Suns-Kings

[fordronken]

Nobody started a thread yet? Did you all give up on this team?

 

[newfan101]

Is it just me, or is Gary Bender absolutely intolerable?

 

[JS22]

So, does Barbosa EVER miss??

 

[jbeecham]

Nice to see Amare playing, I thought he wasn't coming back for another week. I'm glad though cuz I've got tickets for next Tuesday.

 

[Chaplin]

Amare got robbed on that block, that was as good a block as he's ever done.

 

[slinslin]

JJ is racking up assists like he is John Stockton!


The Hawks lost the first quarter 7-34. Kobe alone had 14.

 

[slinslin]

We are competing and Shawn Marion isn't even contributing, Amare is rusty so far and so is Zarko.

All this without Steph.....

 

[Ryanwb]

Originally posted by newfan101
Is it just me, or is Gary Bender absolutely intolerable?

I think Gary Bender actually died 2 years ago and that is his corpe speaking

 

[fordronken]

If it hadn't been for all those atrocious last few posessions, this would be a really close game.

 

[slinslin]

Maybe we really should trade Marion.

If we got Kobe, I wouldn't even start Marion at this point. Put JJ at the SF position.

Marion has taken like 10 steps back this season.

 

[slinslin]

Casey Jacobsen - that this guy plays as much as he does tells me we need to find another SG asap.

How many eggs will Marion lay this season?

Marion plays like James Posey on ecstasy.

The amount of offensive fouls that the Suns commit is almost comical.

 

[Chaplin]

Finally showing some signs of life.

 

[slinslin]

Besides,

Lakers 109 Atlanta 58 ; 3 minutes to go - sheeeeeeesh

 

[slinslin]

And why can't Shawn stay in Peja's face? He gets open J's!

 

[Chaplin]

So much for that...

 

[George O'Brien]

Ugly

There were some encouraging pieces, but the overall picture was pretty ugly. The Kings put on a passing clinic and don't miss open shots. The Suns had moments, but lacked coheasion.

Stoudemire came back earlier than expected and played 19 minutes. He shot 5 of 11 and had 3 rebounds. Unfortunately, he also had 4 turnovers. He had a couple of post moves that were things of beauty.

Pretty good game by JJ. He made some very good moves and his shot selection was fine (only 1 three pointer). He had 6 rebounds and six assists.

Another good game by Barbosa. 3 of 5 from the field, 3 rebounds, 3 assists, 3 steals and a blocked shot. He had 2 turnovers, but one was a perfect pass to Dice that he was not expecting.

May have been Voskuhl's best game of the year - 4 of 5 from the field, 5 rebounds, and 3 steals.

Harvey was quite active and hit 3 of 4 from the field, grabed 4 rebounds and had a steal.

Howard Eisley was much better than on Wed, shooting 6 of 11 including 1 of 2 for three, he had 4 assists and 2 rebounds. He had 3 turnovers.

Even Casey Jacobsen had a statistically good night, although he did not look as good as say JJ: 3 of 6, and a steal.

HOWEVER:

Terrible night for Marion. shooting 4 of 17. He grabbed 11 rebounds, but should have stopped shooting when it was clear he was really cold. Unfortunately, he was taking contested jump shots which can be a real problem. He was so off that he missed his three free throws. He did make a couple of nifty moves on the baskets he scored on.

Dice started and hit a jump shot right off the bat and then missed 4 more. Dice had 5 rebounds in 16 minutes but his offensive game is still rusty.

Zarko was clearly off: 0 of 3 and no rebounds in 12 minutes. He kept flexing his wrist and it is obvious that is it still bothering him.

CONCLUSION:

JJ and Shawn have been moving in opposite directions since the trade. JJ has stepped up and played some of his best basketball of the season. Not having Penny breathing down his neck has really done wonders for him.

Shawn is clearly pressing. He is trying to live up to being the first option on offense, rather than playing the game like he is supposed to. With the way JJ is playing, he should focus on cutting to basket (he had a great alley oop from Barbosa) and going for offensive rebounds. He should not take contested jumpers.

It looke like they were using Dice at center some, although with the Kings high post offense, it was hard to tell. In the race between Dice and Harvey as to which will return next year, Harvey definitely won this round.

 

[Chaplin]

Re: Ugly

Originally posted by George O'Brien

It looke like they were using Dice at center some, although with the Kings high post offense, it was hard to tell. In the race between Dice and Harvey as to which will return next year, Harvey definitely won this round.

Considering that Dice has had only one practice with the team and his role is still undefined, I think he deserves a little slack.

 

[cly2tw]

JJ always had the talent but lacked the confidence. So, this trade is benefitting him big time since there is no pressure anymore. So, the way it looks now, he should be able to get a contract extension in the range of the MLE like Michael Redd did in the offseason. He is smooth.

Which Marion is not, as everybody should be able to see now. The one alley oop dunk was pretty but you can't win games with them. Since he has not much smoothness in his motion he can't manuver in traffic as well as JJ, and thus is forced to rush the ball at a low releasing point before the defense arrives. He is officially deadweight non-tradable burden on this team as it was Penny.

Amare doesn't have the smoothness Randolph has. Alarmingly, his shot release point is often quite low too. But I have hopes that he will improve in due time, and won't the PF version of Marion. However, I don't think he will ever be as good as KG or Duncan. So, it's quite risky to bet on him as the future franchise player already NOW. Meaning, get Kobe if we got the chance!

Barbosa is not bad. I don't see the clear sign yet that he could be as good as Payton, but I'd be very happy if he could reach the level of play of Bobby Jackson in his career.

Jake and Harvey are keepers. Dice will be a good contributor once he gets used to the team while staying healthy. Eisley is a solid backup PG in NBA. Get rid of CJ.

All in all, I like the fact that the players seem to be in good spirit. I think DA should focus on defense first like Denver of last and this year. They did a poor job vs the Kings. On this team, it should be that everybody gets a chance to play as long as he carries out what the coach wants from him. In the summer, we'll know who we want to keep and who not to.

 

[Chaplin]

Ugh. Pathetic. Players sometimes have really bad games--tonight was one of Shawn's worst of the season. Give up on him all you want, he ain't going anywhere--at least for 6 months.

Besides, teams aren't going to focus on Stephon Marbury anymore. I know JJ is playing well, but knowing that Doug Christie would be defending him, defending Shawn would definitely be Sac's #1 priority. And they did a damn good job of it.

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by cly2tw
. So, the way it looks now, he should be able to get a contract extension in the range of the MLE like Michael Redd did in the offseason.

Redd got the half of the MLE.

 

[newfan101]

Re: Ugly

Originally posted by George O'Brien

Shawn is clearly pressing. He is trying to live up to being the first option on offense, rather than playing the game like he is supposed to.

The problem is, he's not a first option. He shouldn't even be a second option, but that's what he's been. Playing second fiddle to great playmakers like Kidd and Marbury has given him plenty of scoring opportunities over the years without having to be the focus of the offense. It's overinflated his numbers.

This year has confirmed my worst fears about Marion. At the beginning of the year, with Steph and Amare as the 1st and 2nd option, he disappeared as a 3rd option. His lack of a consistant outside shot did not compliment well at all. It is not a coincidence that his numbers went up again immediately after Amare went down and became the 2nd option again. Unfortunately, the team went 4-14 during that stretch. Now that Steph is gone, his inability to create off the dribble has made him utterly useless as a 1st option.

To be fair, he's in a funk. Plus, if the Suns were to add a creator like Kobe and some consitant outside shooters, then his game might compliment again. But eventually, the offense will have to run through Amare and a creator, and when that happens, Marions numbers will shrink drastically. At that point he will be even more drastically overpaid than he is now.

Not to jump the gun, but the Suns HAVE to trade him following this year. My gut feeling is his value is going to plummet, and they need his salary off the books before he becomes untradeable.

 

[cly2tw]

Originally posted by hcsilla
Redd got the half of the MLE.

Did he? You wonder why the Suns are always overpaying their FAs!

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by cly2tw

Which Marion is not [smooth], as everybody should be able to see now. The one alley oop dunk was pretty but you can't win games with them. Since he has not much smoothness in his motion he can't manuver in traffic as well as JJ, and thus is forced to rush the ball at a low releasing point before the defense arrives. He is officially deadweight non-tradable burden on this team as it was Penny.

Marion does not move in the paint as well as I'd like, but he has a nice floater and hit a short jumper in the paint. If the Suns moved the ball around and ran cut plays, Marion would be very effective.

I disagree about Marion be pure dead weight. Penny is probably $11 to $12 million overpaid. Marion is probably $2 million overpaid. He is having a bad year, but his career numbers are good. He usually gets the primary defensive assignment and leads the team in rebounding.

Right now, his skills are similar to those of early James Worthy, but Worthy played with a veteran team that used his strengths rather than weaknesses.

 

[cly2tw]

Originally posted by George O'Brien
I disagree about Marion be pure dead weight. Penny is probably $11 to $12 million overpaid. Marion is probably $2 million overpaid. He is having a bad year, but his career numbers are good. He usually gets the primary defensive assignment and leads the team in rebounding.

Right now, his skills are similar to those of early James Worthy, but Worthy played with a veteran team that used his strengths rather than weaknesses.

I never watched Worthy play. Was he as non-smooth as Marion? Whether he is overpaid and how much, is not simply a question of stats. I grade JJ as a much better talent than Marion now, in 1-2 years. But I think JJ's market value will be 6mil a year tops, since he is no better than Maggette.

For one, could you guys please stop talking about stats and just analyze the way Marion plays instead? With the non-smoothness attribute of his motion I described, how much improvement can you see for him in the future? He always needs other people to create a LOT of space for him to be reasonably effective.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by cly2tw
I never watched Worthy play. Was he as non-smooth as Marion? Whether he is overpaid and how much, is not simply a question of stats. I grade JJ as a much better talent than Marion now, in 1-2 years. But I think JJ's market value will be 6mil a year tops, since he is no better than Maggette.

For one, could you guys please stop talking about stats and just analyze the way Marion plays instead? With the non-smoothness attribute of his motion I described, how much improvement can you see for him in the future? He always needs other people to create a LOT of space for him to be reasonably effective.

After watching his play tonight, I'd bench him. Yet I've watched him play very well over the past few years that I cannot take a few games as an indication of his talent.

Last year Marion was a fantasy league marvel plus he was generally the team's primary outside defender. There is a lot more to basketball than just scoring off the dribble. I think he will eventually get his shooting stroke back, which will prevent people from backing off on him. I hope they work on his shot mechancs, but that applies to most of the players.

Right now JJ is playing much more like I expected him to play from the beginning of the season. I kept preaching patience. I will say the same thing about Marion. He is a very good player and he will get beyond this stretch.