Suns @ Kings 2-10-19

[Hoop Head]

Bender's salary would have been under $6 million next season. I still think Bender is hopeless, but keeping him would not have been a ridiculous financial commitment -- far from it.

I was guessing on that, primarily based it on what Jackson's set to make since both were the #4 pick and just a year apart. Apparently the rookie scale jumped a bit because what Jackson's making is quite a bit more than Bender. Jackson's in his 2nd year now and is making $6,041,520 while Bender wasn't even going to make that in his 4th, it would have been $5,896,519. That's quite the difference. I know rookies can sign for up to 125% of the designated rookie scale that's set by the league but I didn't think it would be that much of a difference. I thought the majority of players signed for that 125% amount, that's what I'd read in a few articles about rookie pay in the past, although it wouldn't surprise me to learn that the Suns were able to cheap out on Bender and he just took what was first offered.


Salary info, Bender - https://www.spotrac.com/nba/phoenix-suns/dragan-bender-20209/

Jackson - https://www.spotrac.com/nba/phoenix-suns/josh-jackson-23599/

 

[elindholm]

I was guessing on that, primarily based it on what Jackson's set to make since both were the #4 pick and just a year apart. Apparently the rookie scale jumped a bit because what Jackson's making is quite a bit more than Bender. Jackson's in his 2nd year now and is making $6,041,520 while Bender wasn't even going to make that in his 4th, it would have been $5,896,519. That's quite the difference. I know rookies can sign for up to 125% of the designated rookie scale that's set by the league but I didn't think it would be that much of a difference.

120%, I think, but yes, the rookie scale can move quite a bit from one year to the next. I don't know why. The increase in the third-year salary to the fourth-year salary is in the 26-27% range for top picks.

 

[AzStevenCal]

It sure doesn't seem like this team is responding well with Booker dominating the scoring. They seem to play harder with him out. Kind of ominous. But right now there is greater overall team involvement and effort with Booker sitting. Maybe it's just a hangover from coming up empty vs. GS the other night. But it was a ridiculous effort today compared with Thurs.

I think the fact that other than Booker and Josh the team shot 1 for 19 from the 3 point line had a lot to do with the outcome.

 

[1tinsoldier]

It sure doesn't seem like this team is responding well with Booker dominating the scoring. They seem to play harder with him out. Kind of ominous. But right now there is greater overall team involvement and effort with Booker sitting. Maybe it's just a hangover from coming up empty vs. GS the other night. But it was a ridiculous effort today compared with Thurs.

i agree. we all produce better when we are empowered at our job rather than just performing for someone else whose leadership we may not respect or whose decision making and communication are questionable -- on or off the court

even when Booker is scoring and passing it may not be as effective as the rest of the players being more involved in passing and scoring among themselves, without a dominating presence to defer to

Josh is a good example of a player who is a better leader than follower
and any 4 combination of Josh, Oubre, Holmes, Melton, and Bridges has chemistry together that is partly diminished with Booker on the floor.

that being said, most teams have a dominant stud and if they are also a respected leader they can all work out their roles together -- or a strong coach can do it for them

 

[sunsfan88]

https://mobile.twitter.com/JCrossover/status/1094797219096489985

Not good if even Crawford is feeling this way.

 

[Proximo]

https://mobile.twitter.com/JCrossover/status/1094797219096489985

Not good if even Crawford is feeling this way.

Ugh, that is ominous.

 

[95pro]

https://mobile.twitter.com/JCrossover/status/1094797219096489985

Not good if even Crawford is feeling this way.

Ouch, I feel for the guy. He came in here with his experience hoping to teach anyone something about basketball.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

https://mobile.twitter.com/JCrossover/status/1094797219096489985

Not good if even Crawford is feeling this way.

Not good at all. He played 4 minutes last night in a game that was never competitive. I hope that's what he is referring to, and not that he feels like his mentorship is falling on deaf ears. It's never a good look to air these types of complaints publicly...but if his goal was to get bought out, that should accomplish it. There's no upside for the Suns to have an irritated 38-year-old on the bench; especially someone the younger players respect who is likely not talking up the Suns to them.

This team desperately needs a culture change.

 

[Mainstreet]

You should always question this kind of stat, especially when it's just one game. It's so dependent on who you're on the court with and who you're squaring off against that you can't just take it at face value but over the course of a season it is usually relevant.

I do not put a lot of faith in (+/-). When looking at it for a single game it is often misleading.

My response was in reference to Bender having a +1 (+0) against the Kings giving him two + games in a row.

 

[Mainstreet]

You should it means next to nothing in a single game, it has some value but only over a large sample of games, and even then it is not that reliable.

It's a stat I have found mostly meaningless short term yet fans like to use it.

I guess it has some value long term but most of the time I prefer the eye test as to what is working.

 

[slinslin]

120%, I think, but yes, the rookie scale can move quite a bit from one year to the next. I don't know why. The increase in the third-year salary to the fourth-year salary is in the 26-27% range for top picks.

Because the rookie scale is tied to the cap I believe.

Also in the last CBA between 2016-2017 changes were made

• Rookie Scale/Existing Rookie Scale Contracts. The Rookie Scale will also be increased 45%, with the increase phased in over three years. The Rookie Scale will increase or decrease annually beginning in 2018-19 at the same rate as the Salary Cap. As under the 2011 CBA, there will be a new Rookie Scale each season. Going forward, the Rookie Scale for a season will be issued prior to the start of the Moratorium Period for that season to reflect the increase or decrease in the Salary Cap from the prior season. Existing Rookie Scale contracts will be amended to reflect the 45% increase (phased in over the three-year period). The salary increases for existing Rookie Scale contracts will be funded collectively through a league-wide fund.

 

[Mainstreet]

I was reading comments from Kokoskov after the game. This one explanation is really getting old.

Here is an excerpt from a Duane Rankin article:


“They threw the first punch,” Kokoskov said. “We knew they were going to throw the first punch. They're going to come hard at us. We were not ready to accept that punch. We knew it was coming. We didn't take it serious.”


https://www.azcentral.com/story/spo...-but-suns-fall-flat-against-kings/2833928002/


Every team is going to try to throw the first punch. Expect it every game.

 

[1tinsoldier]

I was reading comments from Kokoskov after the game. This one explanation is really getting old.

Here is an excerpt from a Duane Rankin article:


“They threw the first punch,” Kokoskov said. “We knew they were going to throw the first punch. They're going to come hard at us. We were not ready to accept that punch. We knew it was coming. We didn't take it serious.”


https://www.azcentral.com/story/spo...-but-suns-fall-flat-against-kings/2833928002/


Every team is going to try to throw the first punch. Expect it every game.

that's the kind of thing Ayton was getting at in his recent remarks.

this coach speaks in rhetorical generalities without laying down a blue-print
--clear defined strategy or roles
e.g. "play hard but don't foul"
all coaches do it to some degree
but good coaches instruct players on how to "walk the walk" instead of just "talking the talk"

 

[1tinsoldier]

as for Crawford's "Few things worse than the feeling of wasted time..."
i like it. a lot.

he's releasing some frustration in the right way
open ended remorse that does not exclude his own responsibility

to me, it reinforces that he cares
and has been trying to make his time on and off the court valuable
because it's more than just a job

 

[WildBB]

as for Crawford's "Few things worse than the feeling of wasted time..."
i like it. a lot.

he's releasing some frustration in the right way
open ended remorse that does not exclude his own responsibility

to me, it reinforces that he cares
and has been trying to make his time on and off the court valuable
because it's more than just a job

He's been a good addition. So yeah, it's just his frustration at not following up on a good effort against GS. The youngsters have a lot of growing up to do, to let another youngster (Bagly) basically take them to the woodshed. I'd be super PO'd. Freaking Bender should be playing like HE's got something to prove to the rook.

 

[sunsfan88]

I was reading comments from Kokoskov after the game. This one explanation is really getting old.

Here is an excerpt from a Duane Rankin article:


“They threw the first punch,” Kokoskov said. “We knew they were going to throw the first punch. They're going to come hard at us. We were not ready to accept that punch. We knew it was coming. We didn't take it serious.”


https://www.azcentral.com/story/spo...-but-suns-fall-flat-against-kings/2833928002/


Every team is going to try to throw the first punch. Expect it every game.

It's just incredible how spoiled and entitled professional athletes are. I can't imagine screwing up at work one day and my explanation for it to my director being "I didn't take it serious". I would certainly expect to get my walking papers immediately after that conversation.

It's understandable because these athletes are so young and most of them know little to nothing about being professionals and actually earning paychecks (like most 18-20 year olds) rather than just showing up and getting paid.

Off topic but this is one of the reasons I hate the idea of players entering the draft directly after high school and I would rather them increase the minimum eligibility to at least 3 years after high school prior to entering the NBA. If they want to play in the G league (or some other league) in the mean time to work on their game and learn about the business and being a professional instead of playing in college then I support that as well.

Sorry this basically turned into a completely off topic rant.

 

[Mainstreet]

It's just incredible how spoiled and entitled professional athletes are. I can't imagine screwing up at work one day and my explanation for it to my director being "I didn't take it serious". I would certainly expect to get my walking papers immediately after that conversation.

It's understandable because these athletes are so young and most of them know little to nothing about being professionals and actually earning paychecks (like most 18-20 year olds) rather than just showing up and getting paid.

Off topic but this is one of the reasons I hate the idea of players entering the draft directly after high school and I would rather them increase the minimum eligibility to at least 3 years after high school prior to entering the NBA. If they want to play in the G league (or some other league) in the mean time to work on their game and learn about the business and being a professional instead of playing in college then I support that as well.

Sorry this basically turned into a completely off topic rant.

I don't understand players not having a strong work ethic either.

They are young, well paid and have one of the best jobs in the world.

 

[BC867]

I don't understand players not having a strong work ethic either.

They are young, well paid and have one of the best jobs in the world.

As a generalization, that makes sense. But when it is a team problem, it falls on the coach.

Additionally, it would be foolish to not be honest about the predominant NBA situation.

Young people going from victims of bigotry and witnessing lack of equal opportunity in their families (in most cases) to instant millionaires is not a smooth adjustment to make.

That is why it takes a Head Coach who is both compassionate and strong to work with a young team.

Igor is obviously compassionate, but as a communicator and leader, he has not shown NBA calibre strength. I would guess that his private persona is not much different from his public one.

For his own good, Igor's first NBA head coaching job should have been with a predominantly veteran team.

But, even then, expecting players to adjust to his system, rather than accommodating their skills, would have done him in.

NBA young players aren't much different than any kid out of high school on his first job. They need to be guided through their first adult responsibility.

Major League baseball is the only major sport where there is a "growing" opportunity in the Minors before they hit the big time.

The NBA used to have a proving ground -- four years of college basketball. Now it is one-and-done for those with the potential skills to make the NBA.

 

[BC867]

(Cont'd.) There is a whole field of study devoted to it.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[1tinsoldier]

(Cont'd.) There is a whole field of study devoted to it.

yes, when i was young and without guidance myself, i had a C average in HS and i dropped out of college after 2 semesters due to lack of interest -- except for one class -- Sociology, and it was the only class i got an A in. After sowing some wild oats, I went back to college more than a decade later when i appreciated education and graduated with a 4.0

where your head is at the time makes a big difference
if i was a millionaire at age 20 i would have sat around playing video games most of the day

 

[BC867]

yes, when i was young and without guidance myself, i had a C average in HS and i dropped out of college after 2 semesters due to lack of interest -- except for one class -- Sociology, and it was the only class i got an A in. After sowing some wild oats, I went back to college more than a decade later when i appreciated education and graduated with a 4.0

where your head is at the time makes a big difference
if i was a millionaire at age 20 i would have sat around playing video games most of the day

Congratulations on completing your education and with a 4.0. And your interest in Sociology. I took undergrad courses in Soc & Psych. And some post-grad Psych courses as well, the only A's I ever got. I have always had instant recall problems, which show in my not being able to remember NBA stats or transactions from years gone by.

And I had the wonderful experience of having a gentleman with his PhD in Industrial Psychology as my mentor in management (before he ultimately passed away from a heart attack at the age of 39).

I am retired, but I dedicated my management career to carrying on his legacy. I've never done it quite as well as he, but I've tried.

What does that have to do with NBA basketball? I guess, as I posted, that we find a Head Coach who is compassionate and with leadership ability. And one who understands the society and psychology of young men growing up with today's challenges.

 

[1Sun]

Congratulations on completing your education and with a 4.0. And your interest in Sociology. I took undergrad courses in Soc & Psych. And some post-grad Psych courses as well, the only A's I ever got. I have always had instant recall problems, which show in my not being able to remember NBA stats or transactions from years gone by.

And I had the wonderful experience of having a gentleman with his PhD in Industrial Psychology as my mentor in management (before he ultimately passed away from a heart attack at the age of 39).

I am retired, but I dedicated my management career to carrying on his legacy. I've never done it quite as well as he, but I've tried.

What does that have to do with NBA basketball? I guess, as I posted, that we find a Head Coach who is compassionate and with leadership ability. And one who understands the society and psychology of young men growing up with today's challenges.

Best course I took in college (actually, I audited it, so I didn't even earn a grade) was Sociology of Sports taught by Harry Edwards. He would have a lot of interesting things to say on this topic...