Suns may have to battle for Hill

[Chaplin]

Wow good move by BC. I'm liking Toronto more and more, I think I'm going to officially adopt them as my Eastern Conference team.

I like what BC is doing as well, although I think Kopono won't be as good there. He's a good 3-point shooter, but he was in a contract year last season, so we'll see if he's worth 6 million a year.

 

[mribnik]

Kapono agreed to sign with Toronto for 4 years at 24million. Wonder if that will affect whatever they offered Grant Hill.

Does Kapono do anything except shoot 3's? This just makes you realize how good Barbosa's contract is.

 

[OldDirtMcGirt]

Does Kapono do anything except shoot 3's? This just makes you realize how good Barbosa's contract is.

They could've probably gotten James Posey for that money. What is Toronto thinking?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I like what BC is doing as well, although I think Kopono won't be as good there. He's a good 3-point shooter, but he was in a contract year last season, so we'll see if he's worth 6 million a year.

i doubt someone like kapono was contract driven. if you said you thought his success would suffer from losing shaq and wade, i'd agree somewhat, but he's going to an offense like the suns where it's designed to get 3 point looks. he'll be a good signing there.

 

[Mainstreet]

i doubt someone like kapono was contract driven. if you said you thought his success would suffer from losing shaq and wade, i'd agree somewhat, but he's going to an offense like the suns where it's designed to get 3 point looks. he'll be a good signing there.

Yes, BC knows what he is doing and he is getting the players that can play the Suns style (spreading the court). IMO they are going to very good sooner rather than later. I think they will be a force in the East.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I will never understand strong-arming BC out of the organization after he had completely built and rebuilt a championship contender twice in the span of two years and then installing novices into the most important position of authority on the team during a title run. That is just so back-asswards thinking IMO.

nice move by the Raps - they just continue to stockpile good young talent across the board. They also got Carlos Delfino for a 2nd round pick earlier this summer, right?

If James Dolan had a brain in his head, he should have fired Isiah the moment it looked like a possibility that BC was gonna be gone from the Suns.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I will never understand strong-arming BC out of the organization after he had completely built and rebuilt a championship contender twice in the span of two years and then installing novices into the most important position of authority on the team during a title run. That is just so back-asswards thinking IMO.

nice move by the Raps - they just continue to stockpile good young talent across the board. They also got Carlos Delfino for a 2nd round pick earlier this summer, right?

If James Dolan had a brain in his head, he should have fired Isiah the moment it looked like a possibility that BC was gonna be gone from the Suns.

Its because Sarver wanted Kerr. This was the plan from before the agreement to purchase. Speculation of mine, but I believe it.

 

[Mainstreet]

If James Dolan had a brain in his head, he should have fired Isiah the moment it looked like a possibility that BC was gonna be gone from the Suns.

IMO, BC could have worked his magic on almost any team he would have gone to if the ownership let him have the power. It's almost scary what he could have done with New York or the Lakers. I guess if the Suns didn't appreciate BC it was better for the league that he went to a team outside the United States to keep a team in Canada.

 

[sunsfn]

If James Dolan had a brain in his head, he should have fired Isiah the moment it looked like a possibility that BC was gonna be gone from the Suns.

Can you imagine what he could have done with the amount of money that NY has to get a team together!! WOW!

 

[OldDirtMcGirt]

I will never understand strong-arming BC out of the organization after he had completely built and rebuilt a championship contender twice in the span of two years and then installing novices into the most important position of authority on the team during a title run. That is just so back-asswards thinking IMO.

nice move by the Raps - they just continue to stockpile good young talent across the board. They also got Carlos Delfino for a 2nd round pick earlier this summer, right?

If James Dolan had a brain in his head, he should have fired Isiah the moment it looked like a possibility that BC was gonna be gone from the Suns.

While BC is definitely a great general manager, this was a very foolish move IMO. They might be stockpiling young talent, but they're doing at a very steep price and sacrificing good defense.

 

[JCSunsfan]

So we want Grant Hill, but we will only offer him the vet minimum. There is no reason to believe this will go anywhere other than the way the Michael Finley deal went last summer.

Can you imagine how it sounds to a player when you offer him the vet minimum even though you all know you COULD offer up to the MLE. Even if its "not about the money" you'd better have a good reason why you need to spend it elsewhere, otherwise its just about being cheap.

All it says is, "the owner would rather keep it in his pocket than put in your pocket."

Its insulting to the player. They did this with Finley last year.

They had better pony up a good bit of the MLE. We're on the doorstep of winning it all, and you have to go for it. Save "saving money" for rebuilding time. KT will come off the books next summer anyway.

BTW. If we had signed Finley last summer, we would be trying to package him with draft picks to move him now, and everyone would be saying what a terrible thing it was to sign him.

I used to be mister sunshine, but I've turned to the dark side. I have no confidence in this ownership or the management team puppets he has hired. Its clear its all about money and that would be Donald Sterling and Bill Bidwill territory.

 

[OldDirtMcGirt]

So we want Grant Hill, but we will only offer him the vet minimum. There is no reason to believe this will go anywhere other than the way the Michael Finley deal went last summer.

Can you imagine how it sounds to a player when you offer him the vet minimum even though you all know you COULD offer up to the MLE. Even if its "not about the money" you'd better have a good reason why you need to spend it elsewhere, otherwise its just about being cheap.

All it says is, "the owner would rather keep it in his pocket than put in your pocket."

Its insulting to the player. They did this with Finley last year.

They had better pony up a good bit of the MLE. We're on the doorstep of winning it all, and you have to go for it. Save "saving money" for rebuilding time. KT will come off the books next summer anyway.

BTW. If we had signed Finley last summer, we would be trying to package him with draft picks to move him now, and everyone would be saying what a terrible thing it was to sign him.

I used to be mister sunshine, but I've turned to the dark side. I have no confidence in this ownership or the management team puppets he has hired. Its clear its all about money and that would be Donald Sterling and Bill Bidwill territory.

Please. We have one of the highest payrolls in the entire NBA. Grant Hill doesn't deserve the MLE. If we're going to offer that much cheddar, there are better options who would be more deserving.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Please. We have one of the highest payrolls in the entire NBA. Grant Hill doesn't deserve the MLE. If we're going to offer that much cheddar, there are better options who would be more deserving.

Fine, then use it and go get the player. Hill is worth more than, and will get more than the vet minimum.

 

[Nasser22]

Not the whole MLE, but they should be offering more than 1.2 mil. I think 3 mil. per year is good for a guy like Hill and pretty affordable...

 

[Cheesebeef]

Please. We have one of the highest payrolls in the entire NBA. Grant Hill doesn't deserve the MLE. If we're going to offer that much cheddar, there are better options who would be more deserving.

i agree, but we ain't gonna touch the MLE, even with Kerr and the boys snowing us with the "draft moves give us FA flexibility" line if we are to believe that we're reallly only offering the vet minimum to Hill.

Looking at our roster as is before the draft, we needed another player on the roster regardless of Hill, likely signing at the vet minimum, so it's not like the draft allowed us to... eh, who cares. we sign him or we don't, but I think it's pretty safe to say the MLE ain't getting touched.

 

[Cheesebeef]

While BC is definitely a great general manager, this was a very foolish move IMO. They might be stockpiling young talent, but they're doing at a very steep price and sacrificing good defense.

a very steep price? I don't know man, this is an upgrade for them this year and do you realized that next year, with almost every key piece of the team intact they're goiong to be looking at being under the cap at 42-ish million dollars in what's supposed to be the craziest FA period ever, with a cap set likely at 59 million. They'll also only have one FA they'll need to resign off that team (Calderon) but he won't be looking at anything more than 7-8 million at most, so that still leaves them with 10 million to continue to build with.

it's really impressive what BC's done with that woeful franchise. He actually made them a division champ, a fun team to watch, and a FA destination. All within one and half years and after they were so bad that they had the number 1 pick in the draft (in a SUPREMELY weak draft).

 

[JCSunsfan]

a very steep price? I don't know man, this is an upgrade for them this year and do you realized that next year, with almost every key piece of the team intact they're goiong to be looking at being under the cap at 42-ish million dollars in what's supposed to be the craziest FA period ever, with a cap set likely at 59 million. They'll also only have one FA they'll need to resign off that team (Calderon) but he won't be looking at anything more than 7-8 million at most, so that still leaves them with 10 million to continue to build with.

it's really impressive what BC's done with that woeful franchise. He actually made them a division champ, a fun team to watch, and a FA destination. All within one and half years and after they were so bad that they had the number 1 pick in the draft (in a SUPREMELY weak draft).

I have morphed into Cheesebeef. I'm not sure what happened. I used to disagree with almost everything he said. Now its like he's reading my mind.

 

[Errntknght]

I hope we do get Hill and I'm okay with paying him as much as we would have paid Jr - going much above that is a poor gamble, IMO. I certainly don't expect Hill to be anything resembling a savior - I'd be happy to be wrong, but I think the odds are against it. In his early days Grant was a great player but he's just a shell of his former self.

I suppose its possible that he still has the foot speed to run with the Suns 20 minutes a game but I expect he'll be a trailer on breaks - and he's not a guy you want hoisting the three pointers our breaks often give.

He doesn't figure to play any role in our P&R plays - not even as 3pt threat helping to keep the defense from sagging in to help.

He's not even an upgrade on Jr when it comes to rebounding - and that was one of Jr's weakest areas.

Jr was not a great man defender but he was quite good at team D. With any luck Hill's bball IQ will keep him equal with Jr in that regard - minus the blocks, of course.

The best we can hope for is that he will be a facilitator in the offensive scheme but his assists last year don't indicate its a certainty - 2.7 assists per 40 minutes. Maybe D'Antoni can adjust the offense some to take advantage of his midrange shooting and passing but would he actually do better than Diaw at that? Boris, in his awful season, was still handing out assists at the rate of 6.1/40 minutes.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Please. We have one of the highest payrolls in the entire NBA. Grant Hill doesn't deserve the MLE. If we're going to offer that much cheddar, there are better options who would be more deserving.

hill is still a useful player. averaged 14pts/game on better than 50% shooting on a playoff team. on the suns where not a lot would be expected of him he would be a dynamic addition, even if only for a year or two. he deserves the MLE. the problem with your argument is that the players who are more deserving will look for, and receive, MORE than the MLE, something the suns cannot, and would not, offer. for the most part vet mins are for washed up or make-good type players, the LLE for vets with just a little left, the MLE for vets looking for a good situation who are willing to take a little less cash and maybe go for a championship, anyone else with talent gets more than the MLE.

 

[Mainstreet]

So we want Grant Hill, but we will only offer him the vet minimum. There is no reason to believe this will go anywhere other than the way the Michael Finley deal went last summer.

Unfortunately I too see it playing out this way with Grant Hill. It also reminds of the time when the Suns were asking TT to take a pitiful offer to stay with the Suns. Of course he left. The Suns offer wasn't even competitive. Then D'Antoni made the comment something like if you pay him the money he will break your heart. Well the only thing that broke my heart was the money wasted on Banks.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I hope we do get Hill and I'm okay with paying him as much as we would have paid Jr - going much above that is a poor gamble, IMO. I certainly don't expect Hill to be anything resembling a savior - I'd be happy to be wrong, but I think the odds are against it. In his early days Grant was a great player but he's just a shell of his former self.

I suppose its possible that he still has the foot speed to run with the Suns 20 minutes a game but I expect he'll be a trailer on breaks - and he's not a guy you want hoisting the three pointers our breaks often give.

He doesn't figure to play any role in our P&R plays - not even as 3pt threat helping to keep the defense from sagging in to help.

He's not even an upgrade on Jr when it comes to rebounding - and that was one of Jr's weakest areas.

Jr was not a great man defender but he was quite good at team D. With any luck Hill's bball IQ will keep him equal with Jr in that regard - minus the blocks, of course.

The best we can hope for is that he will be a facilitator in the offensive scheme but his assists last year don't indicate its a certainty - 2.7 assists per 40 minutes. Maybe D'Antoni can adjust the offense some to take advantage of his midrange shooting and passing but would he actually do better than Diaw at that? Boris, in his awful season, was still handing out assists at the rate of 6.1/40 minutes.

his ability to cut, space, bang the midrange, and put the ball on the floor makes him a perfect 3rd or 4th option. he'll also be more aggressive (note his fta's) than diaw. is he perfect for the system? no, but that's only b/c of his limited range. but in almost every other respect he'd be a great addition. this system needs intelligent, ball moving, aware, shooters. he fits that mold. and if you haven't noticed (and i can't understand why so many of you don't get this), only a few players need get out on the break for us to run. marion, barbs, raja to a lesser degree, and occasionally amare are our finishers on the break. how often did you see diaw or jr finishing on the break? never. so hill's addition in that regard is not a negative imo.

 

[Cheesebeef]

i wonder how long it's gonna take Hill to make this decision. I'm not getting my hopes up, but I DO think it is a good thing that apparently the Spurs only offered the minimum also. If Hill was really serious about what he's said a couple time re: winning a title and liking the Suns' style then we could have a real legit shot of getting him considering the money's even.

I wonder if Miami tries to make a big push to get him though. Considering they're only one year removed from being champs, Shaq seems to have a pull that almost no one else does, and they're close to home for Hill, if they make a decent offer, I think they're just as likely to land him as anyone else.

 

[Errntknght]

his ability to cut, space, bang the midrange, and put the ball on the floor makes him a perfect 3rd or 4th option. he'll also be more aggressive (note his fta's) than diaw. is he perfect for the system? no, but that's only b/c of his limited range. but in almost every other respect he'd be a great addition. this system needs intelligent, ball moving, aware, shooters. he fits that mold. and if you haven't noticed (and i can't understand why so many of you don't get this), only a few players need get out on the break for us to run. marion, barbs, raja to a lesser degree, and occasionally amare are our finishers on the break. how often did you see diaw or jr finishing on the break? never. so hill's addition in that regard is not a negative imo.

I did miss the number of FTA's that Hill gets - that does indicate he is still able to cut and drive better than I imagined.

I don't know why you said in response to my post that many of us don't understand that we have only a few finishers for our running game. I certainly didn't indicate I thought otherwise - I was only saying that Hill wouldn't fit in the other role we have on fast breaks, which is three point shooters. That is a negative, IMO.

 

[az1965]

I just have this feeling Hill is going to take another offer... if he was really serious about what he said, he shouldn't have to "weigh all his options"... that is generally not good.

 

[cly2tw]

I just have this feeling Hill is going to take another offer... if he was really serious about what he said, he shouldn't have to "weigh all his options"... that is generally not good.

One reason for his hesitation might also be that he is waiting for further moves around the league to settle first. If I were him, I wouldn't want to hurry at all, in particular when there are sufficient pros and cons for each of my options to take my time to weigh them in.