Suns Off-season Thread

[Chaplin]

Since this Suns group hasn't faced very great adversity during its regular seasons (such as one of the starters other than Jae Crowder suffering a serious injury and missing half the season or more), I wonder how it would behave if faced with some real adversity this season.

Whenever the players bother to show up (which, fortunately, is most games), they beat teams so easily in the clutch that I fear they see themselves collectively as a "golden boy." If true, that would explain the likely mental lapse behind the playoff disaster.

The best player on the team certainly has.

 

[Peter Sheldon]

Since this Suns group hasn't faced very great adversity during its regular seasons (such as one of the starters other than Jae Crowder suffering a serious injury and missing half the season or more), I wonder how it would behave if faced with some real adversity this season.

Whenever the players bother to show up (which, fortunately, is most games), they beat teams so easily in the clutch that I fear they see themselves collectively as a "golden boy." If true, that would explain the likely mental lapse behind the playoff disaster.

The "great collapse of 2022 Playoffs" still haunts me. I think it was a combination of things:
(in no particular order)
1) Pulled out all those 4th quarter victories in reg. season that they felt they could phone it in.
2) Nagging injuries to Book/CP3 so clearly were not 100%.
3) Coach making zero adjustments and absolutely no game planning at all even after Game 6 debacle.
No game plan for when Book double-teamed whatsoever. I think a High School coach could have done better. No exaggeration.
4) No trust in bench whatsoever.
5) Suns not adjusting to the refs allowing WAY more contact in Playoffs than regular season and Suns not having enough bullies of their own who could take advantage of the change in calls. One of the reasons I think even with Durant the Suns don't win it all. CP3 again beat up by other players without calls.
6) Collectively being unable to hit a 3. How does it affect everyone on the team simultaneously? Cam J. clearly not the player he was pre-injury. Bridges couldn't buy a hoop either.
7) Ayton sleep walking (too many video games? Bad usage by coach?)

what have I missed?

 

[Muggz]

The "great collapse of 2022 Playoffs" still haunts me. I think it was a combination of things:
(in no particular order)
1) Pulled out all those 4th quarter victories in reg. season that they felt they could phone it in.
2) Nagging injuries to Book/CP3 so clearly were not 100%.
3) Coach making zero adjustments and absolutely no game planning at all even after Game 6 debacle.
No game plan for when Book double-teamed whatsoever. I think a High School coach could have done better. No exaggeration.
4) No trust in bench whatsoever.
5) Suns not adjusting to the refs allowing WAY more contact in Playoffs than regular season and Suns not having enough bullies of their own who could take advantage of the change in calls. One of the reasons I think even with Durant the Suns don't win it all. CP3 again beat up by other players without calls.
6) Collectively being unable to hit a 3. How does it affect everyone on the team simultaneously? Cam J. clearly not the player he was pre-injury. Bridges couldn't buy a hoop either.
7) Ayton sleep walking (too many video games? Bad usage by coach?)

what have I missed?

No backup PG no PF no chip. simple as that.

 

[Mainstreet]

The "great collapse of 2022 Playoffs" still haunts me. I think it was a combination of things:
(in no particular order)
1) Pulled out all those 4th quarter victories in reg. season that they felt they could phone it in.
2) Nagging injuries to Book/CP3 so clearly were not 100%.
3) Coach making zero adjustments and absolutely no game planning at all even after Game 6 debacle.
No game plan for when Book double-teamed whatsoever. I think a High School coach could have done better. No exaggeration.
4) No trust in bench whatsoever.
5) Suns not adjusting to the refs allowing WAY more contact in Playoffs than regular season and Suns not having enough bullies of their own who could take advantage of the change in calls. One of the reasons I think even with Durant the Suns don't win it all. CP3 again beat up by other players without calls.
6) Collectively being unable to hit a 3. How does it affect everyone on the team simultaneously? Cam J. clearly not the player he was pre-injury. Bridges couldn't buy a hoop either.
7) Ayton sleep walking (too many video games? Bad usage by coach?)

what have I missed?

I think you did a good job of nailing a lot of the causes.

The ones that most stick out for me are the Suns failure on defense to adjust to what the Mavericks were doing on offense.

Also, they were also unable to hit the three point shot, plus Cam Payne was unable to create and run the team like the previous season.

 

[Mainstreet]

On defense against the Mavericks, it seemed like the Suns big men were always too far away from the hoop, allowing the opponent to run back door plays. The Mavericks would run outside-in plays or inside-out plays and the Suns could never adapt.

It was frustrating to see the Mavericks getting layups against the Ayton, McGee and Biyombo or wide open 3-pointers.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

On defense against the Mavericks, it seemed like the Suns big men were always too far away from the hoop, allowing the opponent to run back door plays. The Mavericks would run outside-in plays or inside-out plays and the Suns could never adapt.

It was frustrating to see the Mavericks getting layups against the Ayton, McGee and Biyombo or wide open 3-pointers.

Agreed. It means your defense is completely compromised when get they both. We didn’t even take one or the other away.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Wasnt the team plagued with Covid? The version going around now is not so deadly, but it does wipe you out for a week or so.

 

[Proximo]

The "great collapse of 2022 Playoffs" still haunts me. I think it was a combination of things:
(in no particular order)
1) Pulled out all those 4th quarter victories in reg. season that they felt they could phone it in.
2) Nagging injuries to Book/CP3 so clearly were not 100%.
3) Coach making zero adjustments and absolutely no game planning at all even after Game 6 debacle.
No game plan for when Book double-teamed whatsoever. I think a High School coach could have done better. No exaggeration.
4) No trust in bench whatsoever.
5) Suns not adjusting to the refs allowing WAY more contact in Playoffs than regular season and Suns not having enough bullies of their own who could take advantage of the change in calls. One of the reasons I think even with Durant the Suns don't win it all. CP3 again beat up by other players without calls.
6) Collectively being unable to hit a 3. How does it affect everyone on the team simultaneously? Cam J. clearly not the player he was pre-injury. Bridges couldn't buy a hoop either.
7) Ayton sleep walking (too many video games? Bad usage by coach?)

what have I missed?

I think these were my biggest factors

1.) There is no proof CP3 was hurt - nothing has come out about it at all. Combine this with his infamous press conference, and I think something really bad was going on behind the scenes that effectively appeared to make him not try. Well that and I think Dallas had a great plan for defending him. I speculate some teamate(s) said some rather harsh stuff towards him regarding his bossiness, and his effective response was F these guys. If I am correct, that is obviously potentially a problem going forward. But I did late in the season notice Crowder and CP not seeming to get along - so that may be the reason the Suns are looking to move him.

2.) There was no trust in the bench - because they completly sucked and did not deserve any. Cam Payne, Shamet, Craig, even Cam Johnson were for the most part completely terrible. To me that alone was probably to big of a problem for the team to realistically overcome.

I really did not have much of a problem with Aytons play - at least till game 7, he just did not get that many opportunites. For that I will agree I did not see an adjustment from Monty to try and feed Ayton when he seemingly was one of our matchup advantages.

The Suns as constructed don't have players good at drawing fouls or driving to the basket. This becomes a huge issue when their outside shot isn't falling - especially when you add in their seemingly horrible ability to collect long rebounds.

 

[Muggz]

Disagree that it was as simple as that. It was surely mostly a mental collapse. If so, another PF and a better backup PG would have helped only if the mental collapse somehow didn't include them.

ok

 

[Hoop Head]

Suns are ranked 3rd to make it out of the West behind Golden State and the Clippers. They're ranked 6th for the title behind GS, LA, Boston, Milwaukee, and Miami in that order.

That makes more sense than the recent piece they did saying the Suns would have the best record. Best record or not, I don't think the Suns are a favorite for the championship any longer. That's all barring a KD deal, of course.

www.Espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/34375209/nba-projections-2022-23-our-picks-eastern-conference-western-conference-nba-champions

 

[Chaplin]

Suns are ranked 3rd to make it out of the West behind Golden State and the Clippers. They're ranked 6th for the title behind GS, LA, Boston, Milwaukee, and Miami in that order.

That makes more sense than the recent piece they did saying the Suns would have the best record. Best record or not, I don't think the Suns are a favorite for the championship any longer. That's all barring a KD deal, of course.

Espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/34375209/nba-projections-2022-23-our-picks-eastern-conference-western-conference-nba-champions

A) It's ESPN
B) They weren't favored last offseason either

Not saying they should be favored, I'm just saying ESPN is far from the authority on the Suns.

 

[boisesuns]

A) It's ESPN
B) They weren't favored last offseason either

Not saying they should be favored, I'm just saying ESPN is far from the authority on the Suns.

Espn story blueprint

-let’s bring in a expert to give an update and say nothing still
-how does this impact Lebron and his legecy?
-someone to yell or make a ridiculous take

 

[Mainstreet]

Hmm.

Maybe Cam Johnson can give Monty some coaching tips.

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[Fumats20]

I like Coach CamJ.

"This is the time we make mistakes learning."

That's code for I'm teaching you now.

 

[Fumats20]

CamJ is going to make a great coach because he includes teaching and has the patience to do so. It's great to see because players do move on to the executive level when the ball stops....and most coaches were not the level of player they demand from their players....cough cough Monty included.

Now when he making his $15-20 mil a year, nobody should have to tell him nothing. If anything he's doing what he got to do to get that $30 mil contract.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Both years the Suns lost, they faced a big wing/pf type player who was allowed to bull his way through the lane without consequence. They don't let centers do that, but Giannis does not play like a center. Doncic really is a pf kinda.

Jae failed to defend it and DA was completely frustrated about it too. They still do not have an answer for it.

They cannot win a championship until they learn to defend it or produce their own version of it.

 

[Covert Rain]

Since this Suns group hasn't faced very great adversity during its regular seasons (such as one of the starters other than Jae Crowder suffering a serious injury and missing half the season or more), I wonder how it would behave if faced with some real adversity this season.

Whenever the players bother to show up (which, fortunately, is most games), they beat teams so easily in the clutch that I fear they see themselves collectively as a "golden boy." If true, that would explain the likely mental lapse behind the playoff disaster.

What do you consider real adversity? Past couple seasons Saric got hurt. Frank got hurt. Covid swept the team multiple times. Booker has had repeated hamstring injuries. Paul has had repeated injuries. This season was coming off a collapse in the finals. I would argue the Suns have seen plenty of adversity.

 

[somethingshesaid]

Now when he making his $15-20 mil a year, nobody should have to tell him nothing. If anything he's doing what he got to do to get that $30 mil contract.

Yeah, I have expected that Johnson won't be a Sun that much longer because of money. Try to convince me a bench player will be paid $30M when all the starters except Crowder already have large contracts.

 

[Fumats20]

I'm afraid too he will be gone because the Suns can't pay him at least $15 mil. Especially since the Suns dont know how to invest in tomorrow and focus on today at the same time.

 

[Covert Rain]

Yeah, I have expected that Johnson won't be a Sun that much longer because of money. Try to convince me a bench player will be paid $30M when all the starters except Crowder already have large contracts.

That might be why there are rumors of moving Crowder.

 

[Cheesebeef]

That might be why there are rumors of moving Crowder.

Since Cam’s contract extension wouldn’t hit the book until next off-season when Crowder comes off the books, I don’t think that’s a reason Crowder would be moved right now.

 

[Covert Rain]

Since Cam’s contract extension wouldn’t hit the book until next off-season when Crowder comes off the books, I don’t think that’s a reason Crowder would be moved right now.

Good point.

 

[Mainstreet]

Since Cam’s contract extension wouldn’t hit the book until next off-season when Crowder comes off the books, I don’t think that’s a reason Crowder would be moved right now.

Yeah. Crowder is an expiring contract. He will be off the books after this coming season.

 

[Big Al]

Hmm.

Maybe Cam Johnson can give Monty some coaching tips.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

I know many here will disagree with me but I want to keep Mikal, Ayton, and Cam Johnson and move on from the Durant trade acquisition unless we can get him for numerous draft picks and Crowder, Shamet, Craig, & Cam Payne and the Nets aren't going to take that combination of players. I don't want to gut this contending team for 34 year superstar making close to $50 million per for 4 years. A 24 year Durant we are not getting. Run in back

 

[Mainstreet]

I know many here will disagree with me but I want to keep Mikal, Ayton, and Cam Johnson and move on from the Durant trade acquisition unless we can get him for numerous draft picks and Crowder, Shamet, Craig, & Cam Payne and the Nets aren't going to take that combination of players. I don't want to gut this contending team for 34 year superstar making close to $50 million per for 4 years. A 24 year Durant we are not getting. Run in back

I'm about there. The Suns being right about another superstar in Chris Paul leaves me wondering though.