Suns Off-season Thread

[Western Font]

I’d say Nash is number one but I could be talked into KJ. Too bad off-court stuff has tarnished both his and Kidd’s reputations.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Your comment leads me to realize I wasn't clear enough. I had in mind which of them was the second best point guard. I can never cite Nash because he couldn't play defense. He is an oddball in strengths, weaknesses and playmaking style.

For a point guard though offense (team and individual) is far more important than defense IMO. If you're talking about traditional centers, I'd go the other way. Steve's job was to make that offense run and he did it perfectly, except when refs allowed defenders to slap his arms off the ball late in games.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

non sequitar I just unlocked KJ in my NBA Jams game and he is worse than both Dragic and Bledsoe. Game deleted.

 

[Proximo]

I was just thinking about who would be the second best point guard in Suns history after Chris Paul. Since I choose Jason Kidd as the second-best overall because of his defense and his playmaking skill, I wonder whether Jason Kidd had any notable success defending Chris Paul--they would have met enough times, when Paul was young and Kidd was fairly old. It's just that Kidd, being much bigger, is physically right to exploit Paul's limitation of being a very short player.

The answer is unequiviqly Steve Nash. Quite frankly put me down for Kevin Johnson over Jason Kidd.

 

[Western Font]

KJ played tough and it was the early 90s. If his career happened later he’d walk to the basket, and there’d be no Charles Oakley waiting for him.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

KJ played tough and it was the early 90s. If his career happened later he’d walk to the basket, and there’d be no Charles Oakley waiting for him.

Imagine him with no hand checking.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The answer is unequiviqly Steve Nash. Quite frankly put me down for Kevin Johnson over Jason Kidd.

Same. And I think KJ has a good argument to be above Nash… he had a 7 year run that was better with more division titles, just as many conference finals appearances and a Finals appearances. And was really carrying the team his first five years pre-Barkley when they made to WCF trips and two second round exits.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Besides that Steve Nash presented the huge issue of always being a defensive liability, his playmaking style was high-risk and turnover-prone. The assist-man have a good player to assist or his skill is wasted, and it's just no use if he makes passes too difficult for teammates to catch. Hey, Steve...the air is not your teammate.

He could also exasperate me for not exploiting his great shooting skill a bit more. The opposing team, especially the Spurs, sometimes guarded Nash (or not him but his teammates) so well that they just couldn't get free for the assist, either to make it or to take it. And if Nash couldn't find them to pass the ball to, he just...waited for them. So shoot the damn ball--you're good at that too. There would come the point, especially against the Spurs, where Nash was running in his little circles looking for someone to assist...and I'd groan. "Oh, no--he's running his little circles again." If Nash were playing now, he might be Stephen Curry's closest competitor in shooting. If he cared to try.

People say this a lot about Nash but Nash just wasn’t close to Curry’s ability to shake guys and get to the hole or give him just enough space to let a ridiculous shot fly.

 

[Covert Rain]

Same. And I think KJ has a good argument to be above Nash… he had a 7 year run that was better with more division titles, just as many conference finals appearances and a Finals appearances. And was really carrying the team his first five years pre-Barkley when they made to WCF trips and two second round exits.

No question for me CP3 is the best. However, I also think Nash was better than KJ. KJ was a solid player. Love him. He was my first Suns autograph ever. KJ really didn't have the ability to take over games as often as the other two guys. He was a steady and consistent player for sure. You know what held him back? People forget all those games he missed with hamstring problems. Then they found out YEARS later they were caused by an undiagnosed hernia.

 

[Cheesebeef]

No question for me CP3 is the best. However, I also think Nash was better than KJ. KJ was a solid player. Love him. He was my first Suns autograph ever. KJ really didn't have the ability to take over games as often as the other two guys. He was a steady and consistent player for sure. You know what held him back? People forget all those games he missed with hamstring problems. Then they found out YEARS later they were caused by an undiagnosed hernia.

Oh, TOTALLY disagree. KJ could absolutely take over games, especially early in his career. His first four seasons with us he averaged 21 ppg/11 asst and then jumped up to 23 ppg in the playoffs. Then after playing super second fiddle to Charles in their first post-season, he turned on the keys the next two playoffs when he averaged 25 ppg.

“Steady and consistent” doesn’t describe KJ to me at all. He was a 5 TIME ALL-NBA player.

 

[Covert Rain]

Oh, TOTALLY disagree. KJ could absolutely take over games, especially early in his career. His first four seasons with us he averaged 21 ppg/11 asst and then jumped up to 23 ppg in the playoffs. Then after playing super second fiddle to Charles in their first post-season, he turned on the keys the next two playoffs when he averaged 25 ppg.

“Steady and consistent” doesn’t describe KJ to me at all. He was a 5 TIME ALL-NBA player.

What I meant by that is he played at that level pretty consistently.

 

[Cheesebeef]

What I meant by that is he played at that level pretty consistently.

You don’t get to 5 All NBA Teams just being “solid”, Covert. In a PG dominated time, he was consistently one of the best in the league.

 

[Folster]

Oh, TOTALLY disagree. KJ could absolutely take over games, especially early in his career. His first four seasons with us he averaged 21 ppg/11 asst and then jumped up to 23 ppg in the playoffs. Then after playing super second fiddle to Charles in their first post-season, he turned on the keys the next two playoffs when he averaged 25 ppg.

“Steady and consistent” doesn’t describe KJ to me at all. He was a 5 TIME ALL-NBA player.

KJ was incredible. He was lightning quick and could break down any defense. Had it not been for his hammies, he'd be a hall of famer. He only played 10 years. He'd excel in today's game with his drive and dish abilities and I have no doubt he would've added a consistent 3 point shot as he rarely took the shot but he was deadly in the midrange.

 

[Covert Rain]

You don’t get to 5 All NBA Teams just being “solid”, Covert. In a PG dominated time, he was consistently one of the best in the league.

It wasn't meant to be a slight on him. To me he was one of the most solid PG in the game at that time. He wasn't a Superstar PG but he was really good. Maybe that's a better term.

 

[Covert Rain]

KJ was incredible. He was lightning quick and could break down any defense. Had it not been for his hammies, he'd be a hall of famer. He only played 10 years. He'd excel in today's game with his drive and dish abilities and I have no doubt he would've added a consistent 3 point shot as he rarely took the shot but he was deadly in the midrange.

Yeah his hammies really set him back and prevented him from that next tier up IMO. I remember going to many games where he would have a great game then all of the sudden be out for the remainder of the game. Had they diagnosed his hernia sooner? He wouldn't have had all those problems with them for so long.

 

[GatorAZ]

Nash is getting a little bit of disrespect here. The Suns never gave him a rim protector or quality backup to make his life easier. When he was off the court the Suns were a mess.

Nobody complained about Parker’s defense because he had Duncan protecting the paint and Ginobili to take some pressure off. Not keeping Joe really hurt because Diaw was really our 2nd best distributor.

 

[Covert Rain]

Nash is getting a little bit of disrespect here. The Suns never gave him a rim protector or quality backup to make his life easier. When he was off the court the Suns were a mess.

Nobody complained about Parker’s defense because he had Duncan protecting the paint and Ginobili to take some pressure off. Not keeping Joe really hurt because Diaw was really our 2nd best distributor.

Nash was an MVP and All-star. There were a ton of games he just took over shooting or passing the ball. There were times he brought us back from the brink. There were times where he had ice water running through his veins and crushed teams spirits. There is no question for me in terms of tenured Suns PG he was the best. Again, if you count CP3 I still give the nod to him only because he transformed this team but he has done it consistently everywhere he has been.

 

[Western Font]

Maybe he wasn’t a great defender but Nash stopped a lot of opponent runs with an immediate pull-up three from a few feet behind the line.

 

[Chaplin]

Nash is getting a little bit of disrespect here. The Suns never gave him a rim protector or quality backup to make his life easier. When he was off the court the Suns were a mess.

Nobody complained about Parker’s defense because he had Duncan protecting the paint and Ginobili to take some pressure off. Not keeping Joe really hurt because Diaw was really our 2nd best distributor.

That's a little over the top. There was no backup PG that was going to be Steve Nash, but LB and Dragic were perfectly fine most of the time.

I'm curious why you think Nash is getting disrespected?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Boston just added Brogdon for Pennies on the dollar. He would have been a nice get to backup CP3.

 

[Hoop Head]

Boston just added Brogdon for Pennies on the dollar. He would have been a nice get to backup CP3.

He would have been a great backup here but he's making $24 million a year, which prices him out of our range. The Suns won't be taking on a deal like that while everything is up in the air with KD and Ayton.

 

[95pro]

He would have been a great backup here but he's making $24 million a year, which prices him out of our range. The Suns won't be taking on a deal like that while everything is up in the air with KD and Ayton.

The longer this goes, the more we likely get KD but lose out on the rest of FA.

 

[GatorAZ]

That's a little over the top. There was no backup PG that was going to be Steve Nash, but LB and Dragic were perfectly fine most of the time.

I'm curious why you think Nash is getting disrespected?

I don’t consider the Goran years to be Nash’s peak. Barbosa was always a liability vs San Antonio/Dallas in the playoffs.

Maybe disrespect is the wrong word but peak Nash was a phenomenon and his prime here was better than any other PG we’ve had.

 

[Chaplin]

I don’t consider the Goran years to be Nash’s peak. Barbosa was always a liability vs San Antonio/Dallas in the playoffs.

Maybe disrespect is the wrong word but peak Nash was a phenomenon and his prime here was better than any other PG we’ve had.

I would agree with that, however, I don't think KJ is that far behind. If it wasn't for Tim Hardaway or Gary Payton, KJ would have gotten more respect at the time. Then again, his hamstring also stopped him from becoming one of the greatest of all time.

 

[overseascardfan]

If I was Jones I would be trying to land Jalen Smith right now while his market is quiet. Thomas Bryant who would have been a nice FA pickup is deciding between LAL and BOS. PHX is either going to need a starting C or a back up depending on what happens with Ayton.