Suns @ Jazz

[Sunburn]

This team is second in the NBA in turnovers, behind only Philadelphia, one of the worst teams in history. The 76ers are the youngest team in the NBA with an average age of 22.7 years. The Suns rank 10th youngest in the NBA, with an average of 25.8 years. The Suns have accumulated the 7th most technical fouls this season, the 76ers the eighth fewest. Discipline and accountability are lacking here.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/turnovers-per-game

http://en.hispanosnba.com/teams/comparison

https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/technical-fouls-per-game

 

[Hoop Head]

Booker and Leuer were -20 and -24 respectively, Knight and Morris were +1 and +10. Easy to see why Jeff played them longer.

You might have something with the +/- stat except that Bledsoe's was -36 and still saw 26 minutes. Hornacek's inability to manage a rotation has to be frustrating to the players. When do you think they were aware of the starting lineup considering it wasn't until just before the game that Coro said the starting 5 was changing on twitter. They played all 12 guys in the first half. They started the 2nd half with the new starters and swapped them out in only 3 minutes. Another thing that is questionable is how Coro noted how quick they came back out during halftime. That seems like a team who isn't listening to it's coach anymore, to me.

https://twitter.com/paulcoro/status/679137910315175937

 

[GatorAZ]

So, 13th pick again?

 

[Hoop Head]

Here is a quote from Tucker after the Jazz game. I think it says a lot without throwing anyone specifically under the bus. I know before his DUI and disciplinary issues Tucker was thought to be a leader of sorts on this team.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/spor...suns-fall-into-old-habits-loss-jazz/77720690/

“I just work here, man,” Tucker said. “Just doing whatever I’m told. It’s not a regular thing but if they feel like changing me is going to help us win, then I’m all for it. I have to adjust and figure out another way like I always do. I don’t know what we’re trying to do, period. Whatever they want me to do as a Phoenix Sun, I’ll do. I don’t know anything right now. I’m just going out there and playing as hard as I can.”

 

[Phrazbit]

So, 13th pick again?

The East is actually stronger than the west so far, right now our record has us closer to picking 5th than 13th.

Here is a quote from Tucker after the Jazz game. I think it says a lot without throwing anyone specifically under the bus. I know before his DUI and disciplinary issues Tucker was thought to be a leader of sorts on this team.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/spor...suns-fall-into-old-habits-loss-jazz/77720690/

That is pretty damning.

Its sad, the team was truly playing very very well during the month of November and being undone late in games by some bizarre substitution patterns. Now things appear to have gone totally off the rails.

Opening night Hornacek seemed to use some crazy preseason style rotation... and that has held true as the season as worn on, with disastrous consequences.

 

[hcsilla]

Maybe it's just the altitude or he hung out at one of those famous Salt Lake City all night strip clubs?

 

[Evil Ash]

Wait a minute. Hasn't everyone wanted Booker Leuer and warren to start?

Warren starting is a good move as PJ Tucker seems to be going backwards in terms of productivity.

Leuer is the best of a mediocre bunch at the PF position. Nobody is taking this job.

Booker is nowhere near ready but "our 2 pg is the cause of our problems" or whatever crap people here will come up with.

 

[slinslin]

Not exactly sure what Booker has done recently to now start. He is still a project.

Especially considering how Goodwin is glued to the bench despite being productive and leading the team in points per shot.

Why is Markieff back in at the cost of reducing our centers minutes?

Hornacek has no plan, this much is obvious.

 

[Evil Ash]

Not exactly sure what Booker has done recently to now start. He is still a project.

Especially considering how Goodwin is glued to the bench despite being productive and leading the team in points per shot.

Why is Markieff back in at the cost of reducing our centers minutes?

Hornacek has no plan, this much is obvious.

Please tell me this a joke post.

 

[slinslin]

No it is not, look at the game log. When Archie plays he has been productive and effective.

Usually teams reward this with playing time, the Suns do not. Instead Price plays.

Goodwin is #7 in PER on this team, ahead of Booker, Chandler, Price, Morris, Tucker and Weems.

Yet Hornacek keeps playing Price, Morris, Tucker..

Markieff Morris has negative Win Shares. Why is he playing again, he is obviously not giving a damn.

Bledsoe had 2 bad games now but him and Warren are the only bright spots.

Chandler 4.7ppg, Tucker 5.7ppg, Leuer 8.7ppg.

When Jon Leuer is your best offensive option outside of Brandon Knight that must be pretty tough for Bledsoe especially given the way Knight plays.

 

[Evil Ash]

No it is not, look at the game log. When Archie plays he has been productive and effective.

Usually teams reward this with playing time, the Suns do not. Instead Price plays.

Goodwin is #7 in PER on this team, ahead of Booker, Chandler, Price, Morris, Tucker and Weems.

Yet Hornacek keeps playing Price, Morris, Tucker..

Markieff Morris has negative Win Shares. Why is he playing again, he is obviously not giving a damn.

Bledsoe had 2 bad games now but him and Warren are the only bright spots.

Chandler 4.7ppg, Tucker 5.7ppg, Leuer 8.7ppg.

When Jon Leuer is your best offensive option outside of Brandon Knight that must be pretty tough for Bledsoe especially given the way Knight plays.

I'll do you one better. I watched the game and all games this season. Goodwin has basically zero outside game, regularly makes bad decisions on offense, has ZERO ball-handling skills (the main reason he gets little playing time - he's a walking turnover) and gets burned a lot on defense.

He usually puts up stats in garbage time and thats about it. Would I rather have him play than Ronnie Price? Yeah but not by much

 

[Hoop Head]

Goodwin sitting on the bench is one of the few things I'll agree with Hornacek doing this season. When he has played he's played poorly and even in garbage time he's a black hole. I think Jeff gave up on Weems awfully quick based on the hype surrounding him in the offseason, that he'd be a perfect Green replacement for instant offense off of the bench playing the 2 & 3. Goodwin would probably be better served assigned to the D-League but I'm not sure if they're able to anymore. I thought I read a while back that players can only be sent down in their first 2 seasons and after that it's the players choice. I could see Goodwin declining an assignment though and getting upset over being asked, causing more chemistry/locker room issues.

 

[BillsCarnage]

That is pretty damning.

Yup. If the other players have that attitude they've checked out and the team is done.

 

[sunsfan88]

Here is a quote from Tucker after the Jazz game. I think it says a lot without throwing anyone specifically under the bus. I know before his DUI and disciplinary issues Tucker was thought to be a leader of sorts on this team.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/spor...suns-fall-into-old-habits-loss-jazz/77720690/

Wow. And yet Suns still refuse to make any changes to the coaching.

Give props to Daryl Morey, his team was a cluster **** and he made a coaching change and now their back to being a playoff team record wise. Where as Suns management continues to sit on their hands.

 

[StreetTruckinTitan]

Here is a quote from Tucker after the Jazz game. I think it says a lot without throwing anyone specifically under the bus. I know before his DUI and disciplinary issues Tucker was thought to be a leader of sorts on this team.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/spor...suns-fall-into-old-habits-loss-jazz/77720690/

When PJ, the veteran leader of this team speaks publicly about his frustrations on this team you know its pretty bad. PJs been on a lot of teams, both over seas and NBA. So when he doesnt even know what the coach is doing or the direction of this team, its quite alarming. Its obvious to everyone the coaching staff has lost this team and it wont get any better until theres a coaching change with a new direction.

 

[elindholm]

When PJ, the veteran leader of this team speaks publicly about his frustrations on this team you know its pretty bad. PJs been on a lot of teams, both over seas and NBA.

Tucker had played a grand total of 83 minutes in the NBA before joining the Suns. I wouldn't get too carried away with his "veteran leader" role. He clawed his way back into the league as an overachieving D-and-3 hustle guy, but he has always been defined more by his weaknesses than by his strengths. Especially with his drinking problem out in the open, I seriously doubt that too many of his teammates look up to him as a role model.

 

[Chaplin]

PJ Tucker should have very little leeway--veteran leader? Yeah, right now, he's a veteran leader like Pat Burke or Chris Dudley were "veteran leaders". Put up or shut up, PJ. Instead of airing grievances to the media and fickle fans, why don't you be that "leader" everyone thinks you are and fix the locker room? And while you're at it, why don't you play like an NBA player and not an NBDL castoff?

 

[JCSunsfan]

When PJ, the veteran leader of this team speaks publicly about his frustrations on this team you know its pretty bad. PJs been on a lot of teams, both over seas and NBA. So when he doesnt even know what the coach is doing or the direction of this team, its quite alarming. Its obvious to everyone the coaching staff has lost this team and it wont get any better until theres a coaching change with a new direction.

PJ Tucker just lost his starting job. He is panicking and begging like a pathetic ex.

"I just didn't know what you wanted from me? Pleeeeeeeeeez. I will always love you more. I will work harder than anyone else. You have just misunderstood me. I wuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuv youuuuuuuuuuuuu!"

Think about what he is saying. He doesn't know what is expected of him? Play smart. Move the ball. Take good shots. Play hard nosed defense. Rebound the freaking ball!

None of which he has been doing with any consistency. No one should have to tell him that.

 

[devilalum]

I was going to write about the pathetic state of this team but then I remembered that I don't currently care.

I can't remember the last rime I felt so apethetic about the Suns.

sent from a fone

 

[leclerc]

Hallelujah! Booker and Warren in the starting five.

Even better if they had played starters minutes but hey...

Hope they ride this mess out. It's a long season. A (big) trade or a coaching change could help. Keef must go. Maybe Tucker also. There must be a solid PF out there somewhere.

Goodwin has been decent these last few games. Doesn't really matter because he'll probably be back on the bench anyhow. We need a real coach and not a puppet figurehead.

 

[sunsfan88]

RIP Jon Leuer

https://twitter.com/MikeSGallagher/status/679153829364031488

He didn't even get a chance to jump cause Burks was too quick for him...

 

[BC867]

BC has to be happy

Suns seem to be ending this dual PG lineup crap...lets see if it lasts.

I got home late last night and didn't check the lineups 'til I was about to head out to work this morning. I gasped.

I wouldn't call it seeming to end the "dual PG (tweener Guard) crap."

Could Jeff Hornacek have done anything more to scream out . . . desperation!?! It was hardly remolding the Suns. It was taking an ax to this multi-million dollar organization.

Hey, maybe if Eric would change his avatar the Suns might take a hint.

Jeff made the most of his talents as Guard. He is nowhere near that as Head Coach.

 

[sunsfan88]

I got home late last night and didn't check the lineups 'til I was about to head out to work this morning. I gasped.

I wouldn't call it seeming to end the "dual PG (tweener Guard) crap."

Could Jeff Hornacek have done anything more to scream out . . . desperation!?! It was hardly remolding the Suns. It was taking an ax to this multi-million dollar organization.

Hey, maybe if Eric would change his avatar the Suns might take a hint.

Jeff made the most of his talents as Guard. He is nowhere near that as Head Coach.

Turns out I was wrong as Booker only ended up playing 13 mins while Knight played 35

 

[slinslin]

I swear one day I will lose it if I keep hearing people bitch about "two PG lineup" non-sense.

We play with two guards, like every other NBA team. There is almost nothing different or special about our setup at all.

The guards are the least of our worries. Our frontcourt is shambles as is Hornacek's ability to put together a consistent rotation, defined roles and development of young players.

Examples?

Goodwin has a great game early in the season. Paul Coro writes about how Goodwin has made the most of this opportunity and will be rewarded more chances and playing time. The result is that Goodwin does not play the next 2 games when Price came back.
Alex Len starts, has a few very good games, we get a bunch of articles about Len growing up and finally developing -> Result Len plays like 15 mpg again.


Our biggest issues are obviously frontcourt and coaching. I am sorry but the way we play on offense, the way we consistently fail plays after timeouts, leading the league in turnovers... it all comes back to coaching.

Hornacek has raised so many red flags over the last 2 years. He has failed to manage his team, hold his players responsible (amount of technicals, Marcus Morris incident) and no improvement gameplay-wise.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I swear one day I will lose it if I keep hearing people bitch about "two PG lineup" non-sense.

We play with two guards, like every other NBA team. There is almost nothing different or special about our setup at all.

The guards are the least of our worries. Our frontcourt is shambles as is Hornacek's ability to put together a consistent rotation, defined roles and development of young players.

Examples?

Goodwin has a great game early in the season. Paul Coro writes about how Goodwin has made the most of this opportunity and will be rewarded more chances and playing time. The result is that Goodwin does not play the next 2 games when Price came back.
Alex Len starts, has a few very good games, we get a bunch of articles about Len growing up and finally developing -> Result Len plays like 15 mpg again.


Our biggest issues are obviously frontcourt and coaching. I am sorry but the way we play on offense, the way we consistently fail plays after timeouts, leading the league in turnovers... it all comes back to coaching.

Hornacek has raised so many red flags over the last 2 years. He has failed to manage his team, hold his players responsible (amount of technicals, Marcus Morris incident) and no improvement gameplay-wise.

Agree--except the part about Goodwin. Totally disagree there.