Suns hire Monty Williams

[1Sun]

Morant is already a year ahead of where those two were when they came into the league. Starting Young has been just fine. I think Tyler is fine as a veteran pg if Ja lands here. I would not go looking for another one. I would concentrate on the PF position.

For goodness sake, Tyler is NOT a point guard. WTF makes people keep saying we would be fine with him at the point???

Meanwhile, Morant might have had one more year in college, but both Young and Fox had far more experience against higher level competition in college, had far more consistent results in college than Ja, had far more development heading into college than Ja (who was a very lightly recruited very late bloomer), and had far more mature games than Ja heading into the NBA...and the Hawks and Kings were both horrendous in the rookie seasons of Young and Fox, anyway. Especially after the last two seasons, and with us FINALLY having some positive momentum, we can ill afford to have a season next season that mimics the Hawks from Young's rookie season or the Kings from Fox's rookie season...or worse...

 

[JCSunsfan]

That was my point. I think Trae Young was more ready to play entering the NBA. The same with Fox to a lesser degree.

I don't think the Suns can chance entering a third consecutive season without a known quantity at point guard taking nothing away from Morant.

If you want to start Tyler Johnson ahead of Morant until he proves ready, I can live with that. However, there is a fair chance Johnson might be traded although I would like to keep him.

And I am disagreeing. I believe Ja is every bit as much or more ready to play. He is a year ahead of those two in experience coming out.

 

[1Sun]

And I am disagreeing. I believe Ja is every bit as much or more ready to play. He is a year ahead of those two in experience coming out.

In time in college, yes. In pretty much every other aspect, not even close. Just two seasons ago, he was barely considered worthy of playing Division I College Basketball, and now you want him to start right away for an NBA franchise???

 

[Mainstreet]

And I am disagreeing. I believe Ja is every bit as much or more ready to play. He is a year ahead of those two in experience coming out.

I'm not sure two years of college gives Morant the upper hand. Let me put it another way, I don't want to rely on a rookie starter next season.

 

[Hoop Head]

I'm not sure two years of college gives Morant the upper hand. Let me put it another way, I don't want to rely on a rookie starter next season.

I'd agree with that if the Suns were drafting in the late lottery but when you're selecting in the top 3 or top 5, you want a player that should be ready to go and not a project. If a player can't start on day 1 then the reason should be that there is a quality veteran in front of them already. We shouldn't be looking to sign a veteran PG to start ahead of our #2 pick, if we get Ja. That helps lower the value of getting the #2 pick, IMO. Yes, he may turn into a great player with time but it also could be a problem in the near future if he shows he's ready to take over but you just brought in someone else to be a starter that you can't trade until mid December at the soonest. We can't afford to have shaky chemistry to start the year and adding a disgruntled vet who won't be starting like he was promised because our rookie PG is ready can create an easily avoidable locker room problem.

 

[1Sun]

I'd agree with that if the Suns were drafting in the late lottery but when you're selecting in the top 3 or top 5, you want a player that should be ready to go and not a project. If a player can't start on day 1 then the reason should be that there is a quality veteran in front of them already. We shouldn't be looking to sign a veteran PG to start ahead of our #2 pick, if we get Ja. That helps lower the value of getting the #2 pick, IMO. Yes, he may turn into a great player with time but it also could be a problem in the near future if he shows he's ready to take over but you just brought in someone else to be a starter that you can't trade until mid December at the soonest. We can't afford to have shaky chemistry to start the year and adding a disgruntled vet who won't be starting like he was promised because our rookie PG is ready can create an easily avoidable locker room problem.

All the more reason I would rather trade the pick for veteran help if it's not #1 and we can't pick Zion.

Even best case scenario, Ja is at least a year or two away from being able to start at the NBA level.

 

[Krangodnzr]

That was my point. I think Trae Young was more ready to play entering the NBA. The same with Fox to a lesser degree.

I don't think the Suns can chance entering a third consecutive season without a known quantity at point guard taking nothing away from Morant.

If you want to start Tyler Johnson ahead of Morant until he proves ready, I can live with that. However, there is a fair chance Johnson might be traded although I would like to keep him.

Fox wasnt as good as Morant was.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

That was my point. I think Trae Young was more ready to play entering the NBA. The same with Fox to a lesser degree.

I don't think the Suns can chance entering a third consecutive season without a known quantity at point guard taking nothing away from Morant.

If you want to start Tyler Johnson ahead of Morant until he proves ready, I can live with that. However, there is a fair chance Johnson might be traded although I would like to keep him.

I think Ja is further developed in terms of running a team than was fox coming into the league.

 

[1Sun]

Fox wasnt as good as Morant was.

You might want to look back at how both were rated heading into college and also compare their results against high level competition...

 

[1Sun]

I think Ja is further developed in terms of running a team than was fox coming into the league.

Not if you look at team results for both in college, not to mention style and steadiness of play.

At best, Ja is an extremely raw, inexperienced (against high level competition) and late blooming version of what Stephon Marbury was coming out of college.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'd agree with that if the Suns were drafting in the late lottery but when you're selecting in the top 3 or top 5, you want a player that should be ready to go and not a project. If a player can't start on day 1 then the reason should be that there is a quality veteran in front of them already. We shouldn't be looking to sign a veteran PG to start ahead of our #2 pick, if we get Ja. That helps lower the value of getting the #2 pick, IMO. Yes, he may turn into a great player with time but it also could be a problem in the near future if he shows he's ready to take over but you just brought in someone else to be a starter that you can't trade until mid December at the soonest. We can't afford to have shaky chemistry to start the year and adding a disgruntled vet who won't be starting like he was promised because our rookie PG is ready can create an easily avoidable locker room problem.

I wouldn't take points away from Morant if he is not ready to start but projects to be a starter down the road.

This draft class is not as strong as I would like. Beyond Zion, there is not guaranteed first year starter in this class.

I don't understand why it would hurt Morant or team chemistry if he learned behind a veteran. It's not worth the gamble not to have a veteran on the roster capable of starting. The Suns cannot afford to stumble out of the gate.

 

[Mainstreet]

Fox wasnt as good as Morant was.

I thought Fox was pretty good coming out of college and he played for a top program in Kentucky.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think Ja is further developed in terms of running a team than was fox coming into the league.

I sure hope Morant is ready but I wouldn't gamble on it. Fox has proven he was ready. Even Trae Young had growing pains.

All the above mentioned players could have fallen on their butt their first season.

 

[BC867]

Monty has a reputation for holding players accountable so I'm confident Morant would see some bench time if he wasn't playing well.

That would be a negative approach. Hold a rookie accountable and bench him if he is not playing well? At a position which runs the offense?

Wouldn't you rather see him develop confidence as he gets accustomed to the NBA, by not being expected to be a savior from the start?

That is why adding a veteran Point Guard would be essential to Ja's development.

 

[BC867]

I think Ja is further developed in terms of running a team than was fox coming into the league.

Comparing Ja to previous rookie Point Guards doesn't qualify him to be an NBA starting Point Guard without first learning about the league and working his way into it.

Especially considering the pressure that he would face on the Suns -- a team that has been dysfunctional at the Point Guard position for too long. A rookie would need a buffer.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Comparing Ja to previous rookie Point Guards doesn't qualify him to be an NBA starting Point Guard without first learning about the league and working his way into it.

Especially considering the pressure that he would face on the Suns -- a team that has been dysfunctional at the Point Guard position for too long. A rookie would need a buffer.

No, a rookie doesn’t “need” a buffer. Depends upon the rookie. But typically don’t know if they could use one until a season starts.

 

[AzStevenCal]

That would be a negative approach. Hold a rookie accountable and bench him if he is not playing well? At a position which runs the offense?

Wouldn't you rather see him develop confidence as he gets accustomed to the NBA, by not being expected to be a savior from the start?

That is why adding a veteran Point Guard would be essential to Ja's development.

Seriously? Sure, this is a softer NBA but that has always been one of the key tools in a Coaching toolbox. I don't mean yank him every time he messes up, that approach almost always fails. But you put him next to you if he gets carried away or when he makes certain kinds of errors and you teach him how to avoid it the next time. If you have to use the bench to motivate him, you probably will need a new PG soon anyway.

And I don't think we need our next point guard to be a savior. If we get healthy and find a real power forward, I'd be fine with pairing Booker and Johnson until we can find a better solution. We won't be as effective as we would with a real PG but half the teams in the league are looking for a better starter at that spot so unless we've figured out how to clone Steve Nash, we might not find the ideal solution right away.

 

[1Sun]

Will someone please answer WHY so many of you would be okay with starting Tyler Johnson out of position at the point?

 

[AzStevenCal]

Will someone please answer WHY so many of you would be okay with starting Tyler Johnson out of position at the point?

Because we watched the games. Because there are two ends of the court and he's much better on one end than he is limited on the other. And because we have no better options right now. If one falls into our lap, great, but we played pretty well in that very short stretch where he played alongside Booker and the rest of our team was mostly healthy.

Johnson is far from the ideal solution but he has a great turnover to assist ratio, defends on ball very well and rarely does stupid stuff out there. If he could shoot and score consistently he'd almost be worth that absurd contract of his.

 

[1Sun]

Because we watched the games. Because there are two ends of the court and he's much better on one end than he is limited on the other. And because we have no better options right now. If one falls into our lap, great, but we played pretty well in that very short stretch where he played alongside Booker and the rest of our team was mostly healthy.

Johnson is far from the ideal solution but he has a great turnover to assist ratio, defends on ball very well and rarely does stupid stuff out there. If he could shoot and score consistently he'd almost be worth that absurd contract of his.

So you choose to ignore completely that he is a black hole on offense, taking bad shot after bad shot, never passing or involving his teammates and pretty much single-handedly shutting down the offense (to the point we are forced to return to Point Book in order to have any semblance of an offense)?

Yes, he can defend alright (though he is not the superior defender you claim he is), and he doesn't turn the ball over much (but only because he jacks up contested 30-footers when teammates are wide open instead of throwing the ball away, so the turnover statistic is artificially down, and the assist-to-turnover ratio is artificially inflated, since he averages very few assists as well), but that does not make him a point guard, let alone a capable NBA starting point guard.

If we stick with playing Tyler Johnson out of position at point guard, then our effort in hiring Monty Williams was wasted, and we might as well trade Devin Booker for a point guard, because I guarantee you Booker will not put up with more of being forced to play out of position as the de facto point guard, which is precisely what happened in all of the games with Tyler Johnson here, which I did indeed watch.

Literally any free agent who is an actual point guard, save perhaps Terry Rozier, would be a better option than Tyler Johnson.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Seriously? Sure, this is a softer NBA but that has always been one of the key tools in a Coaching toolbox. I don't mean yank him every time he messes up, that approach almost always fails. But you put him next to you if he gets carried away or when he makes certain kinds of errors and you teach him how to avoid it the next time. If you have to use the bench to motivate him, you probably will need a new PG soon anyway.

And I don't think we need our next point guard to be a savior. If we get healthy and find a real power forward, I'd be fine with pairing Booker and Johnson until we can find a better solution. We won't be as effective as we would with a real PG but half the teams in the league are looking for a better starter at that spot so unless we've figured out how to clone Steve Nash, we might not find the ideal solution right away.

You are right. Monty is known for pulling rookies when they do not do the tight thing. It’s holding them accountable and it helps them develop.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Because we watched the games. Because there are two ends of the court and he's much better on one end than he is limited on the other. And because we have no better options right now. If one falls into our lap, great, but we played pretty well in that very short stretch where he played alongside Booker and the rest of our team was mostly healthy.

Johnson is far from the ideal solution but he has a great turnover to assist ratio, defends on ball very well and rarely does stupid stuff out there. If he could shoot and score consistently he'd almost be worth that absurd contract of his.

He is a really nice complement to Booker.

If we end up with the third pick and cannot get Ja RJ “The Godson” Barrett is being now touted as a distributor after his performance in the big dance.

 

[1Sun]

He is an okay back-up to Booker.

If we end up with the third pick and cannot get Ja RJ “The Godson” Barrett is being now touted as a distributor after his performance in the big dance.

FIFY.

 

[AzStevenCal]

So you choose to ignore completely that he is a black hole on offense, taking bad shot after bad shot, never passing and involving his teammates and pretty much single-handedly shutting down the offense?

Yes, he can defend alright (though he is not the superior defender you claim he is), and he doesn't turn the ball over much (but only because he jacks up contested 30-footers when teammates are wide open instead of throwing the ball away, so the turnover statistic is artificially down, and the assist-to-turnover ratio is artificially inflated, since he averages very few assists as well), but that does not make him a point guard, let alone a capable NBA starting point guard.

If we stick with playing Tyler Johnson out of position at point guard, then our effort in hiring Monty Williams was wasted, and we might as well trade Devin Booker for a point guard, because I guarantee you Booker will not put up with more of being forced to play out of position as the de facto point guard, which is precisely what happened in all of the games with Tyler Johnson here, which I did indeed watch.

Literally any free agent who is an actual point guard, save perhaps Terry Rozier, would be a better option than Tyler Johnson.

I can't tell whether you're lying or just taking hyperbole to a new level but regardless, try defending your bolded comments. BTW, it cannot be done.

 

[1Sun]

I can't tell whether you're lying or just taking hyperbole to a new level but regardless, try defending your bolded comments. BTW, it cannot be done.

I suggest you go back and watch the games.

As for the averaging very few assists:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/johnsty01.html

2.9 assists last year, 2.5 career assist average. Pathetic for a supposed point guard (though merely slightly below average for a shooting guard).