Suns @ Nuggets Game Thread

[Chris_Sanders]

then you havent heard many of the OTHER announcers in the league.

I live in Denver so I get the displeasure of watching the Altitude Network quite a bit.

The Nuggets announcers are by FAR the most unprofessional announcers I have ever heard in the NBA, and I have been watching NBA games for a long time.

Chick Hearn and Al McCoy set a standard that every basketball commentator should try for.

To stop announcing and start clapping because someone flopped after you spent 3 quarters whining about it was just rediculous.

To give everyone an idea of how bad it was...we are in the second overtime and they are still showing James Jones foot on the line as he was fouled for a three pointer and saying "This one call cost the Nuggets the win."

 

[NugzFan]

I know Carmelo supposedly had a good game, but I think his game sucks ass. His main move is to Shaq bulldoze his defender on a drive to the basket (lowered shoulder to the defenders chest, spin and elbow the guy, then use his off arm to make sure the defender can't recover and block the shot). He did hit some tough outside shots so I'll give him credit for that, but his inside game is garbage. It's one thing to go around the defender to the hoop like Shawn or Amare do, but he just spins into the defender and gets the call every time.

melo's game sucks ass? wow. thats a good one.

 

[NugzFan]

I live in Denver so I get the displeasure of watching the Altitude Network quite a bit.

The Nuggets announcers are by FAR the most unprofessional announcers I have ever heard in the NBA, and I have been watching NBA games for a long time.

Chick Hearn and Al McCoy set a standard that every basketball commentator should try for.

To stop announcing and start clapping because someone flopped after you spent 3 quarters whining about it was just rediculous.

To give everyone an idea of how bad it was...we are in the second overtime and they are still showing James Jones foot on the line as he was fouled for a three pointer and saying "This one call cost the Nuggets the win."

they are homers, as are nearly every other announcers in the league but they are no where near the worst. listen to tommy H (boston). you could find bad examples for almost any announcers. and remember, this was one game.

 

[fordronken]

they are homers, as are nearly every other announcers in the league but they are no where near the worst. listen to tommy H (boston). you could find bad examples for almost any announcers. and remember, this was one game.

I have regularly watched games on NBA TV for the past few years. Most teams have exceptionally annoying announcers that perpetuate this "us against the world" mentality. Tommy Heinsohn is bad, but the Nuggets guys bug me a lot more. Heinsohn loses his mind over bad calls, but tends to at least give credit to the other teams when they're outplaing the Celtics. He also points out when the Celtics aren't doing well. The Nuggets guys, though, tend to be pretty awful. They reach for any possible reason to complain on a call or praise the Nuggets, then refer to their praise later in the game. "Remember that hustle play Elson had to chase after that lose ball in the first quarter?" One of their first comments once the broadcast started was "Carmello Anthony is better than Shawn Marion". While that's up for debate, you can tell they're just begging for validation.

 

[myrondizzo]

While that's up for debate, you can tell they're just begging for validation.

or a contract extension.

 

[NugzFan]

I have regularly watched games on NBA TV for the past few years. Most teams have exceptionally annoying announcers that perpetuate this "us against the world" mentality. Tommy Heinsohn is bad, but the Nuggets guys bug me a lot more. Heinsohn loses his mind over bad calls, but tends to at least give credit to the other teams when they're outplaing the Celtics. He also points out when the Celtics aren't doing well. The Nuggets guys, though, tend to be pretty awful. They reach for any possible reason to complain on a call or praise the Nuggets, then refer to their praise later in the game. "Remember that hustle play Elson had to chase after that lose ball in the first quarter?" One of their first comments once the broadcast started was "Carmello Anthony is better than Shawn Marion". While that's up for debate, you can tell they're just begging for validation.

i think part of that is due to the intensity of last nights game. personally ive heard MANY worse announcers than our guys. some arent even close.

 

[fordronken]

i think part of that is due to the intensity of last nights game. personally ive heard MANY worse announcers than our guys. some arent even close.

They actually got better, I thought, as the game got more intense(better, not great). It was the first half that bugged me the most.

 

[nowagimp]

Wow, I felt like I was watching a replay of the knicks game. Phantom fouls, flopping, all the Suns in foul trouble, 3 OTs, getting screwed over and over......That's 2 road games in a row that were almost identical. The close ref calling shots a 3 and the ref 30 ft away calling it a 2 and overruling.

This is the NBA's idea of the home court advantage. If its close at the end, the home team gets the calls and none of their stars will foul out. Getting calls in the first three quarters really doesnt matter if they all go the other way in the 4th when the game is close. I really didnt think this game was as bad as the knicks game, but there were some very questionable calls: the Miller flop that fouled Nash out was a joke, Eddies 2 pointer, phantom contact calls in the post. Little stevie Nashs forearm knocks down a much stronger Andre miller, I think that ref needs lasik, or maybe he saw exactly what happened but followed instructions. I dont think that Nash could knock down Boykins with a stiff arm. And Diaw was shafted again with some rediculous brush fouls. Thats life in the NBA, alls foul that ends well for the home team. Incredibly, during the recent homestand, the suns were shooting as many or more foul shots as the visiting team. I was stunned, but then I remembered commercial meddling in sports 101: dont piss off the home fans, throw them a bone whenever possible. There should be a stat for home foul calls +/- and it should only be tallied when the game is close(when it matters). For example, if early calls coincide with building a big lead, then equalizing the total number of fouls late in the game( I swear this happens in many blow outs) will make the boxscore look as though the officiating was relatively even(but not when it mattered).

And for those who would say this is just "conspiracy theory", I would say, no its just good business, and extracting 100 million of extra profit across the NBA by keeping home fans interested is clever business. You can thank David Stern, who would(or has) make(made) it happen in a heartbeat. David has always been a fan of WWF business strategy. I'll bet that if you polled fans a majority would say that as long as their team gets the calls at home its OK. Its not OK, its not sport, its entertainment, dont delude yourself, a foul is a foul and a flop is a flop, period.

 

[nowagimp]

Oh yeah, and Melo is the shoulder lowering champ in the NBA. I agree with jbeecham, Melo drives into the lane and initiates contact as much as possible, then throws out an elbow to exaggerate contact or fend off. Melo is NOT longer than Marion, just bigger, and Marion knows his rep. I thought I saw Marion trying to get out of the way, only to be tracked down by Melo and bumped. I remember in the early nineties if an offensive player initiated contact by moving into the defender, it was no foul unless he was hacked. Tell that to Nash, Marion and Boris Diaw and they'll say "youre kidding, right"? When that rule changed, I dont know. I dont even think the NBA reported the change. By the way, Nash NEVER gets that call on the penetration, but Melo gets it all the time. Anything to keep the home fans interested, he really is a star, they just dont want him on the olympic team.

 

[elindholm]

I didn't think the Nuggets announcers were that bad. Tommy Heinson is in a league of his own, but that whiny Golden State guy also bugs the crap out of me. They're the two worst that I can think of.

If I were something than a Suns fan, I think the Suns announcers would bother me. They get too excited about every three pointer. The Suns make a lot of threes, so you'd think they'd be used to it by now. But with every one, it's like they just won Game 7.

I think Walt "Clyde" Frazier is hilarious, so watching Knicks broadcasts is good. There are some other teams whose announcers do a good job, but I can't remember who they are right now.

 

[elindholm]

Just out of curiosity, where is it written that both teams should shoot the same number of free throws? I'm not familiar with that rule. It seems to me that if one team is committing more fouls, then that team should have more fouls called on it.

 

[Shawty]

But I like how Pippen described KG. His stats don't make him all that GODLY. If you want me to pick, I would pick Dirk over him just because Dirk has had more success in the playoff than he does even though I know most of you and GM would pick KG over Dirk. Personal taste I guess.

Garnett is the better defender AND is more consistent to date. Dirk also has a habit of gettin' lost in big games.

 

[Shawty]

Oh yeah, and Melo is the shoulder lowering champ in the NBA. I agree with jbeecham, Melo drives into the lane and initiates contact as much as possible, then throws out an elbow to exaggerate contact or fend off. Melo is NOT longer than Marion, just bigger, and Marion knows his rep. I thought I saw Marion trying to get out of the way, only to be tracked down by Melo and bumped. I remember in the early nineties if an offensive player initiated contact by moving into the defender, it was no foul unless he was hacked. Tell that to Nash, Marion and Boris Diaw and they'll say "youre kidding, right"? When that rule changed, I dont know. I dont even think the NBA reported the change. By the way, Nash NEVER gets that call on the penetration, but Melo gets it all the time. Anything to keep the home fans interested, he really is a star, they just dont want him on the olympic team.

Melo is also the hookin' champ of the NBA. On the baseline, he uses the chicken wing more than Colonel Sanders ever did.

 

[Chaz]

Great game by Denver.

Phoenix had their chances to pull it off.

Too many turnovers I think. Nash had 7 which is unusual.

 

[fordronken]

I think Walt "Clyde" Frazier is hilarious, so watching Knicks broadcasts is good. There are some other teams whose announcers do a good job, but I can't remember who they are right now.

"Stephon Marbury just bombasticated a three pointer from behind the line off the pass from the precocious neophyte, Trevor Ariza."

 

[nowagimp]

Just out of curiosity, where is it written that both teams should shoot the same number of free throws? I'm not familiar with that rule. It seems to me that if one team is committing more fouls, then that team should have more fouls called on it.

Trusting soul that you are, you expect that all calls are fouls and all no-calls are not. The NBA has been backtracking to expain foul disparities for a long time. It is true that perimeter teams get fouled less, and that running teams generally foul less. What is not true is that physical teams(like the pistons and the riley led knicks) foul less. They foul more but the threshold for calling fouls is higher, so there are less calls. Its explained like this: they're a "physical team", thats the way they play(so they can bump and shove you more when you are shooting or receiving the pass). I think thats bull, but I expected that you knew that anyway, and were just being the devils advocate for the inconsistent officiating system that has developed in the NBA. Superstars apparently foul less than role players as well, as in fending off, slapping down on the ball etc. If you believe that, there may be a place for you in the NBA.

 

[elindholm]

Trusting soul that you are, you expect that all calls are fouls and all no-calls are not.

No, of course not, and needless to say everything else in your paragraph is familiar to me. My point is that complaining about the officiating by pointing to a free-throw disparity is silly. Arguing specific calls or even trends makes some sense (in spite of being pointless), but an inequality in free throw attempts isn't evidence of anything.

Not too long ago, I was one of the more vocal people on this board decrying inconsistencies in officiating, and I was fairly articulate (in my humble opinion) in explaining how it all boiled down to TV ratings. But I got tired of everyone calling me a conspiracy theorist, so I dropped it.

One thing I never did, however, was point to the number of free throws each team takes.

 

[sunsfn]

In watching this game, it just seemed like the suns were not playing as hard as they usually do.
I do not think there is any way they lose this game if they play hard.

The first half was worse than the 2nd. Even Majerle said the suns are going to have to play harder in the 2nd half if they want to win this game.

It almost seemed like that in the overtime periods no one wanted to shoot and miss and I think that hurt them.

This is probably no contest with AMare, but the Nuggets were without two of their starters and should not have beaten the sun.

One of the more disappointing games they have played this season.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Well I don't blame the officials for our loss. Our loss came from sub par games from our top two players and a complete inability to defend the basket.

Credit Earl Boykins for just exploiting Nash.

 

[NugzFan]

Just out of curiosity, where is it written that both teams should shoot the same number of free throws? I'm not familiar with that rule. It seems to me that if one team is committing more fouls, then that team should have more fouls called on it.

exactly - plus you guys shoot a ton of outside shots. of course you wont get as many fouls/fts.

 

[Errntknght]

I don't know why but I focussed on Carmello when the Nugs were on offense and jbeech and nowagimp aren't far off the mark. He also uses his hands to simply push and throw people out of his way... nothing very subtle about it. Maybe he has a good antenna for knowing where the refs are looking.

One interesting thing he does is something I've only seen Kobe do before - holding the ball in both hands he swings them around to clear out then kind of double clutches and shoots. The play where Melo got kicked in the schnoz by his own teammate was the clearest example - holding the ball with both hands he whirled and knocked Marion out of his way with his left elbow - since it was above the shoulders (the jaw) it probably should have been a flagrent. Then he continued the motion and shot with his right hand - it may not sound like it but it is an athletic move to clear out strongly then recover and shoot in a continuation of the motion. Marion looked a bit pissed about it while he was pushing Melo off him - he certainly wasn't expressing any sympathy.

He also holds the ball that way when he elbows people in the rib cage, which he did routinely in the game. That white sleeve he was wearing helped a lot in seeing him driving the elbows home. He tends to use his left elbow more than the right but holding the ball the way he does you'd still the sleeved arm jabbing when he did it. Of course, there's nothing particularly athletic about that kind of move but his strength makes it work well.

With that 'choir boy' face of his I should have guessed he'd be a dirty player. Before the game he was talking about the opponents banging him in the ribs so much that he was wearing a flak jacket. It's obvious now why he takes lots of shots to ribs - guys are bound to retaliate for all the elbows he throws. And, of course, it's good tactics to accuse the opponents of your own favorite dirty tricks.

I think the NBA refs will eventually get onto his game... Keith Erickson got away with perpetual offensive fouls for a couple of years but once the refs picked up on it they nailed him good. He was essentially worthless once that happened. Carmello has more talent so he'll still be a decent player without his cheap crap but he won't be the 'great' inside player he's supposed to be now. If he keeps wearing that sleeve it shouldn't take the refs too long to figure out what he's doing... it's not near as subtle as Duncan's low push when he's reaching up with the other hand to contest a shot.

 

[NugzFan]

melo is not a dirty player at all. the dude gets abused nightly - of course hes gonna have to play phsyical back but its not dirty.

 

[Errntknght]

Nugzfan, "melo is not a dirty player at all."

What do think he was swinging his elbow for at the height of Marion's head? Trying to fan him and give him some fresh air? Sheesh, he hit him hard enough that he knocked him down. Now, I suppose you'll tell me he was retaliating against that notoriously dirty player, Shawn Marion. Not only was it a dirty play, it's a practiced one from the look of it - it's not that easy to clear out the way he does then shoot.

"the dude gets abused nightly - of course hes gonna have to play phsyical back "

Heck, he was retaliating against every Sun that guarded him inside before they did anything to him. Too bad Raja isn't big enough to guard him, then he might have gotten a well deserved taste of his own medicine...

 

[NugzFan]

one game doesnt make him dirty. one play doesnt make him dirty. he takes abuse nightly, including in the suns game. if you wanna call that stuff dirty, most of the league would be in taht category.

guys been in the league for 3 years now and has never been called dirty...all of a sudden one play changes all that? no, i dont think so.

 

[Chaplin]

one game doesnt make him dirty. one play doesnt make him dirty. he takes abuse nightly, including in the suns game. if you wanna call that stuff dirty, most of the league would be in taht category.

guys been in the league for 3 years now and has never been called dirty...all of a sudden one play changes all that? no, i dont think so.

Take off the rose-colored glasses. Melo never been called dirty? You should read papers outside of Denver once in a while.