Suns Off-season Thread

[AzStevenCal]

The Suns made a mistake by not picking up the option on Jalen Smith. In my mind I can't find a way around it especially since they will use that money on Torrey Craig this coming season.

Anyone who prefers Craig over Smith can raise their hand.

I think the comment that might pertain to work ethic was made by Deandre Ayton.

There is some irony there because Ayton was criticized for playing video games too much.

It was but I've never believed it was his observation, I believe he was passing on something that had been discussed amongst the team. And when DA said it, he wasn't taking a shot at Smith, quite the contrary. He was making the point that Jalen had really turned the corner once he understood how hard he needed to work. Unfortunately, that was after we'd already made the mistake of not extending Stix.

I don't know what happened to Craig. There was a time though when many of us salivated over the possibililty of adding him to the rotation. What a letdown he's been.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I don’t get it either. I feel like there was some info we weren’t privy to.

Maybe but I kind of doubt it. By everything said, everyone really liked the person. We just screwed up following a terrible rookie season for the young man.

In his first season, Jalen (maybe) didn't work hard enough, Jalen didn't get any summer league, Jalen didn't get much of a preseason, Jalen got injured, Jalen got Covid, Jaden stunk it up when we sent him to the G League, Jalen looked lost and confused when we finally gave him time in the big league.

And then, when he did get to play in the next summer league, he rebounded well but still looked lost at times. On the basis of all that information, we made a call we shouldn't have, I guess in anticipation of using that money on a more game ready player than our project. It wasn't until injuries forced us to use him at center that it became clear that Stix had a lot more potential than he'd had previously displayed.

I really hope that management learned a lesson here. If you draft someone you better have one hell of a reason not to offer that 3rd year extension. It sucks you have to make that call prior to the start of the 2nd season, but that's the way it works. There's a reason why almost every team offers that extension automatically. We outsmarted ourselves - with reason, but it was still the wrong call.

 

[Superbone]

Maybe but I kind of doubt it. By everything said, everyone really liked the person. We just screwed up following a terrible rookie season for the young man.

In his first season, Jalen (maybe) didn't work hard enough, Jalen didn't get any summer league, Jalen didn't get much of a preseason, Jalen got injured, Jalen got Covid, Jaden stunk it up when we sent him to the G League, Jalen looked lost and confused when we finally gave him time in the big league.

And then, when he did get to play in the next summer league, he rebounded well but still looked lost at times. On the basis of all that information, we made a call we shouldn't have, I guess in anticipation of using that money on a more game ready player than our project. It wasn't until injuries forced us to use him at center that it became clear that Stix had a lot more potential than he'd had previously displayed.

I really hope that management learned a lesson here. If you draft someone you better have one hell of a reason not to offer that 3rd year extension. It sucks you have to make that call prior to the start of the 2nd season, but that's the way it works. There's a reason why almost every team offers that extension automatically. We outsmarted ourselves - with reason, but it was still the wrong call.

Yeah, you make a lot of sense. Occam's Razor says that's it most likely.

 

[Mainstreet]

Yeah, you make a lot of sense. Occam's Razor says that's it most likely.

Maybe James Jones already told us the answer in an ESPN interview.

He didn't want to "navigate the landmines.”


By Dave King, Bright Side of the Sun:


“It all depends on what your goal is,” said Jones to ESPN. “Devin is great, but there are 50 skeletons tied to that swing for the star.”

Suns GM Jones discounts NBA Draft, prefers only 5-7 names on entire ‘Draft Board’

The Phoenix Suns are a contender now, but won’t be developing the next generation any time soon

www.brightsideofthesun.com

 

[Fumats20]

It was but I've never believed it was his observation, I believe he was passing on something that had been discussed amongst the team. And when DA said it, he wasn't taking a shot at Smith, quite the contrary. He was making the point that Jalen had really turned the corner once he understood how hard he needed to work. Unfortunately, that was after we'd already made the mistake of not extending Stix.

I don't know what happened to Craig. There was a time though when many of us salivated over the possibililty of adding him to the rotation. What a letdown he's been.

But CP3 said the exact opposite. I mean the exact opposite of Smith's work ethic and offered more insight to how hard it is for players to not play like that.

I can get the video of it..even Monty said Smith was always working...Jones said it too....all on video. And then when Smith did play....the Indiana talked about how shocked they were when he left Phoenix early in the hours and showed up to Indiana practice ready to work playing his first game hours later.

So a single Ayton comment is the judge & jury on Smith. Ayton (on video) also said after Smith was drafted was that boy can shoot & likes to put his shoulder in my chest. When was Ayton's comment made? Was it during Smith's run? What all did Ayton say? If it was during Smith's run then it's the same kinda comment Myles Turner said when he told Smith go get that money.

Not being ready enough is a given when you not playing to be ready. Jones said post season when he talk about player skeletons that Smith showed he can play when given the opportunity. But what do fans want because winning comes at a cost...do we play no experience & not win over 15 years of experience who increases winning. NOPE.

 

[Fumats20]

I think the Suns more like Monty dealt the hand he had the way he wanted in order to win. Jones said all the time he was building a 5 X 3 roster. Monty used 5 X 2 some times 5 X 1.75. And he won with that. Whether a 5 X 3 is doable or whether a Jones' post up forward is something Monty will use, it was bound to be casualties with how the roster was built mix with the coaches philosophy...small ball where 4s exclusively act like 3s.

It looks like no matter what Smith actually does he's got a long way to go to remove the asterisk associated with how the Suns dealt with its pick.

And it was reported teams where actively inquiring about trades for Smith the whole time he was at the Suns starting draft night. He found a spot. The league wanted him the Suns could have not declined his option but did...all the while Jones was stating there were teams that wanted Smith.

The easy thing is to blame Smith and keep blaming him. He was blamed still while on another team doing 13/7 in 20 minutes. To go from 0 to 100 in less than 60 seconds is strange to me for a player we have been told over and over is the problem as although we saw a glimpse when the Suns had no choice.

There is a reason companies hire PR firms to get ahead of a story. Once people have heard or seen something for the first-time it's heard to undo thoughts formulated.

 

[Fumats20]

Maybe James Jones already told us the answer in an ESPN interview.

He didn't want to "navigate the landmines.”


By Dave King, Bright Side of the Sun:


“It all depends on what your goal is,” said Jones to ESPN. “Devin is great, but there are 50 skeletons tied to that swing for the star.”

Suns GM Jones discounts NBA Draft, prefers only 5-7 names on entire ‘Draft Board’

The Phoenix Suns are a contender now, but won’t be developing the next generation any time soon

www.brightsideofthesun.com

I don't mean to unbeat a dead horse but when you formulate a thought you have to include more than one single thought without ignoring other thoughts that counter. If I am going to believe a player with his own demons then I gots to consider those thoughts from others...and also listen to a well rounded table of various people connected to the situation. Anybody can cherry pick what they want to support their view (good or bad) but when you factor them all in you get a perspective.

I get it. If I was Monty I would have done the same thing. Until Jones stop giving me vets I'm playing vets over inexperienced players. Every sport know to man wins with experienced players. But for me because I have a little background knowledge on Smith being a Maryland fan I personally believe Smith story hasn't been written in stone yet...there's a little something something there that hasn't been fully explored yet. Two opposing thoughts can co-exist. Being right or wrong don't matter when you see something different than before.

 

[AzStevenCal]

But CP3 said the exact opposite. I mean the exact opposite of Smith's work ethic and offered more insight to how hard it is for players to not play like that.

I can get the video of it..even Monty said Smith was always working...Jones said it too....all on video. And then when Smith did play....the Indiana talked about how shocked they were when he left Phoenix early in the hours and showed up to Indiana practice ready to work playing his first game hours later.

So a single Ayton comment is the judge & jury on Smith. Ayton (on video) also said after Smith was drafted was that boy can shoot & likes to put his shoulder in my chest. When was Ayton's comment made? Was it during Smith's run? What all did Ayton say? If it was during Smith's run then it's the same kinda comment Myles Turner said when he told Smith go get that money.

Not being ready enough is a given when you not playing to be ready. Jones said post season when he talk about player skeletons that Smith showed he can play when given the opportunity. But what do fans want because winning comes at a cost...do we play no experience & not win over 15 years of experience who increases winning. NOPE.

Okay, but perhaps it's no more than this: On the Monday of his Suns career, he wasn't prepared for how hard he needed to work but by Thursday of his Suns career, teammates and coaches were raving about his effort.

 

[Fumats20]

And Smith clearly was not ready to meet the standard of a winning team and later looks like he learned & is learning from that experience for all the world too see...unlike more desired rookies who got freedom to roam who were allowed to take their lumps & bumps on losing team... a team the Suns used to be that had 4 rookies doing the same thing at one time that are now core player. Jones said after that road no more of that...no sir.

 

[Mainstreet]

I don't mean to unbeat a dead horse but when you formulate a thought you have to include more than one single thought without ignoring other thoughts that counter. If I am going to believe a player with his own demons then I gots to consider those thoughts from others...and also listen to a well rounded table of various people connected to the situation. Anybody can cherry pick what they want to support their view (good or bad) but when you factor them all in you get a perspective.

I get it. If I was Monty I would have done the same thing. Until Jones stop giving me vets I'm playing vets over inexperienced players. Every sport know to man wins with experienced players. But for me because I have a little background knowledge on Smith being a Maryland fan I personally believe Smith story hasn't been written in stone yet...there's a little something something there that hasn't been fully explored yet. Two opposing thoughts can co-exist. Being right or wrong don't matter when you see something different than before.

I was offering some comments from James Jones in regard to how he views the draft and young players.

The situation involving Jalen Smith has been discussed ad nauseam. There have been a lot of different perspectives presented.

Personally, I was never comfortable with the interpretation Smith didn't have a strong work ethic.

 

[AzStevenCal]

And Smith clearly was not ready to meet the standard of a winning team and later looks like he learned & is learning from that experience for all the world too see...unlike more desired rookies who got freedom to roam who were allowed to take their lumps & bumps on losing team... a team the Suns used to be that had 4 rookies doing the same thing at one time that are now core player. Jones said after that road no more of that...no sir.

With no investment in college and international scouting plus the fact we sold off our minor league team, our approach of downgrading the Draft is almost the only thing we can do. I put that mostly on Sarver once again being "penny wise, pound foolish" but JJ has made it clear that he believes veterans win games. He's right, but he's wrong if he believes you can't be a veteran laden squad and still invest in youth

If we want to remain competitive we need to commit to scouting all levels of basketball and we need a minor league team. We need to be able to identify and develop young, inexpensive talent. Besides the obvious benefits, acquiring and developing young talent excites the fan base.

 

[Mainstreet]

Minimally, the Suns need to invest in more scouting. Even without a G-League team, this would help.

I'm glad Duane Washington Jr. is on a two-way contract, which gives him a better opportunity to develop without the constraints of a large contract.

 

[Fumats20]

Only thing is is in the NBA drafting is a part of the game. No way around it because eventually your old cycle ends and a new one has to be formed and players have a short shelf life.

 

[Superbone]

Well, every player comes through the draft. It's much tougher to get the best players after they've proven themselves with another team. You've got to take some shots. Otherwise we don't have Book or Bridges for example.

 

[Mainstreet]

Only thing is is in the NBA drafting is a part of the game. No way around it because eventually your old cycle ends and a new one has to be formed and players have a short shelf life.

Will James Jones write the next chapter, will it take another GM when it comes time to rebuild, or can he keep jumping from stone to stone while crossing the stream?

It will be interesting to see if he can adapt when times change. Maybe Jones is limited by the constraints of ownership.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

With no investment in college and international scouting plus the fact we sold off our minor league team, our approach of downgrading the Draft is almost the only thing we can do. I put that mostly on Sarver once again being "penny wise, pound foolish" but JJ has made it clear that he believes veterans win games. He's right, but he's wrong if he believes you can't be a veteran laden squad and still invest in youth

If we want to remain competitive we need to commit to scouting all levels of basketball and we need a minor league team. We need to be able to identify and develop young, inexpensive talent. Besides the obvious benefits, acquiring and developing young talent excites the fan base.

Agreed. Ignoring the draft is just stupid. No further analysis required.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Well, every player comes through the draft. It's much tougher to get the best players after they've proven themselves with another team. You've got to take some shots. Otherwise we don't have Book or Bridges for example.

And they’re cheaper through the draft. When you’ve got a Booker, Ayton, bridges and hopefully cam on extensions you can’t afford many high end free agents so the best opportunity for high end talent is to hit on a couple draft picks. Are they tough to hit on? Of course. But when you land a maxey type player you’ve bolstered your talent without adding a lot of payroll.

 

[Mainstreet]

It looks like Devin Booker is having a good off season.

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[Mainstreet]

Duane Rankin of azcentral appears on the PHNX Suns Podcast. He discusses his recent interview with James Jones.

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[Proximo]

That will be a painful process if it happens. He's not that kind of player. Attempts to force-feed him during his first four seasons have usually gone badly. It's much better for him to be assertive in a secondary role, psychologically ready to punish defenses for focusing their efforts elsewhere.

I really don't care if it's a painful process or not. We need to be better come playoff time, and he is the most talented and has the most ability to improve.

 

[Ronin]

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[Mainstreet]

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Duane Rankin was on a PHNX Suns Podcast yesterday. He said something to the effect James Jones really likes Cam Johnson and thinks he is ready to take the next step. This makes me skeptical the Suns would trade him for Tyler Herro.

 

[Finito]

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I don’t see this making any sense for both teams

 

[GatorAZ]

Well that’s probably a wrap on any trades for a year. At least we got the Book extension in time.

 

[Mainstreet]

Well that’s probably a wrap on any trades for a year. At least we got the Book extension in time.

I'm still hopeful Cam Johnson gets extended. The Suns need to get it done before the start of the regular season though.