 35% three-pointer is more efficient than a 50% 15-footer. If he can hit 35% of his threes, then we're adding points, not losing.

35% is a lot to ask of Amare. If he shot 30% I'd be surprised.

Not really, because it's from the elbow that Diaw starts his drives.

Yeah, I guess you're right here. Still, that doesn't mean I want to see Amare in the corner for a kickout 3 when Diaw draws attention underneath the hoop, because we all know Diaw is a passive player.

Yeah, I agree he should be working on that really hard. But I'm not going to blame him for working on something that could be helpful too.

The main goal of every player should be finding ways to improve. I don't really knock him for wanting to add to his game, but I do think that there are more important holes in his game for him to plug up before he starts working on something like a 3 poont shot, ie: rebounding, defense, ball handling. If he could improve on those areas, he'll be a much bigger help to the team than if he adds a 3.