Suns Off-season Thread

[AzStevenCal]

Getting guys back from injury has nothing to do with the GM. You can't give the GMs of Denver and LA credit for Kawhi and Murray coming back. The Clips and the Nuggets are surely going to be better, but it has nothing to do with the GM.

True but I think there are times when a GM deserves some credit just for staying the course rather than overreacting to injuries and such. It's why I stand alone in giving our GM an A+.

Our season came to a crashing end and it would have been easy to justify making wholesale changes like almost every Suns fan here was clamoring for. But in truth, we still had the best record in the league and only 4 teams actually went further than us. Tearing it apart might have worked but more often than not drastic changes don't pay off in this league.

IMO either our regular season was a fluke or our postseason play was. If our GM is convinced that injuries and/or illnesses led to our collapse, than staying the course was the best move especially once it became clear that the price for Durant would have required us gutting our roster. And if it was our regular season that was the fluke, then the whole world saw the real Suns in the playoffs and there were no reasonable instant fixes for that IMO.

 

[Chaplin]

True but I think there are times when a GM deserves some credit just for staying the course rather than overreacting to injuries and such. It's why I stand alone in giving our GM an A+.

Our season came to a crashing end and it would have been easy to justify making wholesale changes like almost every Suns fan here was clamoring for. But in truth, we still had the best record in the league and only 4 teams actually went further than us. Tearing it apart might have worked but more often than not drastic changes don't pay off in this league.

IMO either our regular season was a fluke or our postseason play was. If our GM is convinced that injuries and/or illnesses led to our collapse, than staying the course was the best move once it became clear that the price for Durant would have required us gutting our roster. And if it was our regular season that was the fluke, then the whole world saw the real Suns in the playoffs and there were no reasonable instant fixes for that IMO.

For the most part I agree. I don't think I'd give JJ an A+, but he's certainly not as much of a disaster as people here are painting him as. What lowers the grade for me is the optics of seemingly being held hostage by the Nets (McGee leaving does support that theory, but it was super early in FA). I tend to think that JJ is smart enough not to be, and I'm not entirely sure we had a summer of lost opportunities like is being betrayed here. Speculation runs rampant and the only thing we do know is that we had interest in Durant, but there is no indication we had interest in anyone else, no matter how much we all would have loved Dejounte Murray. It's not even clear what the real plan was for DA.

 

[Covert Rain]

True but I think there are times when a GM deserves some credit just for staying the course rather than overreacting to injuries and such. It's why I stand alone in giving our GM an A+.

Our season came to a crashing end and it would have been easy to justify making wholesale changes like almost every Suns fan here was clamoring for. But in truth, we still had the best record in the league and only 4 teams actually went further than us. Tearing it apart might have worked but more often than not drastic changes don't pay off in this league.

IMO either our regular season was a fluke or our postseason play was. If our GM is convinced that injuries and/or illnesses led to our collapse, than staying the course was the best move once it became clear that the price for Durant would have required us gutting our roster. And if it was our regular season that was the fluke, then the whole world saw the real Suns in the playoffs and there were no reasonable instant fixes for that IMO.

I don't know why either has to be a fluke. The playoffs always play differently. I heard the play by play guys called it out repeatedly. Limit the midrange games of Booker and CP3 and dare the Suns to make another player beat you. That seemed to work often enough. CP3 is going to be a year older this year. We have not made any significant upgrades to the roster while losing McGee and now possibly Jae. This team needs some more help. If Jae doesn't want to be here maybe we can parlay him into something that can help the roster improve.

 

[AzStevenCal]

For the most part I agree. I don't think I'd give JJ an A+, but he's certainly not as much of a disaster as people here are painting him as. What lowers the grade for me is the optics of seemingly being held hostage by the Nets (McGee leaving does support that theory, but it was super early in FA). I tend to think that JJ is smart enough not to be, and I'm not entirely sure we had a summer of lost opportunities. Speculation runs rampant and the only thing we do know is that we had interest in Durant, but there is no indication we had interest in anyone else, no matter how much we all would have loved Dejounte Murray.

I mostly gave him an A+ to counter all the D- grades. I think he did the right thing this offseason, whether that warrants an A, B or C I really don't know.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I don't know why either has to be a fluke. The playoffs always play differently. I heard the play by play guys called it out repeatedly. Limit the midrange games of Booker and CP3 and dare the Suns to make another player beat you. That seemed to work often enough. CP3 is going to be a year older this year. We have not made any significant upgrades to the roster while losing McGee and now possibly Jae. This team needs some more help.

JMO. I've seen teams get eaten up by the physicality and refereeing in the postseason, that's not what I saw. I saw an entire team of players moving a half step slower than I've ever seen them.

Maybe it's because our former Assistant knew exactly how to play us and he gave the Mavericks the blueprint on how to finish the deal. And if that's the case, the whole league knows what to do and our regular season will take a hit this year. If this turns out to be the case, our GM will have earned the low rating and this team will flounder until we churn the roster (including Devin, DA and Bridges).

 

[Mainstreet]

And the Suns can't ?

This is what I said earlier about the writer's preseason grade.

I think a "D" grade is harsh, since Javale McGee is the only rotation player the Suns lost in the off season.

This is from a team that went 64-18 sitting a franchise record for wins in the 2021-22 season and finished 8 games ahead of every other NBA team in the regular season.

Am I satisfied? The answer is no, but I anticipate the Suns making more moves between now and the trade deadline. I'm just not going to get bent out of shape at this point in time. The Suns do have to add better contributors than Torrey Craig and Aaron Holiday, though.

I think the Suns can contend, but their roster will minimally need to be tweaked at point guard and power forward.

Cam Payne struggled, while Payton and Holiday and were not sufficient depth at point guard last season.

The situation at power forward is unsettled with Jae Crowder. Cam Johnson will likely start, but the Suns need more rebounding, defense and scoring from the power forward position.

 

[Covert Rain]

JMO. I've seen teams get eaten up by the physicality and refereeing in the postseason, that's not what I saw. I saw an entire team of players moving a half step slower than I've ever seen them.

Maybe it's because our former Assistant knew exactly how to play us and he gave the Mavericks the blueprint on how to finish the deal. And if that's the case, the whole league knows what to do and our regular season will take a hit this year. If this turns out to be the case, our GM will have earned the low rating and this team will flounder until we churn the roster (including Devin, DA and Bridges).

It looked physical to me. The Suns not only seemed a step slower but teams were clogging them up in the mid-range. In the regular season teams I don't think had time to adjust playing back to backs and every other night. The Suns just had their way with them. Even in the Pelican series they were challenging the Suns there. Teams have time to study and focus on your tendencies during the playoffs. The Suns bread and butter all season long was that mid-range. Anytime CP3 or Book were there they were putting a body on them or down there. It turned out to be effective because we didn't have a 3rd person on this roster that played consistently enough to counter.

 

[Superbone]

We could have done what the Jazz did. I like this alternative better.

 

[Mainstreet]

We could have done what the Jazz did. I like this alternative better.

Especially after all those seasons of losing prior to Monty coming on board.

 

[Fumats20]

I think the Suns have enough to win and Jones did what everybody would have crucified him for had he didn't...go all out for KD....because he has enough.

They do have to be managed better to be ready for the playoffs. There are a limited amount of shots and minutes, can't give out more minutes or more shots, you have to redistribute existing ones better.

To be better prepared (and physically up to the task) some stars need to give up having to be the end all for the team every single game to let others develop. The star players have to give the coach the ok to do so.

 

[Covert Rain]

I don't think anybody is saying the Suns don't have enough to contend. I think they do. It's just that it's not going to be easier this year to get through the regular season then then playoffs. I still think the Suns are elite. I just think they are still missing a piece.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think the Suns have enough to win.

They do have to be managed better to be ready for the playoffs. There are a limited amount of shots and minutes, can'tgive our more minutes or more shots, you have to redistribute existing ones better.

To be better prepared some stars need to give up having to be the end all for the team every single game to let others develop. The star players have to give the coach the ok to do so.

We agree, although I think the Suns could use at least one player that can give them a spark offensively. The Suns could certainly use another 3-point shooter defenders can't sag off.

 

[AzStevenCal]

There is a positive way of looking at that. If the opponents adjust during the regular season, that would give the Suns an opportunity to "counter-adjust" for the playoffs. It theoretically seems better than this past playoff, where the opponents ambushed the Suns by adjusting only during the playoffs. So, bring on the opponents adjusting during the regular season. Let the Suns face adversity early and deal with it.

I like that the Suns are not the heavy favorite to win a championship. It discourages the players from getting arrogant (again), and keeps the pressure off them.

But we were never really the heavy favorites to win it all last year (favorites at times, but never heavy favorites). And although we started strong and earned some positive attention as a result, we had been counted out before the season started by most of the so called experts. And the moment any team showed some life we'd find ourselves immediately moved back to pretender status.

Keep in mind that our finals appearance the season before was all a fluke. The league wide narrative was that the Suns only got past the Lakers because AD was injured, and we only beat the Nuggets because Murray was out, and we only beat the Clippers because Kawhi was out and we only had a top 2 record during the season because every team we faced was missing key players.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I don't think anybody is saying the Suns don't have enough to contend. I think they do. It's just that it's not going to be easier this year to get through the regular season then then playoffs. I still think the Suns are elite. I just think they are still missing a piece.

If last postseason wasn't primarily the result of injuries and Covid, I absolutely am saying we don't have enough to contend. If it wasn't a fluke, I think we'll be in the mix with several other teams. But yeah, we probably still need another minor upgrade to separate us from that pack of teams that will have a chance to win it all.

 

[Covert Rain]

But we were never really the heavy favorites to win it all last year (favorites at times, but never heavy favorites). And although we started strong and earned some positive attention as a result, we had been counted out before the season started by most of the so called experts. And the moment any team showed some life we'd find ourselves immediately moved back to pretender status.

Keep in mind that our finals appearance the season before was all a fluke. The league wide narrative was that the Suns only got past the Lakers because AD was injured, and we only beat the Nuggets because Murray was out, and we only beat the Clippers because Kawhi was out and we only had a top 2 record during the season because every team we faced was missing key players.

Regardless of the narratives, the Suns in a way snuck up on everyone in the playoffs the year we went to the finals. Certainly, last season, nobody picked the Suns to lead the league in the regular season. They all know who the Suns are now because of the last two seasons. The Suns are sneaking up on NOBODY this year. Teams are going to gun for you when you are on top. We need more help.

 

[Big Al]

What did Dario do.

Finito.

What did Dario do.

We agree, although I think the Suns could use at least one player that can give them a spark offensively. The Suns could certainly use another 3-point shooter defenders can't sag off.

I seen today where the Bucks are in trade talks with the Jazz for Jordan Clarkston. The sleep at the wheel Suns may yet lose out again on a wanted player.

 

[Chaplin]

But we were never really the heavy favorites to win it all last year (favorites at times, but never heavy favorites). And although we started strong and earned some positive attention as a result, we had been counted out before the season started by most of the so called experts. And the moment any team showed some life we'd find ourselves immediately moved back to pretender status.

Keep in mind that our finals appearance the season before was all a fluke. The league wide narrative was that the Suns only got past the Lakers because AD was injured, and we only beat the Nuggets because Murray was out, and we only beat the Clippers because Kawhi was out and we only had a top 2 record during the season because every team we faced was missing key players.

Here is where you lose me Steve. We were absolutely the favorites the second half of the season (we had a better record in the first half, but Golden St was consistently the favorite at that time).

And it wasn't a fluke. I hate when people do that, it diminishes their accomplishments. Doesn't matter what the national media says. If it was such a fluke, how were we able to sustain the best record last year for so long? We are a damn good team, it's no fluke. We were really good and relatively healthy the second half of the Finals season until Dario went down. There is no way to know if a healthy Kawai would have beat us. You take what you are given. It's not our fault they were injured. It would have been more difficult, but definitely possible to beat those teams at full strength.

This past year we were rolling and absolutely got complacent. It was CP3's birthday, the same day we clinched #1 throughout the playoffs, and the quality of our play was reduced drastically. Book being out with the hammy didn't help but we still barely beat the Pelicans when we probably shouldn't have. We were playing terribly the entire playoffs this year.

 

[Finito]

Finito.
I seen today where the Bucks are in trade talks with the Jazz for Jordan Clarkston. The sleep at the wheel Suns may yet lose out again on a wanted player.

Clarkson is a mindless chucker I’m very good with not going after him.

Bojan would be a good get but that can’t be your big move

 

[Covert Rain]

By the way, Ayton could be a huge X-factor going into the new season. He has gotten better each season. There is no denying that. Let's say the Suns do NOTHING. What if Ayton takes another step? I mean, that could nullify this poor offseason. What if he becomes a go to player this year (our 3rd)? It's just a scary thought to rely on that because of the inconsistency. Getting another sharpshooter or using Jae and a package to get a solid PF sure would go a long way IMO.

 

[Chaplin]

Finito.
I seen today where the Bucks are in trade talks with the Jazz for Jordan Clarkston. The sleep at the wheel Suns may yet lose out again on a wanted player.

I'm curious, how do you know that Clarkson is a "wanted" player? I know he's wanted for the most part on this board, but how do you know the Suns want him?

 

[Mainstreet]

Finito.
I seen today where the Bucks are in trade talks with the Jazz for Jordan Clarkston. The sleep at the wheel Suns may yet lose out again on a wanted player.

They already have good 3-point shooters in Ingles, Connaughton and Allen.

The Bucks will be that much more lethal if they add Clarkson.

 

[Hoop Head]

Not saying the Suns should get a good grade but what did Golden State do and what grade did they get?

What do you mean? I was listing my personal grade. I'd give the Warriors a B+ at least. They lost some role players but kept their core intact. They're the champs and they're definitely in position to repeat.

 

[Big Al]

Finito.
I seen today where the Bucks are in trade talks with the Jazz for Jordan Clarkston. The sleep at the wheel Suns may yet lose out again on a wanted player.

Clarkson is a mindless chucker I’m very good with not going after him.

Bojan would be a good get but that can’t be your big move

Yeah Clarkston has that streak shooter flaw about him but a good coach could use control on that and make him take advised shots when the opportunities occur.
Bojan is not going to move the needle for our power forward need. He will give us consistent offense at the cost of his lack of defense for sure. Plus Bogan not that rebounding power forward we need as Ayton can't get us all our boards.

 

[Chaplin]

What do you mean? I was listing my personal grade. I'd give the Warriors a B+ at least. They lost some role players but kept their core intact. They're the champs and they're definitely in position to repeat.

Sounds like the Suns. They lost A role player and kept their core intact. So far.

 

[Mainstreet]

A couple of thoughts.

I think the Suns forwards got exposed defensively in the playoffs with their inability to defend and rebound off switches.

The middle was left open if the centers tried to guard players outside.

Offensively, the Suns couldn't consistently hit the 3-point shot if defenses clogged the middle.