Suns @ Timberwolves Sunday game thread, November 17th, 2024

[Mainstreet]

RW3 would be great but he can't stay healthy. Zubac is a redundancy with Nurk and Plumlee. So I wouldn't even bother there. He might be better at some things but worse at others. Marginal difference, if any, overall.

I have no interest in Holmes. He's lost a step last I saw. If he still had some spring in him then maybe but he doesn't. We should look for different skillsets if they're older.

Portis would be ideal. He can play PF or C. Has legit size, can shoot 3's, be a rim deterrent, and also rebound.

We need someone who is 6'10" or taller that uses their height while also being capable of knocking down 3's well enough to be respected. A young Brook Lopez would be excellent but not all that far fetched either. He was a low post interior bruiser before he changed his style. He went from shooting 14 3pt attempts to 387. He made 2 in the season he shot 14 and made 134 the next year. 14% to 35% on that volume increase is nuts. He was 28 years old and entering his 9th season when he made the change.

It may all depend on the contract and availability, but I'd trade for Zubac and not think twice. He is much, much more than Nurkic and Plumlee, although he is not the shooter we'd all prefer.

We both like Portis. Holmes is a reach, but he hasn't played much. IMO, the Suns need to add at least a couple of players, which would require them to open at least one roster spot. I'm wide open to possibilities.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

@ColdPickleNachos

We need you back in the Suns forum!

I appreciate the shoutout, @Mainstreet

I still lurk. I just haven't had much to add because I basically agree with most of what the Suns board is saying.

Excited about the rookies; less excited about Nurk; hoping the team can stay healthy because they're a lot more promising than last year's squad; wouldn't hate trading for another big man.

Also, my confidence in Booker hasn't wavered.

TL;DR Go Suns!

 

[Mainstreet]

I appreciate the shoutout, @Mainstreet

I still lurk. I just haven't had much to add because I basically agree with most of what the Suns board is saying.

Excited about the rookies; less excited about Nurk; hoping the team can stay healthy because they're a lot more promising than last year's squad; wouldn't hate trading for another big man.

Also, my confidence in Booker hasn't wavered.

TL;DR Go Suns!

Yeah, I happened to see your name on the list of members online and wanted to give you a shout-out as I hadn't seen you around for a while.

Your posts are definitely missed.

 

[GatorAZ]

At least Big Nurk got to 5 points for the first time in 4 games. #progress

 

[Mainstreet]

At least Big Nurk got to 5 points for the first time in 4 games. #progress

Find the Suns a 4/5 and another 4/5 while you are at it.

 

[Hoop Head]

It may all depend on the contract and availability, but I'd trade for Zubac and not think twice. He is much, much more than Nurkic and Plumlee, although he is not the shooter we'd all prefer.

We both like Portis. Holmes is a reach, but he hasn't played much. IMO, the Suns need to add at least a couple of players, which would require them to open at least one roster spot. I'm wide open to possibilities.

I think Zubac is no better than Nurkic. If we swapped them out then a lot of same complaints would persist. Bird in the bush sort of thing. Plus as a divisional rival, he wouldn't be cheap. Cost would outweigh the talent discrepancy, which I believe is small regardless. Definitely not worth a 1st round pick.

A Center who could be available, I'm not sure, is Zack Collins from San Antonio. He'd cost a pick but he could be that young Brook Lopez. He's a stretch big already. A lot depends on where SA sees Wemby long term. You'd think he'll be a Center but he's played a lot of PF. Will Collins be kept with him long term? If not then I'd like to see the Suns inquire. He's due $16.7m this year with 1 more guaranteed at $18m..

A lesser option is Kelly Olynyk in Toronto. He's due $12.8m this year and $13.4 next year. He's not a long term piece in Toronto.

 

[Hoop Head]

At least Big Nurk got to 5 points for the first time in 4 games. #progress

Only had 7 boards tho, dammit.

Apparently he had a heating pack on his back throughout the 4th quarter and that played a big part in his lack of playing time.

 

[JosiahLee]

This team is going nowhere without KD. Period.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think Zubac is no better than Nurkic. If we swapped them out then a lot of same complaints would persist. Bird in the bush sort of thing. Plus as a divisional rival, he wouldn't be cheap. Cost would outweigh the talent discrepancy, which I believe is small regardless. Definitely not worth a 1st round pick.

A Center who could be available, I'm not sure, is Zack Collins from San Antonio. He'd cost a pick but he could be that young Brook Lopez. He's a stretch big already. A lot depends on where SA sees Wemby long term. You'd think he'll be a Center but he's played a lot of PF. Will Collins be kept with him long term? If not then I'd like to see the Suns inquire. He's due $16.7m this year with 1 more guaranteed at $18m..

A lesser option is Kelly Olynyk in Toronto. He's due $12.8m this year and $13.4 next year. He's not a long term piece in Toronto.

We disagree about Zubac. He would definitely give the Suns an interior presence they desperately need and an upgrade at center, but I'm not sure if the Suns have what it takes to get him. It would likely take a first round pick.

Trading Allen is a possibility, but only for a 4/5 that is an upgrade.

The Suns may have to look at trading a lower salaried player for someone in their price range, with perhaps second round pick(s) attached to Okogie or O'Neale. Some team might want them straight up in trade.

I'm not sure Zach Collins would be worth what the Suns would have to give up in a trade. The same would apply to Kelly Olynkk.

The Suns need to look again at veteran free agents, although I'm not sure if there is anyone left.

Maybe there are players available we do not yet know about. Maybe the Suns can get involved in a three team trade?

 

[BirdGangThing]

i think oso is only going to play more and more - eating into both plum and nurk's minutes

 

[Phrazbit]

Amare's nickname was "Stat" and Booker is another stat guy who you will never see hoist up the ball from half-court at the end of quarters.

Obscenely wrong, actual slander.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

He takes more than all but a few guys in the league.

 

[Covert Rain]

Did the Suns get rope-a-doped by Anthony Edwards? Finished the first half with four points, leading me to suppose someone defended him well; then he dropped 20 in the second half. And did they even defend Edwards well, or was he just shooting poorly and biding his time until he heated up?

This isn't the first time Edwards has a sub-par start to a game against the Suns but then dominates at the end of games.

 

[1tinsoldier]

He takes more than all but a few guys in the league.

now let's see the reel of the 200 times in 10 years that he's passed on the shot at the end of quarters.
and started chucking shots when the Suns are blowing out a team and he knows he'll be sitting soon
but that's fluff, and a distraction from the main issue
-- the reason the Suns will be 0 in 65 years if the Booker era/error is extended and we don't adjust

perhaps some brave soul, good with the stats, can post Booker's career success rate with game winning shots and within the final minute of games?
and turnover rate in the final minute?

because from where i've sat for the past decade it clearly looks like we've got a Carmelo Anthony, Russel Westbrook, Allen Iverson, James Harden future ahead. Career scorer's who never really learned how to leverage team play to win in crunch time.

 

[Mainstreet]

Obscenely wrong, actual slander.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

He takes more than all but a few guys in the league.

The right sideline near mid-court seems the best area for Booker to try those half court shots. Many were much further, heaves.

 

[Hoop Head]

now let's see the reel of the 200 times in 10 years that he's passed on the shot at the end of quarters.
and started chucking shots when the Suns are blowing out a team and he knows he'll be sitting soon
but that's fluff, and a distraction from the main issue
-- the reason the Suns will be 0 in 65 years if the Booker era/error is extended and we don't adjust

perhaps some brave soul, good with the stats, can post Booker's career success rate with game winning shots and within the final minute of games?
and turnover rate in the final minute?

because from where i've sat for the past decade it clearly looks like we've got a Carmelo Anthony, Russel Westbrook, Allen Iverson, James Harden future ahead. Career scorer's who never really learned how to leverage team play to win in crunch time.

Why so you can shift the narrative again? Been there, done that. You never accept any evidence that is provided and move to a different inane argument. Like how you blame Booker for the Suns not winning a title, focusing on 00-65, when he's in his 10th year. I guess it's his fault the Barkley Suns didn't win, McDyess went back to Denver, the Cinderella Suns couldn't overcome Boston, and the hipcheck took place.

AI was the 10th most clutch player in league history, btw. Which speaks to how much you know of clutch play. Russ is #29 overall and is actually ahead of Curry.

https://fadeawayworld.net/nba-career-leaders-in-clutch-situations-1-minute-left-shot-to-tie-or-take-a-lead-in-4th-quarter

Remember, you made these claims. You aren't entitled to have someone else back up your theories. If you believe it to be true, back it up. You've already had one claim disproven and rather than admit you were wrong you've moved the narrative entirely.

 

[djm75]

This team is going nowhere without KD. Period.

This team isn’t going anywhere with him either.

 

[JosiahLee]

This team isn’t going anywhere with him either.

They are at least going to the postseason with him. They look awful without him.

 

[leclerc]

OMG big line up and not small ball, AND they come out playing well scoring buckets and defending from the opening play..? These are not my Phoenix Suns!?

 

[mjb21aztd]

Boooooo fell zzz after fun date n with gf

Glad i missed gm baddddd loss especiall book 40 plus

Hope suns do bit better vs magic ughhhh

 

[Hoop Head]

Hmm...did Julius Randle's Suns-killing three-point-shot seem anything like Tim Duncan's in 2008? I'll bet that no one who would answer is capable of ignoring that this wasn't a playoff game. But the startlement factor: were you caught by surprise in any degree like in 2008?

Nothing alike. Randle averages 5 attempts a game from deep and 2 makes. He also created his own shot and wasn't fed for an open look. Absolutely no relation to Duncan's shot from 16 years ago.

Not everything has some historical connection and some suggestions like Randle's 3 is akin to Duncan's is a huge reach. Highlights are available online everywhere now so this can't just be chalked up to box score watching as much as attempting to create a connection out of thin air. If would make as more sense to compare it to Blake Griffin in 2014, because it won't matter after the next game.

 

[Suns_fan69]

L2M Report

official.nba.com

TLR - Correct No Call on the Randle forearm, but they missed that Randle traveled before releasing the shot.

 

[Mainstreet]

L2M Report

official.nba.com

TLR - Correct No Call on the Randle forearm, but they missed that Randle traveled before releasing the shot.

The off-arm was still deemed illegal contact on the correct non-call.

 

[clyde2tw]

L2M Report

official.nba.com

TLR - Correct No Call on the Randle forearm, but they missed that Randle traveled before releasing the shot.

‘Okogie is not dislodged from his defensive position as a result of illegal contact from Randle.’
The contact by Randle is deemed illegal. But Okogie was strong enough to hold his position.

Last Two-Minute Report

From the clip it's clear, Okogie was very close to Randle with perfect legal moves, Randle stepped into JO's direction and pushed with forearm into his body. No way JO could still keep balance there.

 

[Superbone]

‘Okogie is not dislodged from his defensive position as a result of illegal contact from Randle.’
The contact by Randle is deemed illegal. But Okogie was strong enough to hold his position.

In other words, not rewarding selling the call?

 

[1tinsoldier]

i didn't say ai wasn't clutch! i said he and the others were not winners because they were 1on1 in the clutch instead of taking advantage of team ball!

and you know who's not on that list of 30 clutch shooters? Booker, shooting 25% from 3 in the final minute in the past couple of seasons, but i didn't need to dig any deeper because anyone without rose-colored glasses has seen him chuck wild 3pt shots when we only need 1 or 2 to win about a dozen times in recent years

-- and lead historic collapses in clutch playoff games after "Booker's team" had the worst record in the league for a couple of seasons
-- and last season, lead the Suns to the 3rd(?) worst close-out record for any team in NBA history!!!

even Ann Meyers criticized the last half dozen isolation plays last night and Book himself said 3 days ago that he wasn't going to force shots like the old Book anymore

i understand that Book is still the fan favorite and that's fine. Loving basketball doesn't have to be about winning. It can just be about rooting for your favorite player.

but covering your eyes when it comes to obvious flaws in your favorite player (and bullying those who don't) while not hesitating to pick out other scapegoats for losses is hypocritical, to say the least.

if your boy puts the ball in the basket for 44, you're not allowed to admit they blew it in the end. again. and again.