Suns Plan to Start Negotiations With JJ

[George O'Brien]

• Colangelo also said Friday that the team is considering negotiating a contract extension this summer for Johnson, entering the last year of his contract.

Republic: Roster will leave Suns winging it

The Colangelos get a lot of criticism, but the timing on this is brilliant. Everyone knows that JJ has to be wondering what's going on and if the Suns see him as part of their future. Giving him a contract extesnion for money similar to Q's would say a heck of lot more than bland reassurances.

At the same time, if would make JJ more valuable in a trade (if necessary) because his contract status would be clear. No one wants to trade for a guy who might leave or get a huge contract offer (remember Boozer). I wouldn't tell JJ that, but it is true.

There is a risk that JJ will fall apart, but also a risk he will have a huge year and cost a lot more next year. I think the risk of him falling apart is low enough that I'd go ahead and give him the extension now. It should go a long way toward reassuring him that the Suns believe in him which would do a lot for his confidence.

 

[Goldfield]

I have to agree, Q gives the suns leverage to offer JJ a lesser contract now. JJ would have a chance to get his security now. And chances are it will be a good deal for both parties...

I would like to see it happen!

 

[Bada0Bing]

This wouldn't just be good for the Suns, it would be good for JJ. Now that we have Q, JJ won't see 40+ minutes per game anymore. He should cash in after his nice season last year. Nash/Q/JJ/Marion and soon Amare all locked up to long term deals. The future looks pretty nice.

 

[Joe Mama]

OK, so let's talk about what is a reasonable extension for JJ. I say anything over a contract starting at $7 million per season is overpaying. That might even be too much.

Joe Mama

 

[elindholm]

I say anything over a contract starting at $7 million per season is overpaying. That might even be too much.

Good grief yes. That's overpaying by a mile. I'm sorry, but there is absolutely no way that Johnson is worth "Erick Dampier money."

Johnson has shown that he is about an average-level starting SG when he's on. When he's off, he's way below average. Based on what they've accomplished so far in their careers, Richardson is the more accomplished player, and look at the contract he just got.

Johnson should get no more than $5 million to start. Knowing the Suns' propensity to overpay their own players as quickly as possible, I'm sure he'll get more. But if it's $6 million or above, I will consider it a serious error.

For heaven's sake, please let him prove something first!

 

[elindholm]

One useful comparison is Corey Maggette, who is a similar player with slightly better overall numbers. Maggette's new contract started at $5.6 million last season.

 

[coloradosun]

Maybe a Q type base contract but load it up with production incentives. If they see that he may come off his game, give him something to shoot for. These incentives should be something that would give him an idea of what he needs to do but they should not be numbers that would indicate he needs to carry the team.

 

[Dan H]

If they sign him to an extension I don't believe he can be traded for a while. That might indicate that Marion is more likely the odd man out.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

One useful comparison is Corey Maggette, who is a similar player with slightly better overall numbers. Maggette's new contract started at $5.6 million last season.

I've said he should get Corey Maggette numbers for months now. Especially when people were talking about how we may have to pay 7-9 million to keep him. If Magette couldn't get a better offer than 5.6 million, unless JJ has an amazing year, he won't either.

When I told my friend about the proposed extension, I mentioned JJ has to be thinking "Oh great, they can now "lock up their assets" so a trade can go down" (the rational for extending Marbury 6 months before trading him). Good to see George noticed that too

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

If they sign him to an extension I don't believe he can be traded for a while. That might indicate that Marion is more likely the odd man out.

December (16th IIRC).

 

[scotsman13]

jj contract will start at around 7 million per year. as a player who has an all round game and and can creat his on shot and hit clutch shots it wont be for anything less.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

jj contract will start at around 7 million per year. as a player who has an all round game and and can creat his on shot and hit clutch shots it wont be for anything less.

If he plays this season the way he played the last 2 months, then I agree.

Who is going to throw a long term deal starting at 7 million to a kid that played good for 2 months? Teams might draft on potential, but they don't break the bank for it.

 

[F-Dog]

I imagine that JJ's contract would pay him somewhere between what Q is making (which is more than $7m/year) and what Ginobili just signed for (which starts at $6.6m).


Since the Suns will be capped out next summer, there's no harm in getting the discussions started right now. Johnson strikes me as someone who will play better when he's secure than when he's hungry.

 

[elindholm]

as a player who has an all round game and and can creat his on shot and hit clutch shots it wont be for anything less.

I thought we were talking about Joe Johnson. I don't recall him hitting any clutch shots. I think it's safe to say that a team with 50+ losses didn't have anyone hit many clutch shots.

Here's another thing to think about. Johnson will (most likely) be the fourth option on offense this season. He might still be a good player, but I don't see how he can put up great numbers. If the Suns are worried about another team giving Johnson a big offer next summer, I don't think they should be. Even if he does look solid all year long, the numbers just won't be there, because he'll be stuck behind three big-time scorers in the pecking order.

If he's lucky, Johnson might post averages of 14 points, 5 assists, and 5 rebounds this season. Maybe his on-court value will be enhanced by the so-called "little things" that don't show up on the stat sheet. But do you think any team is going to offer a $50 million contract (that's six years starting at $6.7 million, for those of you scoring at home) to a swingman who averages 14/5/5? I sure don't. So there's no reason for the Suns to give it to him.

 

[F-Dog]

I thought we were talking about Joe Johnson. I don't recall him hitting any clutch shots.

I remember one at least--at the Rockets, over Yao, on national TV...

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Last year manu averaged

12.8/3.8/4.5

He got a deal starting at 6.6 next year

 

[Joe Mama]

I say anything over a contract starting at $7 million per season is overpaying. That might even be too much.

Good grief yes. That's overpaying by a mile. I'm sorry, but there is absolutely no way that Johnson is worth "Erick Dampier money."

Johnson has shown that he is about an average-level starting SG when he's on. When he's off, he's way below average. Based on what they've accomplished so far in their careers, Richardson is the more accomplished player, and look at the contract he just got.

Johnson should get no more than $5 million to start. Knowing the Suns' propensity to overpay their own players as quickly as possible, I'm sure he'll get more. But if it's $6 million or above, I will consider it a serious error.

For heaven's sake, please let him prove something first!

I guess I would say that if they can get Joe Johnson for a contract starting at under $6 million that would be good. I won't be furious if it's a little bit higher, but it's probably a mistake.

The differences between Dampier and JJ are many. Dampier's advantage is his size. JJ is young, versatile, healthy as a horse, and he has the potential to get even better. IMO we have seen the very best that Erick Dampier will play. Still, I wouldn't be opposed to signing a center like Dampier to a contract of $8-9 million, but it certainly wouldn't go six years. It would be a four-year deal at the longest.

I would agree that when JJ is off he is a below average shooting guard. Of course you can say the same thing about virtually every other shooting guard in the NBA. When he's "on" JJ is much above average. I would consider him a very good shooting guard at that point. He wouldn't be "elite", but he's very good.

If JJ was a restricted free agent this summer I believe he would be getting offers at around $6-7 million for the first year. Richardson is a reasonable comparison, but there are also big differences between these guys. First of all JJ is a better defender, ball handler, and creator. Richardson is a better rebounder. That's about it. Given the choice I would take JJ over Richardson without even giving it a second thought.

One useful comparison is Corey Maggette, who is a similar player with slightly better overall numbers. Maggette's new contract started at $5.6 million last season.

that would be a good comparison except that based on the season in JJ just had versus Corey Maggette's 2002-03 season in JJ would still probably get a little more. Also, it would be difficult to compare last season's free-agent market because players this summer have been getting more money.

Again, I would say a contract starting at around $6 million is good while much more is a mistake. There is also a decent chance that JJ is going to agree to a reasonable extension if he and his agent believe that he wouldn't get as much after a lockout or renegotiation of the CBA.

jj contract will start at around 7 million per year. as a player who has an all round game and and can creat his on shot and hit clutch shots it wont be for anything less.

clutch shots? Hitting one or two clutch shots for a bad team does not make someone a clutch player. This is worse than when people keep saying that Shawn Marion is worth a maximum contract because he is an all-star.

Joe Mama

 

[Bada0Bing]

Didn't Cardinal get a MLE contract? Last season 9.6pts 4.2rbs 1.4ast. It only takes one team. JJ needs to receive an offer slightly above MLE money.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Didn't Cardinal get a MLE contract? Last season 9.6pts 4.2rbs 1.4ast. It only takes one team. JJ needs to receive an offer slightly above MLE money.

If you want to base it off what Cardinal got, than JJ should recieve a contract starting around 10-11 million

 

[George O'Brien]

We need to use the same method of measuring players. Mixing average salary and starting salary numbers is very confusing.

Q has an average salary of $7 million or more, but a starting salary of $5.8 million. A starting salary of $7 million is a contract for $54 million with an average of $9 million. Nash's contract starts at $8.75 but is an average of $10.9.

 

[pokerface]

After seeing what this offseason brought as far as salaries in the NBA it proved one thing...Many members on this board have NO idea how to judge a players worth and are totally oblivious on NBA salary realities.

A fair assumption would be for JJ to get at least what Q got plus a little more. Now isnt Q averaging 6-7 mill per year? So a JJ salary of 7 mill doesnt seem out of the question to me. True he hasnt been totally consistant in his career but he was young and the NBA places the most emphasis on "What have you done for me lately". Lately JJ not only has looked very good but he still looks to have quite an upside to his game. Salary is not only based on whats being done now but future outlook as well.

 

[pokerface]

This is worse than when people keep saying that Shawn Marion is worth a maximum contract because he is an all-star.

Joe Mama

Didnt this offseason teach you anything? If Marion were left up to the open market he probably would have gotten full max instead of near max like he received.

 

[George O'Brien]

Didnt this offseason teach you anything? If Marion were left up to the open market he probably would have gotten full max instead of near max like he received.

Maybe, maybe not. Kenyon Martin got a very big contract because he is an inside guy who plays very good defense. Martin is overrated because he played with Kidd, but he is an inside guy and that matters a lot.

I'm not sure Marion could get that kind of contract, even in the free spending world of this summer. However, I think the notion that Marion is grossly overpaid is also misplaced. He is a little bit overpaid, which is why he is not an extraordinarily attractive player to other teams in trade discussion. That is why it is almost impossible to get equal value in trading him.

 

[pokerface]

Maybe, maybe not. Kenyon Martin got a very big contract because he is an inside guy who plays very good defense. Martin is overrated because he played with Kidd, but he is an inside guy and that matters a lot.

I'm not sure Marion could get that kind of contract, even in the free spending world of this summer. However, I think the notion that Marion is grossly overpaid is also misplaced. He is a little bit overpaid, which is why he is not an extraordinarily attractive player to other teams in trade discussion. That is why it is almost impossible to get equal value in trading him.

I'd put it at 50/50 chance that at that time Marion would have gotten the full max from some team. Anytime a player is considered top 3 to 5 in a particular position then one must consider it a definate possibility that a max offer will be tendered. I'd give it 90% chance that some team would have made an offer to Marion that was within 1 to 2 mill per season of Marion is getting right now. Marion was not only highly productive but considered to have decent upside to his game still.


Many teams like to steal players from other teams without trading their own goods and will "overpay" for the privilage of doing so. We've seen that first hand now plus other teams doing the same. The market is supply and demand and many members of this board fail to take that into account.

 

[sunsfn]

He is a little bit overpaid, which is why he is not an extraordinarily attractive player to other teams in trade discussion. That is why it is almost impossible to get equal value in trading him.

George, You come to more conclusions than anybody who posts here!!

Where did you read or hear that it is almost impossible to get equal value in trading Marion?
The suns are not trying to trade Marion that any of us are aware of.
Do you know of a trade that did not go because of Marions salary?

Quit making things up, just to make another post!