Suns Off-season Thread

[Hoop Head]

If you have ESPN+ or Insider then you should take a look at the off-season guide they have for the Suns. It doesn't give any detailed rumors but does explain who is under contract, how much everyone is making, and the teams cap/tax situation.

www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/33922971/nba-offseason-guide-2022-how-phoenix-suns-approach-offseason

 

[Mainstreet]

Mikal Bridges named to NBA first team All Defense.

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[Mainstreet]

Other Suns receiving votes.

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[Mainstreet]

Devin Booker is Leaguefits MVP.

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[Joe Mama]

Or scared. His history of choking away big playoff leads goes back many years. It's not necessarily an age thing.

I'm too lazy to go look up the actual situation's right now but my memory is that it hasn't been just a matter of getting out played. He's had a history of being way up and looking like the better team and then getting injured. Last season he was definitely injured and played through it, but playoff Chris Paul was not the same after he hurt his shoulder in what was the first game of the playoffs? The first five minutes?

This year I don't think anything was ever announced but why did he just all of a sudden look horrible for five straight games at the end.

 

[Folster]

I'm too lazy to go look up the actual situation's right now but my memory is that it hasn't been just a matter of getting out played. He's had a history of being way up and looking like the better team and then getting injured. Last season he was definitely injured and played through it, but playoff Chris Paul was not the same after he hurt his shoulder in what was the first game of the playoffs? The first five minutes?

This year I don't think anything was ever announced but why did he just all of a sudden look horrible for five straight games at the end.

The book is out on Paul. He doesn't have the quickness or ball handling ability anymore. Just put a longer player on him who dogs him all 92 feet. He can barely bring the ball up with pressure.

 

[elindholm]

I'm too lazy to go look up the actual situation's right now but my memory is that it hasn't been just a matter of getting out played. He's had a history of being way up and looking like the better team and then getting injured. Last season he was definitely injured and played through it, but playoff Chris Paul was not the same after he hurt his shoulder in what was the first game of the playoffs? The first five minutes?

This year I don't think anything was ever announced but why did he just all of a sudden look horrible for five straight games at the end.

I think it's very unlikely that he has, coincidentally, immediately sustained a significant injury five times after going up 2-0.

Paul is pretty much always injured. When he plays well, he has overcome it, and when he doesn't play well, it's the excuse.

 

[Raindog]

Suns just need to sign this guy at PF. Luka stopper

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You might laugh, but he totally dominated Miguel Jordan.

 

[Matt L]

I think you got to listen to offers on Ayton. I do like him and I think he has improved every season. I think they end up just paying him, but I have to admit that I do worry about making him a max player. The different between him and the elite centers is the ability to dribble, drive and create. Embid, Jokic, Bam, even KAT can take the ball to the basket. The really good ones can pass it. I think Ayton has the talent but he hasn't shown the ability to drive and pass. it might make more sense to trade him for another creator at the wing who can defend and keep McGee and find another center. Don't get me wrong, ayton is a much better defender but is that worth $30m per year?

I think you need to upgrade the backup point guard, unfortunately, Cam Payne doesn't cut it. I don't know who is available but we need a guy who can play in crunch time.

I would see what I could get for cam johnsin

 

[Mainstreet]

I think you got to listen to offers on Ayton. I do like him and I think he has improved every season. I think they end up just paying him, but I have to admit that I do worry about making him a max player. The different between him and the elite centers is the ability to dribble, drive and create. Embid, Jokic, Bam, even KAT can take the ball to the basket. The really good ones can pass it. I think Ayton has the talent but he hasn't shown the ability to drive and pass. it might make more sense to trade him for another creator at the wing who can defend and keep McGee and find another center. Don't get me wrong, ayton is a much better defender but is that worth $30m per year?

I think you need to upgrade the backup point guard, unfortunately, Cam Payne doesn't cut it. I don't know who is available but we need a guy who can play in crunch time.

I would see what I could get for cam johnsin

With Chris Paul, the Suns need another point guard that is capable of starting. Cam Payne does not fit the role any longer although I think the Suns keep him so they can go 3-4 players deep at the position. Counting on Paul to play 82 regular season games and then produce in the playoffs seems unrealistic.

If Ayton doesn't bring the value the Suns want in a trade, they should keep him.

 

[Hoop Head]

With Chris Paul, the Suns need another point guard that is capable of starting. Cam Payne does not fit the role any longer although I think the Suns keep him so they can go 3-4 players deep at the position. Counting on Paul to play 82 regular season games and then produce in the playoffs seems unrealistic.

If Ayton doesn't bring the value the Suns want in a trade, they should keep him.

Cam Payne is actually a pretty decent starter. His stats between starting and as a reserve are quite different. Not only does his scoring and assist rate go up but his shooting percentage jumps as well.

What's odd about that though is his usage rate actually goes down as a starter. I found that strange. I know he's asked to score more off the bench but I wish he'd play the same off the bench as he does as a starter because then he'd be a solid 6-7th man.

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[Finito]

Cam Payne is actually a pretty decent starter. His stats between starting and as a reserve are quite different. Not only does his scoring and assist rate go up but his shooting percentage jumps as well.

What's odd about that though is his usage rate actually goes down as a starter. I found that strange. I know he's asked to score more off the bench but I wish he'd play the same off the bench as he does as a starter because then he'd be a solid 6-7th man.

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He looked so good when Paul was out. I think it’s totally mental with him. You can tell he’s pressing when he’s out there.

All this talk of we need a back up PG, but the reality is Cam Payne was pretty much the best back up PG in the NBA this year.

 

[Hoop Head]

He looked so good when Paul was out. I think it’s totally mental with him. You can tell he’s pressing when he’s out there.

All this talk of we need a back up PG, but the reality is Cam Payne was pretty much the best back up PG in the NBA this year.

Yeah, he's scared of getting benched and tries way too hard to get something going. He's solid when starting and he doesn't need to look over his shoulder to see when Monty will yank him.

If Monty ran a more structured rotation between Paul and Payne I think it would help both. Let them split minutes in the 1st, pulling Paul around the 6 minute mark, and letting Payne play the first 5-6 minutes of the 2nd quarter. Repeating that in the 2nd half only inserting Paul after the first 4 minutes of the 4th.

Payne is better as a replacement for Paul, when he's out injured or resting, than anyone else we'd find.

What we need is more of a combo guard like a Jordan Clarkson who can handle the ball, help with playmaking, and create his own shot. That's not Eric Gordon either, whose name has been tossed around a lot. Gordon was that 6-7 years ago but he's almost exclusively a shooter at this point, a grossly overpaid shooter also.

 

[Mainstreet]

Cam Payne is actually a pretty decent starter. His stats between starting and as a reserve are quite different. Not only does his scoring and assist rate go up but his shooting percentage jumps as well.

What's odd about that though is his usage rate actually goes down as a starter. I found that strange. I know he's asked to score more off the bench but I wish he'd play the same off the bench as he does as a starter because then he'd be a solid 6-7th man.

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It's perplexing. I'm not sure if 12 games is a big enough sample but Payne played well when he started 3 games last season as well.

However, this past season Payne's production seemed to tail off towards the end of March and throughout the playoffs. Of course he didn't start in the 2022 playoffs.

 

[Mainstreet]

Yeah, he's scared of getting benched and tries way too hard to get something going. He's solid when starting and he doesn't need to look over his shoulder to see when Monty will yank him.

If Monty ran a more structured rotation between Paul and Payne I think it would help both. Let them split minutes in the 1st, pulling Paul around the 6 minute mark, and letting Payne play the first 5-6 minutes of the 2nd quarter. Repeating that in the 2nd half only inserting Paul after the first 4 minutes of the 4th.

Payne is better as a replacement for Paul, when he's out injured or resting, than anyone else we'd find.

What we need is more of a combo guard like a Jordan Clarkson who can handle the ball, help with playmaking, and create his own shot. That's not Eric Gordon either, whose name has been tossed around a lot. Gordon was that 6-7 years ago but he's almost exclusively a shooter at this point, a grossly overpaid shooter also.

Maybe the Suns should rotate Payne as a starter in alternate games or minimally he should start in the second of back-to-back games.

However, I do not want the Suns to rely on Cam Payne. I want another point guard option that can start. Chris Paul is not getting any younger. I've wanted Jordan Clarkson on the Suns roster for years. I could be satisfied with a player like Dennis Schroder or even Ricky Rubio.

It would be sweet if Gabriel Lundberg turned into something more than a two-way player.

 

[Finito]

Maybe the Suns should rotate Payne as a starter in alternate games or minimally he should start in the second of back-to-back games.

However, I do not want the Suns to rely on Cam Payne. I want another point guard option that can start. Chris Paul is not getting any younger. I've wanted Jordan Clarkson on the Suns roster for years. I could be satisfied with a player like Dennis Schroder or even Ricky Rubio.

It would be sweet if Gabriel Lundberg turned into something more than a two-way player.

You can’t do that you need a team to build chemistry and changing the starting PG all the time won’t help.

I felt we had the best PG combo in the NBA all season and both were unplayable against the Mavs.

I know it’s hard but people really need to come to terms with moving on from Chris Paul

 

[Mainstreet]

You can’t do that you need a team to build chemistry and changing the starting PG all the time won’t help.

I felt we had the best PG combo in the NBA all season and both were unplayable against the Mavs.

I know it’s hard but people really need to come to terms with moving on from Chris Paul

It's easier said than done.

There are not a lot of options with the Suns owing Paul about $45 million guaranteed over the next two seasons.

 

[Hoop Head]

I'm all for Payne starting on Back to Backs. That would make sense and also might help his confidence. Outside of that, I think he should also be the starter for the final week or so of the season to hopefully give Paul some rest and get Payne going.

We're not going to get anyone for more than the league minimum as a 3rd PG. It's not realistic or cost effective to spend more on a 3rd string PG. I know Payne disappointed in the playoffs but he was decent to good virtually all season and compared to other backup PG's he was among the best in the league.

 

[Folster]

Dennis Schroder could be an affordable option at combo guard to take some of the ball-handling and playmaking pressure off of CP3 and Booker. He can play on and off the ball.

 

[Big Al]

Let be honest Lebron as much as I dislike him is better than Ayton period! Ayton will probably never be a dominant player, he’s too nice and soft no edge to him.

Ayton would better off in another city now. I beg the differentce as Ayton can be better. Like he told Monty he can't pass to himself. The whole team choaked. And when you have a nearly 7 footer shooting 70% and his team is not passing to him because everybody launching missed air balled 3's and just plain giving up. And you got a Jae Crowder with no conscience throwing up missed 3's consistently and doing nothing & giving nothing in both playoff series and Mikal disappearing, and a shaky no confidence Shampet never appearing in the season or playoffs as Shampet was wasted contract, CP3 showing his age and Booker talking trash to Luka and playing like s**t with his hero ball and he was a shell of himself in the 2nd round playoffs too. But Ayton has always been devalued & critized in Phoenix by Suns organization & fans. Sure he's immature and hasn't realized his high potential but he's only 23 and the Suns could have utilized him better these 4 years. Ayton will be utilized right by his next team as it seems he will be gone. And he will be motivated and haunt the Suns if or when he is gone. Shame the Suns didn't help develop this young talented player as the Suns always wants a polished player without helping in his development and that was both Ayton's & the Suns job. Suns will continue to be the oldest team in the NBA without a championship which will run for years. And Monty did a horrible job coaching in the playoff. Hope the Suns don't make another dumb trade with LA and we end up with a aging star LeBron James. I'll continue follow Ayton to see if he reaches his great potential else if he goes.

 

[sdscard4]

Ayton is what he is. See ya

 

[Finito]

Ayton is what he is. See ya

The 3rd or 4th best center in the NBA? That’s the reality of it

You don’t get rid of guys who are top 5 players at there positions.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The 3rd or 4th best center in the NBA? That’s the reality of it

You don’t get rid of guys who are top 5 players at there positions.

3rd?

I just did a quick search of “ranking NBA centers 2022.” Here’s where Ayton landed:

5th twice
6th three times
7th three times

Not saying I agree with all their choices, but the consensus is definitely not 3rd or 4th.

 

[Finito]

3rd?

I just did a quick search of “ranking NBA centers 2022.” Here’s where Ayton landed:

5th twice
6th three times
7th three times

Not saying I agree with all their choices, but the consensus is definitely not 3rd or 4th.

Who were the guys in front of him on those list?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Who were the guys in front of him on those list?

In no order:
Embiid
Jokic
KAT
Gobert
Valencunius
Bam

Again, I’m not sure I agree with all of them, just reporting what I saw on the first 8 sites I looked at.