Suns @ Jazz game thread 2-14-18

[Praxis]

We will match the best offer for him, most likely.

 

[Mainstreet]

We will match the best offer for him, most likely.

And an incentive to get a haircut.

 

[Hoop Head]

Hope that haircut comes before the year is over. They can offer him a private barber as part of his next contract though.

 

[elindholm]

I don't know how you're supposed to defend the Jazz. Gobert sticks his arms out whenever he sets a screen, and then he moves and grabs as soon as contact is made, almost every time. He's already huge, but when he's allowed to do that, he has the effective size of three people. Almost all of the Jazz offense is based on defenses scrambling to work around Gobert's illegal screens.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

We'll see how he does through the rest of the season but he'll only have around 25 games with the Suns, so paying him based on that stretch would be unwise since it's quite different than how he's played his first 3 and 1/2 years in the league.

I think a 26 game stretch is a pretty good sample size. Not enough to offer a crazy contract but if he sustains this play a prettt good one.

 

[Finito]

Payton really looking like the goods. His 9th career triple double that's pretty impressive.

His numbers have gone up every year no idea why they soured on him in Orlando but then again they gave up on Oladipo

 

[ArizonaSportsFan]

I don't know how you're supposed to defend the Jazz. Gobert sticks his arms out whenever he sets a screen, and then he moves and grabs as soon as contact is made, almost every time. He's already huge, but when he's allowed to do that, he has the effective size of three people. Almost all of the Jazz offense is based on defenses scrambling to work around Gobert's illegal screens.

Exactly this! And it drives me nuts .every screen he sets is a dynamic screen. Would not be hard to shoot with that screen.

 

[Mainstreet]

Payton really looking like the goods. His 9th career triple double that's pretty impressive.

His numbers have gone up every year no idea why they soured on him in Orlando but then again they gave up on Oladipo

And Tobias Harris.

 

[Hoop Head]

The Magic may be giving up on Aaron Gordon also, at least that was the word during the trade deadline. He'll be a RFA this summer and if someone offers him the max or a sizable contract they may decide to let him leave. They're not in great shape financially because of ridiculous contracts given to Evan Fournier and Bismack Biyombo. They might not be able to afford to keep Gordon on a max contract.

 

[BC867]

I hope the Suns realize that any NBA level PG would be playing close to the level Payton is come contract time and they don't overpay him. I'm a little worried about that. He's worth keeping around but at a fair rate, not based on the 20 and 10 he's averaging here.

What would you base it on? What does a good PG have to do to make you want to pay him?

Exactly, Chap. We finally have a stop to the revolving door at Point Guard (including expecting Booker to be our only consistent -- and leading -- scorer plus taking on the responsibility of being our Point Guard) and Payton finishing with a triple double (with less points than previously, in deference to the return of Booker at Shooting Guard), and Poop Head is looking for a reason to not take that seriously? Why? Because he has an eccentric hairdo?

As I posted a few days ago, Payton's potential also means that we do not have to choose between drafting a Point Guard or Center. Now, we just need a Center. Bender is miles away from growing into that role. And probably never becoming the post defender that this team needs.

 

[pokerface]

Exactly, Chap. We finally have a stop to the revolving door at Point Guard (including expecting Booker to be our only consistent -- and leading -- scorer plus taking on the responsibility of being our Point Guard) and Payton finishing with a triple double (the lowest being points, in deference to the return of Booker at Shooting Guard), and Poop Head is looking for a reason to not take that seriously? Why? Because he has an eccentric hairdo?

I think poop (and others) are cautious because Payton was practically given away by his former team and his sample size of games is small. There is a feeling of "this is too good to be true".

As I posted a few days ago, Payton's potential also means that we do not have to choose between drafting a Point Guard or Center. Now, we just need a Center. Bender is miles away from growing into that role. And probably never becoming the post defender that this team needs.

I look at it that way that if Payton is near the player we want him to be then drafting a center is all the easier now.

 

[Hoop Head]

Exactly, Chap. We finally have a stop to the revolving door at Point Guard (including expecting Booker to be our only consistent -- and leading -- scorer plus taking on the responsibility of being our Point Guard) and Payton finishing with a triple double (the lowest being points, in deference to the return of Booker at Shooting Guard), and Poop Head is looking for a reason to not take that seriously? Why? Because he has an eccentric hairdo?

As I posted a few days ago, Payton's potential also means that we do not have to choose between drafting a Point Guard or Center. Now, we just need a Center. Bender is miles away from growing into that role. And probably never becoming the post defender that this team needs.

I didn't say I wanted him to be replaced or that I didn't want him resigned, I said I hope the Suns don't overpay him to retain him. Getting a triple double is nice and he's played well since joining the team but if they blow all of their cap space resigning him that won't help the team improve this offseason. His numbers are good but they haven't led to wins, which should come into play when determining his salary.

They need to be smart and patient with him this summer. Allow another team to set his market value since he's a restricted free agent. If he doesn't get a sizable offer they don't need to throw it out there themselves. If they pay him like Warren that's fine but any more than that would be questionable and could hurt them going forward. They don't need to bid against themselves like they did when they resigned Bledsoe and Knight to near max contracts despite neither getting offers on the open market.

 

[Suns_fan69]

I don't know how you're supposed to defend the Jazz. Gobert sticks his arms out whenever he sets a screen, and then he moves and grabs as soon as contact is made, almost every time. He's already huge, but when he's allowed to do that, he has the effective size of three people. Almost all of the Jazz offense is based on defenses scrambling to work around Gobert's illegal screens.

Oh god I got irrationally angry at that a number of times. Here's a prime example, on the dagger 3 by Mitchell. Just watch that screen:

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[elindholm]

Oh god I got irrationally angry at that a number of times. Here's a prime example, on the dagger 3 by Mitchell. Just watch that screen:

Yeah, exactly. He's literally holding Payton by the waist and following him across the floor. What are you supposed to do?

 

[Suns_fan69]

The kicker of it is that Payton was still able to get a pretty good contest in, even having to go an extra 3-4 feet around Gobert. Not saying the outcome of the game would have changed, but that should have been an offensive foul/turnover.

 

[95pro]

The kicker of it is that Payton was still able to get a pretty good contest in, even having to go an extra 3-4 feet around Gobert. Not saying the outcome of the game would have changed, but that should have been an offensive foul/turnover.

That's what I noticed too and that's what separates Payton from any other guard we've had in recent memory. His quickness and ability to cover ground is great, really shows when he penetrates as well as on the defensive end.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Oh god I got irrationally angry at that a number of times. Here's a prime example, on the dagger 3 by Mitchell. Just watch that screen:

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This is why I regularly think of NBA refs to be the worst officials I have seen in all the major sports. You can see that one ref has the exact same angle of the play as the camera and he doesn't see that? It's pretty lame..

 

[leclerc]

They showed good effort in the game. Good to see Booker again but I would rather have rested him this game also. Great game by Jackson. Need more cuts by him and TJ. Maybe next game without Goober on the floor. Wouldn't hurt if Payton was more aggressive looking for his own drive though.

Let's keep building on what looks to be a core of Booker, Payton, Jackson, Warren, Bender. Get some chemistry with them playing 30+ mpg.

 

[SirStefan32]

They showed good effort in the game. Good to see Booker again but I would rather have rested him this game also. Great game by Jackson. Need more cuts by him and TJ. Maybe next game without Goober on the floor. Wouldn't hurt if Payton was more aggressive looking for his own drive though.

Let's keep building on what looks to be a core of Booker, Payton, Jackson, Warren, Bender. Get some chemistry with them playing 30+ mpg.

I'll add forcing Bender to take ten shots every game. That kid can play, but he is so passive. Coach should tell him he is not playing if he doesn't take ten shots every game.

 

[elindholm]

I'll add forcing Bender to take ten shots every game. That kid can play, but he is so passive. Coach should tell him he is not playing if he doesn't take ten shots every game.

Good grief, why not instruct him to commit five turnovers a game instead? Part of his allegedly high BBIQ is not forcing things. He doesn't shoot because, to his credit, he recognizes he's not a good offensive option.

Tell him that each game he has to make at least ten hard cuts through the lane, and ten physical box-outs on the defensive glass, and now we're getting somewhere.

 

[Hoop Head]

I don't think it would benefit Bender if he's given instructions to shoot X amount of times a game. I think the best thing for his development would be to send him to the G-League with instructions that the offense is to run through him. Build up his confidence that way and it might carry over back to the NBA. He needs to be more aggressive offensively and look to score more often but telling him to shoot so many times may just force him to make bad decisions.

 

[JS22]

Oh god I got irrationally angry at that a number of times. Here's a prime example, on the dagger 3 by Mitchell. Just watch that screen:

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Wow that is horrible.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Good grief, why not instruct him to commit five turnovers a game instead? Part of his allegedly high BBIQ is not forcing things. He doesn't shoot because, to his credit, he recognizes he's not a good offensive option.

Tell him that each game he has to make at least ten hard cuts through the lane, and ten physical box-outs on the defensive glass, and now we're getting somewhere.

Agreed... and if you have to FORCE the kid to play, that’s a red flag that he just can’t play. Or doesn’t have the confidence to do so at a consistent basis.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Good grief, why not instruct him to commit five turnovers a game instead? Part of his allegedly high BBIQ is not forcing things. He doesn't shoot because, to his credit, he recognizes he's not a good offensive option.

Tell him that each game he has to make at least ten hard cuts through the lane, and ten physical box-outs on the defensive glass, and now we're getting somewhere.

He isn't passing up opportunities because it was the better option. He is passing up good opportunities because he is passive and timid. He needs to learn that it is okay to force things every once in a while even if it leads to a miss or turnover. He needs to be a little more selfish and that will lead to being more aggressive and will in turn lead to more positive results.

 

[BC867]

He isn't passing up opportunities because it was the better option. He is passing up good opportunities because he is passive and timid. He needs to learn that it is okay to force things every once in a while even if it leads to a miss or turnover. He needs to be a little more selfish and that will lead to being more aggressive and will in turn lead to more positive results.

Suns fans sure set the bar high. Pin our hopes in the post on a skinny 7-footer who recognizes he's not a good offensive option. Passive and timid. He needs to be a little more selfish.

Is that really the criteria for a player winning a starting role and helping lead the Suns to the next step?