Suns @ Magic Wednesday game thread 3-24-2021

[GatorAZ]

Yeah and his value tends to go up in the postseason.

Yep. Last year he proved he can still be effective playing with ball dominant guys. I think his catch & shoot numbers were pretty elite.

He could also be a prick and drain team chemistry if the right leadership isn’t in place. That said Lou literally quit on his team to get hot wings lol.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Payne has been off a bit lately, too. If he is usual self we win yesterday as well.

i don’t know that Payne has ever been consistent enough to know what his “usual self” is this season. He started the year great, tailed off, was in a battle for the backup spot with Moore for a bit, played well again for a stretch and has tailed off again. His usual self is relatively inconsistent this year, IMO.

with Dario, I don’t know if he has a specific injury as much as maybe just being run down. He’s banging with guys on almost every play he’s involved in, either backing guys down in the post or trying to D up dudes much bigger than him. He might just be wearing down. I would love to get him a couple games rest to get him fresh legs, but we might have to sacrifice playoff positioning to do that if we can’t take care of business against the dregs of the league at a better clip.

losing to Minnesota at home after being up 16 and an Orlando team with everyone’s bags likely packed make the idea of resting Dario tough at this point even though it’s what probably needs to happen for the long term success of the team this year.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Yeah and his value tends to go up in the postseason.

yup. Lou Williams is a playoff choke artist/quitter and playoff Rondo is for real. I think that move really helps them down the stretch. Definitely rounds out their defense.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Oh the writing is on the wall and if we do get bounced early we’re going to look back at these cheap losses and see this team never really had it

I hope I’m wrong

To be fair and keeping things real, how many teams go from historically putrid over a 8-10 year stretch, and then in a blink of an eye, win a playoff series?
It's a process, especially with a team like this that has so many players who have never even sniffed prime-time post season play...
They're moving in the right direction and due to solid coaching and huge contributions from CP3, Booker, Ayton, Bridges, Crowder, Saric, Payne, Cam Johnson - they've made a massive leap this year. That said, we've seen how many of these players are still far too inconsistent (Ayton, Bridges, Crowder, Saric, Cam...) to truly be considered a serious post-season threat of any sort.

This team is at one of those interesting junctures where James Jones will have to choose (maybe he already has) one of two paths:

1.) Give up on certain players and seek to upgrade key positions via trades

2.) Maintain faith (and hope) that young guns like Ayton, Bridges, Cam and perhaps even Sticks, will continue to make progress in the right direction and therefore, refrain from any trades and allow the team to continue to gel...

I honestly don't know what the right path is here. I think most of us would love nothing more than to see option 2 come to fruition and this team go on to be a major post-season force, largely with the current roster in tact. So.... this is why GM's make the big bucks... to make big-time decisions... Good luck James!

 

[Finito]

yup. Lou Williams is a playoff choke artist/quitter and playoff Rondo is for real. I think that move really helps them down the stretch. Definitely rounds out their defense.

yeah Lou Williams is done at this stage of his career

If Playoff Rondo wins another one he might play his way into the hall of fame lol

 

[Mainstreet]

To be fair and keeping things real, how many teams go from historically putrid over a 8-10 year stretch, and then in a blink of an eye, win a playoff series?
It's a process, especially with a team like this that has so many players who have never even sniffed prime-time post season play...
They're moving in the right direction and due to solid coaching and huge contributions from CP3, Booker, Ayton, Bridges, Crowder, Saric, Payne, Cam Johnson - they've made a massive leap this year. That said, we've seen how many of these players are still far too inconsistent (Ayton, Bridges, Crowder, Saric, Cam...) to truly be considered a serious post-season threat of any sort.

This team is at one of those interesting junctures where James Jones will have to choose (maybe he already has) one of two paths:

1.) Give up on certain players and seek to upgrade key positions via trades

2.) Maintain faith (and hope) that young guns like Ayton, Bridges, Cam and perhaps even Sticks, will continue to make progress in the right direction and therefore, refrain from any trades and allow the team to continue to gel...

I honestly don't know what the right path is here. I think most of us would love nothing more than to see option 2 come to fruition and this team go on to be a major post-season force, largely with the current roster in tact. So.... this is why GM's make the big bucks... to make big-time decisions... Good luck James!

Suns improved by over 30 games the 2004-05 season when Steve Nash returned to the team.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

i don’t know that Payne has ever been consistent enough to know what his “usual self” is this season. He started the year great, tailed off, was in a battle for the backup spot with Moore for a bit, played well again for a stretch and has tailed off again. His usual self is relatively inconsistent this year, IMO.

with Dario, I don’t know if he has a specific injury as much as maybe just being run down. He’s banging with guys on almost every play he’s involved in, either backing guys down in the post or trying to D up dudes much bigger than him. He might just be wearing down. I would love to get him a couple games rest to get him fresh legs, but we might have to sacrifice playoff positioning to do that if we can’t take care of business against the dregs of the league at a better clip.

losing to Minnesota at home after being up 16 and an Orlando team with everyone’s bags likely packed make the idea of resting Dario tough at this point even though it’s what probably needs to happen for the long term success of the team this year.

His “usual self” is scoring at least one bucket.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

Lemon Pepper Lou put up 50 in a playoff game against Golden State two years ago.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

Playoff Rondo is literally a meme. He’s an inconsistent player, awful shooter, and can be exploited on defense. I would be astonished if he does anything for LA this year.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Suns improved by over 30 games the 2004-05 season when Steve Nash returned to the team.

Right... but you really kinda missed my point, which was not so much about improvement from a previous single-season, but rather, improvement over a decade of historic losing.
Prior to the '03/'04 season, the Suns had won less than 40 games twice in the previous 10 seasons! Prior to this season, the Suns had won less than 40 games 8 times in the previous 10 seasons...

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

He ran hot from open 3 playing with LeBron and AD in like 10 games.

Rubio isn’t a good shooter either despite his bubble shooting!

 

[Cheesebeef]

Playoff Rondo is literally a meme. He’s an inconsistent player, awful shooter, and can be exploited on defense. I would be astonished if he does anything for LA this year.

career averages: 10 ppg, 8 assists, 4.7 rebounds.
playoff averages: 13 ppg, 9 assists, 6 rebounds.

dude raises his game in the playoffs. he's not a world beater, but he's a championship role player at this point, something the Clippers don't have at all outside of Kawai.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

career averages: 10 ppg, 8 assists, 4.7 rebounds.
playoff averages: 13 ppg, 9 assists, 6 rebounds.

dude raises his game in the playoffs. he's not a world beater, but he's a championship role player at this point, something the Clippers don't have at all outside of Kawai.

You should actually look at his regular season averages in years in which his teams make the playoffs. Other than last year’s random SSS run, he’s worse. Most of the years he made the playoffs were during his prime years.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

career averages: 10 ppg, 8 assists, 4.7 rebounds.
playoff averages: 13 ppg, 9 assists, 6 rebounds.

dude raises his game in the playoffs. he's not a world beater, but he's a championship role player at this point, something the Clippers don't have at all outside of Kawai.

Ibaka. He’s also actually good. Rondo is extremely bad for spacing. Playoff Rondo sucked for Dallas and Chicago and Nola in the Playoffs (unplayably bad TS% for a negative defender). He was good in Boston next to three actual HoF and with Goat/AD.

We shall see who is proven right.

 

[Mainstreet]

Right... but you really kinda missed my point, which was not so much about improvement from a previous single-season, but rather, improvement over a decade of historic losing.
Prior to the '03/'04 season, the Suns had won less than 40 games twice in the previous 10 seasons! Prior to this season, the Suns had won less than 40 games 8 times in the previous 10 seasons...

Your points are well taken. I'm not sure it can't be both and the Suns continue trending upwards. I don't think anyone was talking about cleaning house. However, like the Nash era, there is a limited window of opportunity if one includes Chris Paul in the equation.

After the Suns traded Steve Nash, look how long it took to replace him.

 

[Cheesebeef]

You should actually look at his regular season averages in years in which his teams make the playoffs. Other than last year’s random SSS run, he’s worse. Most of the years he made the playoffs were during his prime years.

I did look at his regular season averages, like how he helped the Pelicans win a playoff series, elevating all his numbers during their playoff run in 2018. Here's his numbers:

2017-18 Reg Season: 8.3 ppg, 8 assists, 4 rebounds per game
2017-18 Playoffs: 10 ppg, 12.2 assists, 7.6 rebounds per

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rondora01.html

And you just labeled last year a "random run". Doesn't seem so random when back to back playoff appearances he significantly stepped up his game.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

I did look at his regular season averages, like how he helped the Pelicans win a playoff series, elevating all his numbers during their playoff run in 2018. Here's his numbers:

2017-18 Reg Season: 8.3 ppg, 8 assists, 4 rebounds per game
2017-18 Playoffs: 10 ppg, 12.2 assists, 7.6 rebounds per

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rondora01.html

And you just labeled last year a "random run". Doesn't seem so random when back to back playoff appearances he significantly stepped up his game.

true shooting dropped 5% in playoffs that year

not elevated, dropped

 

[Cheesebeef]

true shooting dropped 5% in playoffs that year

not elevated, dropped

4 more assists, 3.7 more rebounds per. scored more points. helped underdog team beat higher seed. 3 point % went from 33% to 41%. and shooting isn't the only thing that matters in the playoffs, especially as far as what you're banking on from Rondo. You're hoping for increased playmaking, rebounding and leadership.

 

[GatorAZ]

The Clippers are the best 3pt shooting team in the league. They need defense and distribution.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

lol that was an elite play

but you can’t help yourself

There is irony in this post

 

[82CardsGrad]

Your points are well taken. I'm not sure it can't be both and the Suns continue trending upwards. I don't think anyone was talking about cleaning house. However, like the Nash era, there is a limited window of opportunity if one includes Chris Paul in the equation.

After the Suns traded Steve Nash, look how long it took to replace him.

I'm not at all suggesting they trade Paul! In fact, I'm not suggesting any strategy at all... I simply offered my opinion on the two paths facing James Jones. The first path does not at all contemplate trading Paul, rather, if Jones were to make any trades, my assumption would be any trades would be to put more pieces around Paul!

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm not at all suggesting they trade Paul! In fact, I'm not suggesting any strategy at all... I simply offered my opinion on the two paths facing James Jones. The first path does not at all contemplate trading Paul, rather, if Jones were to make any trades, my assumption would be any trades would be to put more pieces around Paul!

I didn't think you were suggesting that at all.

I'm just saying the Suns have a limited window to win with Chris Paul like they had with Steve Nash. Except with Chris Paul the window is likely smaller.

 

[Covert Rain]

Is Saric really all that different from what we expected with the signing? He has always been a sub-par rebounder for his size and has scored less than 11 PPG 3 out of the last 4 years. I really don't see Saric under performing as much as seeing at least what I expected out of him. He was never the answer for our FC. Depth guy off the bench sure.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Is Saric really all that different from what we expected with the signing? He has always been a sub-par rebounder for his size and has scored less than 11 PPG 3 out of the last 4 years. I really don't see Saric under performing as much as seeing at least what I expected out of him. He was never the answer for our FC. Depth guy off the bench sure.

dude... when we were rolling, he was controlling the floor on offense for the second unit. He's been dragging ass for three weeks now and it's not a coincidence that the second unit hasn't been as good.

 

[95pro]

dude... when we were rolling, he was controlling the floor on offense for the second unit. He's been dragging ass for three weeks now and it's not a coincidence that the second unit hasn't been as good.

Is it just me or has he been playing inside lately more than outside?

Previously we would have the ball go through him, now we are posting him up on other bigs. Previously would we would mostly go to him down low when had the mismatches.