Suns @ Lakers Wednesday game thread 3-22-2023

[Proximo]

I don't think you have a grasp on how bad Ben Simmons is.

If we had him on our team he would not be in the rotation.

His contract is, easily, the worst in the NBA.

IMO, he was always tremendously overrated and now he is flat out terrible.

Paul is pretty awful at this point too, but I agree Ben Simmons is worse.

 

[Phrazbit]

Paul is pretty awful at this point too, but I agree Ben Simmons is worse.

Paul is hit and miss. Some nights he looks like himself, some nights he struggles.

Simmons is just a dumpster fire every time he sees the court.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Ok, but you literally added a jab about him in your post without him even being a main topic of conversation. At least when I talk about Ayton, I dont perpetuate the histrionics on here and on social media.




The team is two years removed from a Finals appearance and one season removed from the best record in the NBA. If James Jones isnt thinking chapionship, he's derelict of duty. Doing those C- trades that were rumored, such as Ayton for John Collins et al doesnt move the meter in that direction. That's what rebuilding teams do.




We can absolutely win a championship with the roster as currently constructed health withstanding. Look at the Miami Heat teams of 10 years ago. Extremely top heavy with a crap bench. It's about how Monty utilizes his top 4. It would help if James Jones focus on bolstering the bench next season and the following, but we should absolutely play for the natty now and in the near future.

- Most unbiased observers see Ayton as incredibly talented...AND, incredibly/frustratingly soft. I am one who prefers him on this team as I don't believe the Suns would be improved and any closer to a title without him. But again, he's super-soft while possessing hands of stone.

- The team is indeed 2 years removed from the finals appearance. And in professional sports these days, that's a large amount of time. Paul has aged 5 years in those 2 years. McGee and Crowder are gone and the team is arguably the softest team in the league. Bridges is gone and thus, we've become a bottom 3rd defensive team...one that doesn't know how to play hard, tough and tight defense without committing a plethora of fouls.
As for the John Collins rumor...I mean, is that even worth the time it takes to type that out? Seriously???

- And no, we can't win a championship as currently constructed... unless you're hoping for a rash of injuries to star players on Denver, Memphis, Sacramento, Golden State, Clippers, Buck, Sixers and Celtics...

 

[Phrazbit]

- And no, we can't win a championship as currently constructed... unless you're hoping for a rash of injuries to star players on Denver, Memphis, Sacramento, Golden State, Clippers, Buck, Sixers and Celtics...

I hope you're wrong, because the team is only getting older and the depth will likely be worse next year.

Lee, Okogie, Craig... basically our best depth guys, all will be free agents, we have bird rights on none of them.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I hope you're wrong, because the team is only getting older and the depth will likely be worse next year.

Lee, Okogie, Craig... basically our best depth guys, all will be free agents, we have bird rights on none of them.

I still think we have a chance to make the finals this season if everyone gets healthy soon enough, I really don't know how we could get past a couple of the Eastern teams though. But that's this year.

Right now the West is tough everywhere except at the top where it's about as weak as we've seen it in maybe decades. Some of those tough middle class teams though will be moving up and with CP3 it looks like almost a sure bet we'll be going the other direction.

To have any kind of chance we need Durant to play probably 60% of his games plus the postseason at the level he played this year. I think it's unlikely that KD will actually be that impactful in any season left on his contract but on the off chance it happens, where do we go to find a starter quality PG and a starter quality small forward not to mention a serious bench upgrade? I honestly don't have a clue how to fix the mess we've made.

 

[Covert Rain]

- Most unbiased observers see Ayton as incredibly talented...AND, incredibly/frustratingly soft. I am one who prefers him on this team as I don't believe the Suns would be improved and any closer to a title without him. But again, he's super-soft while possessing hands of stone.

- The team is indeed 2 years removed from the finals appearance. And in professional sports these days, that's a large amount of time. Paul has aged 5 years in those 2 years. McGee and Crowder are gone and the team is arguably the softest team in the league. Bridges is gone and thus, we've become a bottom 3rd defensive team...one that doesn't know how to play hard, tough and tight defense without committing a plethora of fouls.
As for the John Collins rumor...I mean, is that even worth the time it takes to type that out? Seriously???

- And no, we can't win a championship as currently constructed... unless you're hoping for a rash of injuries to star players on Denver, Memphis, Sacramento, Golden State, Clippers, Buck, Sixers and Celtics...

We are almost stuck with him unless you move him for a legitimate big man a picks. The problem is would you be able to move him for someone more consistent then him. It would make you question why the other team would do that unless there was a situation where that player doesn't want to return to that team. If we traded Ayton for a PG I would be pissed. People were complaining for over decade how the Suns couldn't get a big man. We have been unable to find another legit one to play along side of him. Losing toughness with Crowder and McGee leaves us with little margin of error.

Bottom line is we need Ayton. If Ayton gives us a playoff performance like 2 years ago, KD is KD and Book is Book we have just a good of a shot as anybody.

 

[nashman]

The discussion has always been about how much a team would trade for Durant.

Almost every team in the NBA would have traded for Durant at the right price. I don't think fans disagree about this.

However, there are limits of how much a team should trade for him. The Suns simply paid too much for my taste.

The clear braking point for me was including Mikal Bridges.

Understandable but Bridges was the centerpiece to make the trade happen period, that’s who they wanted.

 

[Phrazbit]

Understandable but Bridges was the centerpiece to make the trade happen period, that’s who they wanted.

The Nets were in a situation were they virtually had to move Durant, Durant was demanding a trade to Phoenix, the only other reported offer out there was just a bunch of picks and cap filler.

We're not trying to meet what the Nets wanted in their fever dream demands they had in the Summer, we are merely trying to outbid the next best offer.

 

[nashman]

The Nets were in a situation were they virtually had to move Durant, Durant was demanding a trade to Phoenix, the only other reported offer out there was just a bunch of picks and cap filler.

We're not trying to meet what the Nets wanted in their fever dream demands they had in the Summer, we are merely trying to outbid the next best offer.

They would have kept him period they aren’t taking trash In Return for KD let get serious!

 

[Phrazbit]

They would have kept him period they aren’t taking trash In Return for KD let get serious!

Maybe, maybe not. When stars demand out they tend to be traded for a pittance of their actual value, and KD's "real value" is murky as is. They were in a terrible spot, with yet another star demanding out. He was demanding to come here, he is 34 and he was injured.

I don't see anyway they could sit on him. Their position was only getting worse and he was only going to lose value.

 

[Covert Rain]

They would have kept him period they aren’t taking trash In Return for KD let get serious!

They could have held out easily until the season was over. Teams start tearing things apart, shedding salary and making other moves. It could have been a totally different market. Especially, for teams in the playoffs that felt maybe they are one guy away.

 

[82CardsGrad]

We are almost stuck with him unless you move him for a legitimate big man a picks. The problem is would you be able to move him for someone more consistent then him. It would make you question why the other team would do that unless there was a situation where that player doesn't want to return to that team. If we traded Ayton for a PG I would be pissed. People were complaining for over decade how the Suns couldn't get a big man. We have been unable to find another legit one to play along side of him. Losing toughness with Crowder and McGee leaves us with little margin of error.

Bottom line is we need Ayton. If Ayton gives us a playoff performance like 2 years ago, KD is KD and Book is Book we have just a good of a shot as anybody.

Totally agree with your Ayton comments... Unquestionably, the great frustration we all feel with him is largely due to the immense talent he possesses. Yet, for whatever reason(s), he just seems incapable of tapping into that talent in ways that deliver consistent, top-end performances that fulfill the promise of that talent.
And still... we need him and would be weakened without him.

I think the odds are far greater that KD is KD and Book is Book, than they are for Ayton giving us that playoff performance from 2 years ago. Which is why I say we are not a legit championship contender and frankly, I really don't see us making it out of the west.
But if Ayton did somehow find that switch he flipped two years ago, this team still isn't championship caliber. I mean...if we were playing 3 on 3, perhaps. But it's 5 guys on the court and while an Ayton from 2 years ago, teamed with KD and Book would be amazing to watch, they can't play 48 mins a game throughout a grueling post season. CP3 is shot and if he were to play extended mins during the post season, he would quickly become a serious liability. Craig? Okogie? Ross? Ish? Payne? Jock and Bizzy? Ayton, KD and Book would need to have the Suns so far out in front when they are on the court...just to ensure the opposing team didn't even the score or take the lead when they were taking a breather.

I dunno... I just don't see it this year...

 

[Phrazbit]

They could have held out easily until the season was over. Teams start tearing things apart, shedding salary and making other moves. It could have been a totally different market. Especially, for teams in the playoffs that felt maybe they are one guy away.

They were in the same situation last year and no one met their demands, they even said, if the Suns had made this SAME OFFER in the Summer, the deal would have been done.

Meeting that demand despite their ruined position of negation made no sense.

 

[Covert Rain]

They were in the same situation last year and no one met their demands, they even said, if the Suns had made this SAME OFFER in the Summer, the deal would have been done.

Meeting that demand despite their ruined position of negation made no sense.

That has no bearing on the market at the end of this season. You have no idea what teams are wiling to do. Espeically, if they fall short in the playoffs. Look at the Mavs. Teams get desperate. Teams shed salary and are starved for expiring contracts. There are so many scenarios that could have played into the Nets favor.

 

[Phrazbit]

That has no bearing on the market at the end of this season. You have no idea what teams are wiling to do. Espeically, if they fall short in the playoffs. Look at the Mavs. Teams get desperate. Teams shed salary and are starved for expiring contracts. There are so many scenarios that could have played into the Nets favor.

It has everything to do with the market at the deadline! We were bidding against the best offer they could get at the time, not some imaginary scenario in the future.

We didn't get him in the Summer, we got him mid-season, in a trade that has left us even making the playoffs in jeopardy.

 

[Covert Rain]

It has everything to do with the market at the deadline! We were bidding against the best offer they could get at the time, not some imaginary scenario in the future.

We didn't get him in the Summer, we got him mid-season, in a trade that has left us even making the playoffs in jeopardy.

There was no market until they decided to hit the reset starting with Kyrie. They could have easily just waited. Someone was going to give up a boatload for KD. It was just a matter of when.

 

[Phrazbit]

There was no market until they decided to hit the reset starting with Kyrie. They could have easily just waited. Someone was going to give up a boatload for KD. It was just a matter of when.

Last summer the market for that kind of deal didn't exist for the Nets, the idea that with KD getting more disgruntled, more injured and older was going to improve the market, I think, spits in the face of reality.

 

[AzStevenCal]

There was no market until they decided to hit the reset starting with Kyrie. They could have easily just waited. Someone was going to give up a boatload for KD. It was just a matter of when.

There was no market until they were forced to hit the reset by Kyrie. They could have easily waited if Irving hadn't forced a trade. Someone was always going to overpay for KD but almost any trade would have been an overpay for him. And no team would have been willing to give up a boatload for KD given his age, contract and injury problems. No one but us. And like your post, this is just my opinion.

 

[Covert Rain]

There was no market until they were forced to hit the reset by Kyrie. They could have easily waited if Irving hadn't forced a trade. Someone was always going to overpay for KD but almost any trade would have been an overpay for him. And no team would have been willing to give up a boatload for KD given his age, contract and injury problems. No one but us. And like your post, this is just my opinion.

That's crazy pants to think the Nets were not going to get a haul for KD from someone.

 

[Mainstreet]

Understandable but Bridges was the centerpiece to make the trade happen period, that’s who they wanted.

Then the trade would have been off the table as far as I am concerned.

 

[Phrazbit]

That's crazy pants to think the Nets were not going to get a haul for KD from someone.

Again, that market wasn't there last year, I don't know why you're so adamant that they were going to better offers going forward, attitude, injures and age.

I think some of you guys are to wrapped up in "DURANT!" and not looking at the broader situation.

No one in their mid 30s has ever gone for a package like we gave up.

 

[AzStevenCal]

That's crazy pants to think the Nets were not going to get a haul for KD from someone.

I think it's crazy pants to think that this Kevin Durant is still the same Kevin Durant from a few years ago. Yes the KD of 5 years ago goes for at least what we gave up and if he still had that kind of value today there would have been an incredible bidding war that we likely would have lost. All the reports I read from last summer and this year said although there were a lot of inquiries, there were very few serious offers.

 

[Covert Rain]

I think it's crazy pants to think that this Kevin Durant is still the same Kevin Durant from a few years ago. Yes the KD of 5 years ago goes for at least what we gave up and if he still had that kind of value today there would have been an incredible bidding war that we likely would have lost. All the reports I read from last summer and this year said although there were a lot of inquiries, there were very few serious offers.

There were very few serious offers at that time. Just like there were only a handful of teams that could have made a move for Ayton. Things change every season. The market changes at the end of every season. Nets were getting a haul IMO.

 

[Covert Rain]

All I can say is, buy the Suns, put KD up for trade, and see what kind of boatload he will return. If we get the value of Bridges alone, I'd be shocked. Not surprised, SHOCKED.

The Suns likely wouldn't consider it for the duration of his contract or at least until the end of next season. I wouldn't expect him to bring back what we gave up by then.

 

[Phrazbit]

There were very few serious offers at that time. Just like there were only a handful of teams that could have made a move for Ayton. Things change every season. The market changes at the end of every season. Nets were getting a haul IMO.

Ayton was an RFA, totally different than trading for a player.

Every team in the league could have tried to put together a package for Durant. You're entirely ignoring the WHY when it comes to the Nets not getting offers.