Suns @ Magic 12-26-18

[Mainstreet]

While I agree, I think Anderson can be waived and stretched which should add some cap space. I am seeing 67M in salary if they waive and stretch him (5.5M per season for three years if I am understanding what he agreed to).

I do agree that something has to give. I would definitely choose a point guard over him, Oubre over him, and even Holmes over him right now. That said, I do understand the folks who want to give him time. Honestly, I want to give him time, but I am not sure they can do everything they want to do and keep Jackson.

I think with the Suns salary space they can afford to give Jackson another season.

We agree, if Suns can improve the team by trading him for a player that fills a greater need such as a point guard, I'm very open to this.

 

[SirStefan32]

There might be a spot-gap option available. Darren Collison, for example, is an interesting option that shouldn't cost too much. I would rather keep what we have and add a little bit to it than make significant changes. Don't get me wrong, if someone like Holiday becomes available, or if Walker can be had for a reasonable contract, then by all means Phoenix should go for it, but I don't think they need another star. JJ remains on top of my list of available rotation players, though.

 

[SirStefan32]

For those who didn't see the game, here is a sample of Ayton's defense in OT:

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Note the very first play in that video. He usually doesn't contest those shots. Note how quickly he got to the attacking player and how high he jumped to block it. THAT is what he needs to keep doing.

 

[devilalum]

While I agree, I think Anderson can be waived and stretched which should add some cap space. I am seeing 67M in salary if they waive and stretch him (5.5M per season for three years if I am understanding what he agreed to).

I do agree that something has to give. I would definitely choose a point guard over him, Oubre over him, and even Holmes over him right now. That said, I do understand the folks who want to give him time. Honestly, I want to give him time, but I am not sure they can do everything they want to do and keep Jackson.

I remember reading that Anderson can be bought out at the end of the season for a reduced number.
I don't think you can do both.

 

[devilalum]

For those who didn't see the game, here is a sample of Ayton's defense in OT:

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Note the very first play in that video. He usually doesn't contest those shots. Note how quickly he got to the attacking player and how high he jumped to block it. THAT is what he needs to keep doing.

I think a lot of his "weak" defense is just him trying to stay out of foul trouble.
How many young bigs never play more than 25 minutes because they're in foul trouble all the time?

 

[Superbone]

Booker was pissed that Igor didn’t call timeout at the end of regulation to reset the defense.

Coach made the right call. Orlando was out of time outs. Don't give them a free one and allow them to strategize their final shot. Also allowed the Suns to advance the ball to half court and get a shot at the game winner that nearly went in.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

For those who didn't see the game, here is a sample of Ayton's defense in OT:

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Note the very first play in that video. He usually doesn't contest those shots. Note how quickly he got to the attacking player and how high he jumped to block it. THAT is what he needs to keep doing.

Thanks for sharing. That’s EXACTLY what I want to see from him.

 

[devilalum]

Coach made the right call. Orlando was out of time outs. Don't give them a free one and allow them to strategize their final shot. Also allowed the Suns to advance the ball to half court and get a shot at the game winner that nearly went in.

Yeah, I have no idea but I thought it was interesting that Booker was so demonstrative about his opinion.

Don't remember anybody ever openly questioning Pat Riley or Phil Jackson like that?

 

[JCSunsfan]

Oh yeah, Oubre is not going to be available for less than $15M. Holmes will get closer to 8-10M.

I think that is high. There will be a lot of teams with money, but also a lot of free agents. Also, teams hesitate risking money in a wide open free agency on a RFA that can be matched. Oubre's qualifying offer will be reasonable, so we might be able to work around a little bit. Do we have Bird Rights with Holmes? Isn't his cap hold going to be pretty low? If we can work out a handshake deal ahead of time, we can sign a FA and then sign Holmes using his Bird Rights. This is a summer when the numbers crunchers will really do their job.

We really do not want the Milwaukee pick to convey this year unless we want to trade the pick. We certainly do not want to make that pick for ourselves. If our own pick isn't top 5 or so, I do not think we really want that either. I am trying to find a site that has comprehensive salary cap info including cap holds etc, but it is hard to find one.

 

[Superbone]

Out of morbid curiosity I decided to look at my "ignored content" to see how much he was trashing on the team for this disaster of a 3-2 road trip.

Moral of the story, the coaches are failing players like Jackson, Ayton and Oubre. Those guys should... somehow... be preforming far better and/or getting more than their paltry 25-32 minutes per game.

Dude! I have him on ignore for a reason.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I remember reading that Anderson can be bought out at the end of the season for a reduced number.
I don't think you can do both.

I think you can. The Lakers did it with Dieng.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Yeah, I have no idea but I thought it was interesting that Booker was so demonstrative about his opinion.

Don't remember anybody ever openly questioning Pat Riley or Phil Jackson like that?

Then you have selective memory. Kobe did it all the time. So did Jordan. So did pippen. Too young to really remember it happening to Riley, but with the cast of players he had I’d be shocked if it didn’t happen.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Thanks for sharing. That’s EXACTLY what I want to see from him.

Ayton defending pg's and centers out to the three point line. Hmmm.

 

[Mainstreet]

For those who didn't see the game, here is a sample of Ayton's defense in OT:

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Note the very first play in that video. He usually doesn't contest those shots. Note how quickly he got to the attacking player and how high he jumped to block it. THAT is what he needs to keep doing.

It's proof that Ayton can play good defense. It's exciting because he is still learning the game.

 

[devilalum]

Then you have selective memory. Kobe did it all the time. So did Jordan. So did pippen. Too young to really remember it happening to Riley, but with the cast of players he had I’d be shocked if it didn’t happen.

Pippen, Kobe, Jordan, Booker.

One of these things is not like the others.....

 

[JCSunsfan]

Salary cap considerations for this summer. We will be at about $75 million without Holmes, Oubre, Jackson or our first round pick. The cap is going to be around $110 million.

1. Anderson can be bought out, waived, and stretched. Saves us about $11 million.
2. Holmes will be under full Bird rights. Since he is not under a rookie scale contract as a second rounder, his cap hold will be 190% of his present deal, which is about $3 million. So we can come to terms with him and then sign him last. The main point is that he will only count $3 million against our cap if we want to keep him.
3. Oubre's QO will be $4.4 million. If we can work fast, and other teams hold off just a little before making an offer to him, we could get a FA in with only this amount counting toward our cap. We can give Oubre a QO, then tell him how much we are planning to give him (say, $12 million or match), he does not have to accept any FA offers, especially if they fall below what we privately have told him we would offer him. If he plays ball with us, we can make it worth his while.
4. Jackson is going to cost $7.5 million to extend.

Long and short of it is that we can competitively compensate Oubre and Holmes, keep Jackson, buyout waive and stretch Anderson, draft a top pick with his cap hold, and still have about $23 million to spend in free agency. If we do not extend Jackson, we can go as high as $30 million.

 

[SirStefan32]

Coach made the right call. Orlando was out of time outs. Don't give them a free one and allow them to strategize their final shot. Also allowed the Suns to advance the ball to half court and get a shot at the game winner that nearly went in.

Absolutely! Igor did the right thing. You don't give the other team a free time out.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I think that is high. There will be a lot of teams with money, but also a lot of free agents. Also, teams hesitate risking money in a wide open free agency on a RFA that can be matched. Oubre's qualifying offer will be reasonable, so we might be able to work around a little bit. Do we have Bird Rights with Holmes? Isn't his cap hold going to be pretty low? If we can work out a handshake deal ahead of time, we can sign a FA and then sign Holmes using his Bird Rights. This is a summer when the numbers crunchers will really do their job.

We really do not want the Milwaukee pick to convey this year unless we want to trade the pick. We certainly do not want to make that pick for ourselves. If our own pick isn't top 5 or so, I do not think we really want that either. I am trying to find a site that has comprehensive salary cap info including cap holds etc, but it is hard to find one.

I don't know if it was accurate but I remember reading on a RealGM Wizards board that he was asking for 15 mil and the team didn't feel they could afford that much for him.

 

[1tinsoldier]

Coach made the right call. Orlando was out of time outs. Don't give them a free one and allow them to strategize their final shot. Also allowed the Suns to advance the ball to half court and get a shot at the game winner that nearly went in.

irrelevant
if you set your team up to foul properly it doesn't matter what they plan for a 3 with a timeout
they never get the chance and you never have to advance the ball for a final shot

up by 3 with seconds left
a good coach plans on winning by stopping them from tying the game
not advancing the ball for a shot at winning if they tie

hindsight? hardly. a fundamental call most coaches would have made to win the game in regulation
Booker and the announcers were on it

 

[devilalum]

Salary cap considerations for this summer. We will be at about $75 million without Holmes, Oubre, Jackson or our first round pick. The cap is going to be around $110 million.

1. Anderson can be bought out, waived, and stretched. Saves us about $11 million.
2. Holmes will be under full Bird rights. Since he is not under a rookie scale contract as a second rounder, his cap hold will be 190% of his present deal, which is about $3 million. So we can come to terms with him and then sign him last. The main point is that he will only count $3 million against our cap if we want to keep him.
3. Oubre's QO will be $4.4 million. If we can work fast, and other teams hold off just a little before making an offer to him, we could get a FA in with only this amount counting toward our cap. We can give Oubre a QO, then tell him how much we are planning to give him (say, $12 million or match), he does not have to accept any FA offers, especially if they fall below what we privately have told him we would offer him. If he plays ball with us, we can make it worth his while.
4. Jackson is going to cost $7.5 million to extend.

Long and short of it is that we can competitively compensate Oubre and Holmes, keep Jackson, buyout waive and stretch Anderson, draft a top pick with his cap hold, and still have about $23 million to spend in free agency. If we do not extend Jackson, we can go as high as $30 million.

Sounds like a nice plan.
IMO the first step is to start winning games now. If the Suns can gain some respectability between now and free agency it will improve their odds of attracting that quality free agent.


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[Phrazbit]

Oh stop it lol

He's a troll, and back on ignore for me.

 

[Proximo]

Oh yeah, Oubre is not going to be available for less than $15M. Holmes will get closer to 8-10M.

If Oubre costs 15 million a year the Suns should pass, unless the Cap is going to 130 million or something crazy.

He is good - but he is not that good.

That is starter money, and I think Bridges and TJ will be better players than him over the next 4 years.

10 million is too high for Holmes also. We can not pay someone 10 million a year that is only going to play 15-20 minutes a night. Probably less if Ayton improves like we expect him too.

 

[SirStefan32]

If Oubre costs 15 million a year the Suns should pass, unless the Cap is going to 130 million or something crazy.

He is good - but he is not that good.

That is starter money, and I think Bridges and TJ will be better players than him over the next 4 years.

Eh, I agree, but Warren is underpaid, Ayton and Bridges are on rookie contracts, JJ is on a rookie contract still if the Suns want to keep him. They can afford to slightly overpay someone since Warren is on a great contract, and two other starters are rookies. Oubre plays defense, shoots pretty well, and can create his own shot. Those are all things the Suns need.

 

[devilalum]

If Oubre costs 15 million a year the Suns should pass, unless the Cap is going to 130 million or something crazy.

He is good - but he is not that good.

That is starter money, and I think Bridges and TJ will be better players than him over the next 4 years.

10 million is too high for Holmes also. We can not pay someone 10 million a year that is only going to play 15-20 minutes a night. Probably less if Ayton improves like we expect him too.

I think we'll all have a better idea about Oubre after he's played more than 4 games!

 

[Proximo]

I think we'll all have a better idea about Oubre after he's played more than 4 games!

Yeah. He is playing better with the Suns than he did for Washington, so don't be surprised if their is some regression back to normal.

I would be shocked if someone pays him 15 million. He is a fringe starter type player - every team wants a better starter than him, so I doubt any team would be willing to spend starter money on him. I have been wrong before though. I guess it is possible someone like Cleveland or Atlanta could make an offer like that.

I think the 15 million figure is what he wants - not what he will be offered.